| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Penny |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 17:51:32
I've been thinking about sleep, TMS, and the role of our subconscious: I wonder, if we become sleepless and suffer for restless sleep OR insomnia--given what we know about the cause of TMS--are sleep problems caused b/c if we were to sleep, we actually would have to deal with our subconscious through our dreams?
If I have a really bad dream and wake up, I am WIDE awake, like there is no way I'm going back to sleep for fear of having to deal with whatever monster was the mind. The times my TMS has been worst have aligned with sleep problems too.
I have found myself sleeping awfully this week (no sh7t Sherlock)! I awake in p-word, all over. Before sleep I'm fine, but when asleep OUCH. I find this strange and wonder if Sarno has talked about sleep problems and the role of subconscious.
The worst anxiety pattern I ever experienced was sudden and awoke me out of my sleep. I was asleep then awoke to utter fight-or-flight. Calmed myself down, fell back asleep and the same thing happened. I won't go into more detail as it's not healthy to talk about, but it's like my body did not want me to sleep for fear of what my mind would have to experience.
Hmm, just wondering about the role of sleep in TMS. For me, the less sleep I have, the more TMS gremlin plays.
>|< Penny
PS, this was a good distraction from dealing with my emotions, wasn't it? LOL! |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 04/28/2007 : 07:35:57
Yeah...
I've posted about this sleep thing before. It does seem to be tied in with TMS for me - also because my TMS was FMS and CFS (and bad back) among other things. And so I certainly noticed the sleep thing.
And yes, I have been waking up with anxiety and strange dreams since my divorce. I tried writing them down. It became too much. I was already dealing with so much in my conscious life.
I just woke up from a doozy of a dream, and have written it down. I'm too tired to decipher it, though, and I think I will try to go back to sleep, as I just flew in last night from outa town.
I hope when I wake up you guys will have posted some more on all this and figured it all out.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| wharrison |
Posted - 04/28/2007 : 05:27:03
I am going through a similar experience. I had a lower back flare up a few weeks ago and I am recovering. As long as I am moving, I am more or less pain free. I have numbness/weakness in my leg, but no pain.
I go to sleep for 4 hours and wake up in pain and can't sleep. (the pain went from lower back to hip to thigh...doesn't that sound like a TMS stunt?) I am hoping I will soon get back to good sleep.
I would think if I had a struct problem I would be in pain constantly?
Thanks for the good post.
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| Penny |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 16:04:40
quote:
Originally posted by entheogens
Now about sleep...why must we conclude that there is necessarily a DIRECT connection between sleep and TMS? After all, if insomnia took place to protect our "ego" from the unconscious material, then why would dreams be cloaked in symbols that we often cant decipher?
Hmm, interesting thoughts. I wonder, is our ego ONLY active when we are awake/conscious? Since we only use 15% of our brains, there must be another purpose for dreams beyond conscious understanding of symbols etc.
I also wonder about Fibromyalgia and the fact that most people with FMS have a cycle of sleeplessness or deep-sleep deprivation that intensify pain. We cannot argue that the body restores/balances itself during sleep. Sleep studies have shown that people with FMS do not get deep stage 4 sleep (also called restorative sleep) that is needed for optimal body/brain performance, and that this sleep problem perpetuates the physical problem. I know better with TMS knowledge, to accept this completely, but having gone thru and personally recovered from FMS I can say my FMS was worse when I didn't sleep.
My grandfather was involved in secretive studies in the 40s in England. He was often given stimulating drugs to keep him awake for days at a time so the doctors and scientists could study his reactions. Pain and dementia often result from massive sleep deprivation, even in people who are not naturally psychosomatic or TMS prone. Outside of studies, the question for me becomes that of chicken and egg. Does one have TMS enhanced by lack of deep sleep OR does the FMS/TMS cause the sleep problem.
I guess it doesn't really matter, but I find this very interesting.
>|< Penny |
| entheogens |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:20:45
I prefer to look at these questions from an evolutionary point of view. For example, what evolutionary purpose could TMS have played?
There are several possibilities. The first one is social. If you live in a community and express anger, that could be detrimental to the group. However, it also occurs to me that TMS causes pain/injury to an individual and that would also be detrimental to the group. The only other purpose I can see that it would have played in, say, a hunter-gatherer society is too weed out the weak.
Then again, perhaps, TMS is a MODERN anomaly, therefore cannot be thought of in terms of evolution. Perhaps it is ineed a sickness of civilization in that we are trained to repress anger. That seems the most logical choice.
Now about sleep...why must we conclude that there is necessarily a DIRECT connection between sleep and TMS? After all, if insomnia took place to protect our "ego" from the unconscious material, then why would dreams be cloaked in symbols that we often cant decipher?
In other words, it could be argued that some mechanism (other than TMS) is already cacheing the raw unconscious material from us already.
You see, I have a problem with the reductionism...that there is a DIRECT link between TMS and insomnia. Why couldnt it rather be that
the repressed energy (anger) causes the sympathetic system to be over-active? Also we know that depression brings on insomnia and I suspect that a lot of TMS people are depressed.
These are, of course, just speculations on my part and I cannot assertively defend any of it. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 09:21:45
Dreams are your unconscious mind communicating with you, but the message is cryptic and you have to think about it for awhile before unraveling thier meanings. Paying attention to your dreams will give your immense insight but you have to look beyond the immediate images that you see if you want a richer interpretation. For example, you may have a dream about sex and the dream may not be about sex at all....
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| electraglideman |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 09:08:24
I've had bad, stupid, and crasy dreams most of my adult life. The problem is I'll wake up and think damn what a dream but within a few seconds I can't remember what the dream was about.
I should keep a pen and pad handy on the night stand and immediately write it down before I forget it. This could probably be a big help exploring the subconscious. |
| skizzik |
Posted - 04/27/2007 : 08:10:39
I haven't heard him talk of insomnia directly, but since insomnia is a symptom of anxiety, then it must be a "manifistation" of TMS and therefore cured the same way.
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| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 21:24:00
Penny,
This is a very good topic..I have often wondered the same thing..I have bouts of insomnia which correspond to a variety of things from increased stress to increased neuro symptoms or pain..My dreams also correspond to what is currently going on and I have felt upon awakening that I actually did some real healing work while asleep..
Lita,
I have the same memory as you regarding someone in the TMS field saying that our unconscious is very active when asleep..In fact, even my TMS therapist told me that..I was questioning why the pain, when the TMS is acute wakes me in the night..
Sensei,
What you said was incredibly helpful and insightful..It helped me too..
Thanks to you all,
Karen |
| sensei adam rostocki |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 18:39:09
When we sleep, the subconscious/unconscious (depending on school of thought)has a chance to cut loose and free itself from the mechanisms it uses to prevent the conscious mind from discovering all its nasty little secrets. Repressed desires, thoughts, feelings, fears, and issues have a way of forcing themselves into our dreams either directly or symbolically. Sometimes a dream can be helpful in uncovering some of the causative issues behind TMS and other psychological pain syndromes. Often, the real message in the dream is too cryptic and might only be explained through therapy involving dream analysis. Sleep deprivation is often not a coincidental part of TMS. The subconscious mind knows the repressed issues are bubbling forth at every opportunity and also understands that in sleep, they might actually succeed in gaining some form of consciousness. The result is a subconscious fear of sleep based upon the possibility of coming to terms with the most painful of all hidden psychological phenomenon.
CURE-BACK-PAIN(dot)ORG |
| LitaM |
Posted - 04/26/2007 : 17:57:18
Hi,
I read in one of my TMS books, not sure which one, Sarno or the other authors, who said that our unconcious mind is very active while asleep.
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