| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 06:56:31
"The Difference Between The Work and The Secret"
http://www.thework.com/newsletter_april07.html
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Sarno-ize it!
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| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 04/29/2007 : 04:58:22
Yes, it is really true that there are four Questions in Byron Katie's book no matter how you turn it around. The more important question is can you control the universe or have it at your beck and call everytime you want a new Lexus?
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Sarno-ize it!
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| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 04/28/2007 : 16:54:10
Did anyone click the link on the BK newsletter that leads to a blog by "Work" folk?
I was just reading it the other day before I saw this thread. Interestingly, a lot of the BKers are also saying that the Abraham work is not in opposition to The Work, and also wondering what the big deal is.
Of course, the Big Deal is sibling rivalry, the most underestimated emotion in the human pantheon of emotions.
In the newsletter Katie or Stephen suggested (leading the witnesses a bit) that readers suggest turnarounds to the phrase "there is a secret." Here is my turnaround: "Is it really true that there are Four Questions?"
That ole SIBLING RIVALRY thing seems to be one of the last ego problems to dissove. I have been around many so-called enlightened people who become vituperative, superior and even quite ugly when faced with a question about other teachers. For example, I used to have a hysterical tape in which Andrew Cohen and Gangaji battle it out like two whiny little kids trying to get Papa's attention.
Sibling rivalry may be the one thing you haven't journaled about, it may be the key to everything! It doesn't necessarily have to be with an actual sibling - it could be a competitor, a co-worker, even your kids... It's the feeling that someone else's existence threatens your source of supply in some way - your supply of approval, importance and love as well as money and food. It's the feeling that there aren't enough nipples, because that's how the phenomenon evolved.
xxx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| floorten |
Posted - 04/28/2007 : 15:45:19
quote:
Originally posted by sonora sky
Nice work, Greg. I like how you focused on the particulars to reveal the bigger picture. The two methods are perhaps more similar than either BK or A-H may want to admit!
Did you get any feedback from the BK board?
ss
SS: not yet -- still waiting for them to okay my post and show it on the blog!
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
| floorten |
Posted - 04/28/2007 : 15:42:32
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate here again: Why should we only question thoughts that bring us suffering? Surely our happy thoughts are just as inaccurate.
This may be the case, but I'm operating from a purely pragmatic point of view. Thoughts which aren't moving us in the wrong direction (ie. towards suffering) aren't causing a problem, so there's no need to undo them. This is the approach that Byron Katie takes too, and she has repeatedly said that it's not a spiritual approach, its purely self-centered and pragmatic.
Also from the point of view of the teachings of Abraham, thoughts which cause us to have good feelings (ie. expressions of love and happiness) are those which identify us with the Source Energy or divine within, and from that point of view are more "accurate" than negative thoughts, pointing as they do to our true divine nature on the non-physical plane.
quote:
And seriously, there is a HUGE difference between "you can have what you want" and "you can want what you have". The first one is legitimization of all desires to acquire. The second is a spiritual challenge to look at how what you have is abundant.
I still see no difference, once you remove the prejudices that have been banged into our head since we were born about how desires are bad for you spiritually, and bad for the world socially.
The statement "you can want what you have" is meaningless to me personally, because "wanting" always indicates that you are not in possession of what you want.
I also find it trite, because it has a veiled assumption behind it that you can (and maybe should) actually stop yourself from wanting things, yet these desires themselves are at the very core of the expansion of human consciousness and experience. They are the positive drives which cause everything to grow and evolve.
However if you interpret as meaning that you should express gratitude and your happiness through your current circumstances, then I would say that there is no disagreement here with the Abraham teachings.
The whole basis of their teachings is that you should strive to see your current circumstances in a positive light and bring yourself to a place of happiness where you are looking forward to the possibilities of the future. Once you are in this place, they say that these possibilities start to manifest themselves in your life with little conscious effort from yourself, and only restricted by your own beliefs about how "possible" it is to receive what is is you have been wanting.
Well, I'm not quite sure I've explained my thoughts very well here, but I gave it a go. I find it often hard to put these kind of metaphysical ideas into words.
--
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 17:27:55
Nice work, Greg. I like how you focused on the particulars to reveal the bigger picture. The two methods are perhaps more similar than either BK or A-H may want to admit!
Did you get any feedback from the BK board?
ss |
| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 17:22:46
quote:
The Work only questions thoughts which are causing suffering to us. Happy thoughts go unquestioned.
I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate here again: Why should we only question thoughts that bring us suffering? Surely our happy thoughts are just as inaccurate.
And seriously, there is a HUGE difference between "you can have what you want" and "you can want what you have". The first one is legitimization of all desires to acquire. The second is a spiritual challenge to look at how what you have is abundant.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| floorten |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 12:44:10
Sonora Sky: I quite agree with everything you said! You've inspired me to write something myself on the topic. I posted this to the Byron Katie board:
I see no contradiction between the Work and the Secret. The contradictions that people are seeing here seem to me to arise from an incomplete understanding of the teachings of Abraham-Hicks, for which the Secret film was intended as an accessible, but incomplete introduction.
Let me comment on those quotes from Stephen and add my understanding of Abraham teachings:
The Secret: “You can have whatever you want.”
The Work: “You can want whatever you have.”
Me: Where's the contradiction here? They're both saying that having, wanting, acceptance and happiness occur together. Are we going to disagree over the semantics of which one comes "first"? Abraham teaches that no good emotions or results ever come of wanting in a negative sense (ie. yearning, longing, desperately wanting). The Work agrees and gives us tools to question the wanting.
The Secret: “My will be done. I know what’s best for me.”
The Work: “Thy will be done (=Thy will is done). What’s best for me is what actually happens.” (In A Thousand Names for Joy, Katie says, “God’s will and your will are the same, whether you notice it or not.”)
Me: Abraham also teaches that each person is an outgrowth of Source Energy (or "God"). It is impossible for you to want something that God doesn't want for you too. Again, they're in agreement, just disagreeing about who comes "first" - the whole or the part (which also contains the whole within it entirely). This difference is again just an illusion of time and semantics.
The Secret: “You can control your thoughts.”
The Work: “You are not the thinker. It’s not possible to suppress your stressful thoughts. But when you question them, they let go of you.”
Me: What is it then that questions the thoughts? If you couldn't "control" your thoughts then there'd be no questioning and no answering and therefore no Work. It's the same part of you that puts you thoughts to Work as that can also focus thoughts for creative purposes. Again, they're both saying the same thing, whether we label what happens "control", "focus" or just "happenings".
The Secret: “You can manifest your positive thoughts as reality.”
The Work: “Reality already is the best thing that could be manifested. When you realize this, you’re home free.”
Me: Abraham also teaches that where we are now is perfect for us, because it is a perfect manifestation according to the law of attraction. They would not have us suffer less (or more) than we do, because they understand that there is value in the experience of contrast that causes the whole universe to expand, evolve and become an ever greater expression of Source Energy (or God)... greater in its own eyes, that is. There's no absolute greater here. Abraham also teaches that resisting reality results in negative feelings. The Work only questions thoughts which are causing suffering to us. Happy thoughts go unquestioned. Likewise Abraham guides us towards finding ever happier ways of interpreting reality, to bring us closer to Source, and it is their knowing that when we are closer to Source that wellness will flow into our lives naturally. Again, I can't see a contradiction.
Peace,
Greg
--
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 12:43:19
floorten, I agree. I think that the nuances of each 'way' are ignored in favor of a black-and-white, one-versus-the-other stance. Possible points of intersection between the two and pearls of wisdom in each are missed. Are the two ways inherently incompatable with one another, or might portions of each be combined to arrive at a new way of thinking? I can love 'what is' while still using my powers of intention to achieve future goals. This combo seems sweeter to me.
ss |
| floorten |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 03:00:32
Have read this... can't help thinking many people posting there have:
a) totally missed the main point of the Secret/Abraham-Hicks teachings, and therefore missed all the parallels with "The Work"
b) are more interested in winning the battle of "my system vs your system" than in what either of them actually say
"The Work is better than The Secret".... can you absolutely know that to be true? ;-)
--
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
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