| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| chrisb89 |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 22:30:03
I've had TMS all over my back but primarily in my upper back, neck and shoulders for the past 6 months. I learned and read about TMS for the past 2 months now and have steadily improved. Finally this past week I felt I had pretty much conquered it and was 95% better.
Suddenly (about 30 minutes ago) just getting up from the toilet I suddenly felt my lower back spasm worse than anything I've ever felt in my life!! This pain is excruciating and every movement hurts like crazy! I have never felt the pain anything even close like this before - it is seriously intense (and it's in a spot where I've never had it before).
Part of me hopes this is the end of TMS (it's one last try). But part of me is afraid it is a real injury, or that even if it is TMS I am doomed because this pain is so intense I can't ignore it. With the other stuff I could at least attempt to go on my day (even if it hurt) with this one there is no way I can leave the apartment.
Any advice? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| weatherman |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 20:58:24
I regularly ski, hike up mountains and mountain bike. Yet my worst lower back pain ever came from putting on a pair of pants. Now I realize that was total nonsense - might have been hard to believe at the time (I was ignorant then).
Moral - the intensity of the pain has no relation to the severity of the "injury" (which I would say you don't have to begin with).
Weatherman |
| art |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 14:06:46
quote:
The worst pain I ever felt in my life were back spasms that I now realize was TMS. I literally could not move without feeling excruciating pain. My wife had to literally carry me upstairs to bed.
I've had maybe half a dozen episodes like this. The worst started one Christmas day maybe ten years ago..I was effectively paralyzed for days...The only way I could eat was on all fours, like a dog. I kid you not. I was in hell...I now realize it was all brought on by my unconscious rage at having to eat Christmas dinner at my in-laws house...
Yikes. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 14:02:35
quote:
Originally posted by chrisb89
I've read that sometimes right before people get completely better there is one last episode of extreme pain.
The patterns are so diverse that is it hard to make a blanket statement, but yes the pain can increase as you get closer to recovery as the brain's last ditch effort to keep you distracted. Read the story of Helen in Dr. Sarno's books at the classic example he uses.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 12:47:22
The worst pain I ever felt in my life were back spasms that I now realize was TMS. I literally could not move without feeling excruciating pain. My wife had to literally carry me upstairs to bed.
In fact the spasms were brought on by a visit to a new chiropractor who took X-Rays and showed me how "messed up" my spine was and that he would fix it through a series of adjustments. I went home feeling a bit better only to get the spasms when attempting to get up out of a chair.
You have to stay the course despite the pain. You can't let TMS win the battle. You must ignore the pain as best as you can, keep telling yourself that you know it is psychological, and explore the rage within. Take strong pain killers if you need them.
Using ice or heat reinforces the feeling that it is a structural problem, even if it helps with pain relief. It is the unconscious mind you are worried about here, not the conscious self. No matter how much you tell yourself the ice is only to relieve pain, unconsciously you are letting TMS win the battle. It's not a matter of being a purist. It's a matter of believing in TMS or not. If you believe, then you must stop physical treatments. |
| art |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 12:08:23
quote:
I can't see that icing would be counter-productive as long as Chris addresses the root of the problem at some point
Nothing wrong with not being a purist, but best to understand that Sarno believes physical treatments do interfere with recover, or at least can. Icing, heat, massage, all can serve to bring the focus away from the mind and toward the body, which is of course the wrong approach.
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| Gemma_Louise |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 12:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by Shawnsmith
I am a highly sensitive person. I am acutely aware how others react to me and observe facial exrpessions or inflections in their voices when I am speaking with them. Based on what I see and hear and tell myself a story about how they feel about me and sometimes it really hurts on the inside. A lot of this is low self esteem and a reflection of how I see myself.
I totally saw myself in that quote as well. Ever since being a child I have scrutinsed peoples reactions to me - facial expressions, tone of voice, the lot! I over analyse everything and probably misinterpret a lot of things by putting a negative spin on them. I convince myself that people don't like me and this just makes me feel awful inside. I find it hard to just take things at face value and move on. I guess the key word here is "paranoia". It's so ingrained in me, that it's very hard to not over-analyse. I have no idea why I do it or where it stems from. |
| Penny |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 11:31:58
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Now allow me to talk about myself for a minute. I am a highly sensitive person. I am acutely aware how others react to me and observe facial exrpessions or inflections in their voices when I am speaking with them. Based on what I see and hear and tell myself a story about how they feel about me and sometimes it really hurts on the inside. A lot of this is low self esteem and a reflection of how I see myself.
(((((((((Shawn))))))))), When I read this I was reminded that I see so much of myself in you. I do exactly the same thing ... I remember everyone's reactions and feel personally responsible for any ill-will I inadvertently create. It's so awful, but I am realizing I am ONLY human and that it's time I start allowing myself to live in my beautiful imperfections. You are so brave and thoughtful and sensitive and it is EXACTLY because of your good nature that you have been able to help so many of us here and ME! Thank you for being exactly the way you are!
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
| Penny |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 11:25:04
quote:
Originally posted by chrisb89
I remember Sarno in one of his books (I think TDM but I've read all three) talks about someone who had lower back pain, but kept running. Then one day he woke up in the middle of the night with terrible upper back pain (which he had never had before). This signalled to him that he had almost defeated it and a few days later he beat it all.
So am I right to think that this episode might signal the end? I'm holding out hope, but I don't want false hope.
It could be the last hooray. If I were you, I would run anyway, even if it hurts ... RETRAIN YOUR BRAIN that even though you are hurting you are not going to stop doing the things you CHOOSE to do ... no pain is gonna stop you! Talk to yourself, tell the pain off! If the pain goes somewhere else, that is symptom imperative and I believe that is a good sign. I get that too and it usually means I've hit on some things that are upsetting my applecart.
Set a reward for yourself after you do the thing your brain tries to prevent (running). For me my therapy appt is the worst; I reward myself with Starbucks afterwards. It's just a little thing, but it helps me get to the next point.
Hang in there!
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." The Great and Powerful Oz |
| Shary |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 10:31:29
Chris, I think it's possible your acute pain is a TMS last gasp, but do be aware that it could come back if you don't do the necessary mental work. I've had a number of minor twinges in weird places lately; i.e., GI tract, urinary system, unexplained wrist pain, etc. I've gotten to where I just smile and think to myself: TMS, is that the best you can do? And these twinges do go away within a few hours. However, I've done a LOT of psychological digging over the past few months, including some significant attitude/opinion modifications. Overall, I think it's finally beginning to pay off. |
| chrisb89 |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 09:56:37
Thanks for all the replies. The pain is 80% better this morning (I didn't sleep well and took off work but am up now). The encouraging thing is my "normal TMS area" which had been about 95% improved is now pretty much 100% pain free.
As much as this felt like a setback since I felt I was almost over the hump, is there any chance this is a good thing? I've read that sometimes right before people get completely better there is one last episode of extreme pain. It still hurts more than I have the past few weeks and I can't imagine going for a run today (which I had been doing 5 times a week with almost no pain).
I remember Sarno in one of his books (I think TDM but I've read all three) talks about someone who had lower back pain, but kept running. Then one day he woke up in the middle of the night with terrible upper back pain (which he had never had before). This signalled to him that he had almost defeated it and a few days later he beat it all.
So am I right to think that this episode might signal the end? I'm holding out hope, but I don't want false hope. |
| Shary |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 09:02:59
Art, ice did help me through some excruciating pain, which is why I recommended it to Chris. Although the cause is psychological, the pain itself is physical and the ice might help relax spasming muscles. There's always the possibility that it's a placebo effect, but who cares if it helps him over the rough edges? I can't see that icing would be counter-productive as long as Chris addresses the root of the problem at some point.
Admittedly I'm not a Sarno purist. I feel that for some people, like me, who have had frequent acute episodes of pain, Sarno's approach can be a little too simplistic. In my own treatment I've incorporated other modalities along with Sarno's basic methods. I'm about 80 percent better now than I was a month ago and continuing to improve much more rapidly. |
| art |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 08:23:02
TMS requires commitment. Icing would not strictly speaking be recommended, or even loosely speaking for that matter, though at times I've fudged a bit...
Standing up is not something that would cause injury. Your back is much stronger than that. I've had extremely intense back spasms, of just the type you're talking about...Many of us have. Think psychologically, continue to do the TMS work. Continue to challenge the pain. This too shall pass. |
| Shary |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 08:17:15
Chris, so sorry you're in such pain.
Regarding my own experience, I'd say, give yourself permission to take a sabbatical. In other words, WHY do you have to leave the apartment? WHY do you have to go on with your life right now? The world won't come to an end if you don't. Postpone everything for a few days, find a comfortable position, and ice your back for 10 minutes at a time, meanwhile occupying your mind with a something ELSE. Sarno suggests a strong pain reliever during acute episodes but I find that a muscle relaxant works better. After the pain lets up a little, try some light stretches but go easy and don't force it.
The main thing is don't worry about it! To a large extent, TMS is fear-driven. You'll get better faster if you relax and just roll with the punches. When you are able to, make a commitment to spend some time with your inner self. Do some journaling to try to get to the cause of your physical pain. I think sometimes people get a lot better before they ferret out the real problems, then they later have a relapse. Hope this helps. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 06:09:53
chrisb89
The strange thing about TMS pain attacks is that they, at times, seemingly come out of nowhere. There is no injury or any huge emotional experience close to the time of the attack. It is another trick of the brain to throw you off and keep you involved in the physical. But the pain, in fact, is not coming out of nowhere and there is something going on in your unconscious which, of course, you are unware of.
I know it is damn hard to think psycologically during those times, but it is crucial to set down and ask yourself the question "what is taking place inside of me that the pain wants me to avoid?" Think about some of the personality traits mentioned in Dr. Sarno's books. Think about how you were brought up and your childhood and adolescent experiences. Think about some of your current life stressors (nagging spouce, bratty kids, crappy boss, bills, ailing parents, etc). As Dr. Sarno tells us, we have to think our way out of TMS and the pain is there to try to stop that from happening.
Now allow me to talk about myself for a minute. I am a highly sensitive person. I am acutely aware how others react to me and observe facial exrpessions or inflections in their voices when I am speaking with them. Based on what I see and hear and tell myself a story about how they feel about me and sometimes it really hurts on the inside. A lot of this is low self esteem and a reflection of how I see myself.
Having said that, I too had a difficult night last night. Without going into the gory details suffice it to say that I just got back from a new class I started and introducing myself to a number of new people. I think that my inward anxiety of how they responded to me may have contributed to some of my pain after I got into bed last night.
It seems strange that such physical symptoms would manifest over something so seemingly trivial, but this is an example of the unconscious mind having dominance, with regards to decision making, over the conscious mind. Something inside me is seeking to protect me from hurt, emotional pain or rage so the physcial symptoms manifest as a distraction. I have, over the course of my life, developed a pattern of thinking about myself and it has not always been flattering. I tend to drive people away with acidic remarks as I don't feel they will like me for who I am. Or I exxagerate what I do in life making me appear more than what I am. Again, this is a self esteem issue as well as projecting my own feelings about myself unto others and then placing the blame on them. Anything to get me to stop looking inwardly.
I hope this all makes sense.
*************
Sarno-ize it!
************* |
| Woodchuck |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 23:03:14
quote:
Originally posted by chrisb89
I've had TMS all over my back but primarily in my upper back, neck and shoulders for the past 6 months. I learned and read about TMS for the past 2 months now and have steadily improved. Finally this past week I felt I had pretty much conquered it and was 95% better.
Suddenly (about 30 minutes ago) just getting up from the toilet I suddenly felt my lower back spasm worse than anything I've ever felt in my life!! This pain is excruciating and every movement hurts like crazy! I have never felt the pain anything even close like this before - it is seriously intense (and it's in a spot where I've never had it before).
Part of me hopes this is the end of TMS (it's one last try). But part of me is afraid it is a real injury, or that even if it is TMS I am doomed because this pain is so intense I can't ignore it. With the other stuff I could at least attempt to go on my day (even if it hurt) with this one there is no way I can leave the apartment.
Any advice?
Ouch! Sorry to hear about the pain. I wouldn't think it is a real injury since apparently it just started hurting when you got up. It does remind me of a strange episode I had about 10 years ago before I had heard of TMS. Maybe this is similar, maybe not. But this is what happened to me, SUDDENLY. I got up one morning with an intense back pain on the left side (the full upper left quadrant of my back and into my chest). It was so bad that I could only take very shallow breaths without intense pain and I had to keep my back very straight. I decided to drive to work and hopefully it would go away. It was worse when I got to work. I did consider it might be a heart problem, but something told me it was muscles. I had a chiropractor at the time and I left work to see him. He used his normal massaging and electrode methods and very quickly the muscles began to relax. He said it was a muscle cramp like a 'charlie horse' in your calf where you jump out of bed, straighten your leg and walk the pain away? But, since it was in my back, there was no way I could easily stretch out the muscles to stop the cramp on my own. My back was very sore the following day, but I never had an episode like that ever again. And I've had heart tests along the way since then, so that was ruled out So, maybe it IS a muscle cramp you have and maybe it is caused by TMS, but does it have to be? I would try to alternate hot and cold and try to gently stretch the lower back muscles and see if I could get some at least temporary relief if it is that intense and worry about if it is TMS later. Maybe at the same time even yell at the muscles to relax, as in talking to the unconscious mind that you won't put up with the BS! Hope this helps and I don't know what else to suggest. I'm no veteran on TMS, but it is late at night and I'll be a first responder. Hopefully someone more experienced will reply soon with better advice and correct me if I gave bad advice. Good luck and hope the pain stops soon!
Woodchuck |
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