| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 14:21:22
Hello
I'm new to the forum, having discovered Dr Sarno's books about a month ago and this website today!
From reading Healing Backpain and various reviews and websites, I feel sure that I have TMS in the form of low back pain and sciatica.
I've come to this conclusion through thinking and writing about my situation when my pain started 42 years ago and the facts that it a) wasn't much helped by a laminectomy in 1984 and b) that I have had periods when I have been completely and mysteriously (until now!)painfree, plus my personality 'fits'....but after three weeks of intensive reading and writing and uncovering all sorts of 'unacceptable' emotions, my pain seems to be, if anything, worse, except for short periods when the writing has made me cry - something that has always seemed to relieve my pain temporarily.
I have two queries -
1) I normally manage to live a pretty active and 'normal' life mainly by thinking about my pain as little as possible and telling it that I have more interesting things to think about and would it mind piping down! I'm wondering whether I might be simply more AWARE of my pain because of focusing on it so much in the past few weeks?
2) Is it at all likely that the fact that my pain started so long ago will mean that it will take longer to get rid of?
I am in Wales, UK, so I don't have access to any doctors who could definitely diagnose TMS - previous diagnoses, about 17 years ago were 'scarring to the nerve roots' (by a consultant) or chronic severe sacro-iliac strain (by an osteopath with a very good reputation but the consultant said there was no such thing!). So I would very much appreciate any advice or encouragement as I'm feeling a little disappointed after reading reviews of Dr Sarno's books in which one reviewer after another recorded instant pain relief!
With many thanks in advance! |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 09:55:34
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
I've now had a full week of virtually no pain!
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
I'm dying to add it to the list on the TMS wiki
Yeah, I LOVE threads like this one. Roxygirl's and DanNord's come to mind--people who were really scared but who got support in a specific thread and you can watch how their fear turns to excitement and elation.
In a couple of years, we can start going through our favorite success stories and looking for early posts by their authors to see if we can find threads like that to add to the specific symptoms and diagnosis pages right after the actual success story post. To anyone who is reading this and would like to help, we would gratefully appreciate your help. You can click here to contact us or can come to the Wiki tour and we will show you how to add the suggestion yourself!
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5693
I think that "before" and "after" posts like that could be incredibly helpful to people who haven't yet reached their own success story. There is something very powerful about reading the story of someone else who is just as doubtful and scared as you are and then seeing how their life was transformed.
Forest
tmswiki.org |
| pandamonium |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 07:12:30
Well done Flutterby, that journey alone would flummox a lot of people even without back pain.
I agree with your comment about now having a "tool" for dealing with the pain, that is what I also found, and I accepted that even if that was the best it ever got, it was still a million miles better than having pain with no hope.
Panda
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 07:07:03
Wow, flutterby, that's fantastic! I think that will be a very inspiring post for others. I'm dying to add it to the list on the TMS wiki, but I'll hang on until you're ready to post your success story. Don't forget to include a link to this thread when you do.
quote:
I purposely 'lounged' in a shockingly dreadful posture on my daughter's rather soft and slippery leather sofa - and still no pain!
 Yes, I often do that - deliberately rebelling against the "bad posture will result in pain" idea and proving to myself that it has nothing to do with pain!
Hilary N |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 17:20:08
Hi all - a little update
I've now had a full week of virtually no pain! Most of the time my whole back area feels relaxed in a way that I can't remember having experienced before. When I get up from a long spell of sitting I at least expect a certain 'creakiness' initially and it's quite a shock to find it's gone!
I am very grateful to Peg for drawing my attention to the 'conditioning' aspect and I can see a clear link between the little, VERY minor twinges I've had this week and the fact that they were associated with times I would expect to be in a lot of pain. And that makes it easier to deal with them quickly, talking to my brain and switching the focus and preventing the pain from building up as it normally would. It's like keeping one step ahead of it, or even half a step, anything as long as I'm in charge of the situation and not my pain!
As I wrote on another post last night, my back has been thoroughly put to the test this week!
For the past three years my family have all come to me for Christmas as I found travelling down to Kent to my daughter's just too difficult and had to spend most of Christmas 'recovering'!
So I was just a teeny-weeny bit nervous when my daugher rang me early on Thursday morning asking if it would be possible for me to come down to Tunbridge Wells asap as her husband was in hospital, having fallen on concrete whilst playing football the previous evening, hitting his head and knocking himself out and bleeding from his ear. The really worrying thing was that she'd just heard that he was going to be 'blue-lighted' up to King's College Hospital, London and she needed someone to look after her younger son (9) while she and her twelve year old went up to London. (The nine-year-old has multiple food allergies and asthma and she didn't want to leave him with anyone else).
For me this involved packing (which I always find difficult from the point of view of my back) and travelling on three trains and a taxi. I was in such a rush and had no idea how long I would need to stay that I packed far too much and ended up with a lot of luggage! As luck would have it, when I changed trains at Newport I had to cross over the bridge - lots of steps! - and the taxi driver in London didn't offer to help heave my luggage up into the cab. But I managed! Tunbridge Wells station also has a lot of steps and I have normally waited for my son-in-law to help me in the past. But I flew up them and was fine.
What I didn't expect was the change of plan which meant that the four of us all went to London again (after a quick cup of tea) and didn't get back till very late in the evening - a further two trains in each direction, though without luggage this time, but with a lot of standing around on draughty stations. I have always found train seats very bad for my back, particularly if the train is crowded (as they all were) and I can't shift my position so all in all, it was quite a challenge.
But still no pain and I wondered whether the adrenalin rush of the whole situation was something to do with it. But on Friday we eventually heard that all the scans were clear and I became the sort of 'anchor-person' for taking phonecalls and passing on messages about getting my son-in-law home. And while I waited by the phone, I purposely 'lounged' in a shockingly dreadful posture on my daughter's rather soft and slippery leather sofa - and still no pain!
The only slight 'threat', more of a tightening up really, came when we were standing in the queue at Sainsbury's in the evening, but I know what that's all about and talked myself out of it.
Three more trains and lots of hauling my luggage up and down steps yesterday and absolutely NO ILL-EFFECTS! If that's not enough to convince me that I have a perfectly strong back, nothing will be!
The old leg-pain tried to make its presence felt for a little while this morning but I put it down to a bit of pressure to 'catch up' with all the things I 'should' have been doing during the three days I was away, did some journaling - and it soon took itself off!
I'm not posting this on the Success Stories forum because it's only been one week and I won't be at all surprised if the pain hasn't completely given up yet. But the great thing, the WONDERFUL thing, is that I now feel I have the tools to deal with it if it rears its ugly head again! And, thinking of all the money I've spent in the past on every conceivable 'alternative' therapy under the sun, this hasn't cost me a penny because I've found all the information in books from the library and from this wonderful website and all the links from it.
So I would like to thank all those who have helped and encouraged me and I hope that my long post will be an encouragement to others who are just starting out on their journey of discovery that they really much more fit and healthy than they have been led to believe!
THANK YOU!
PS Another thing that has made a difference is what I read in 'The Divided Mind' about 'calendar-watching' and for that reason, I'm not sure how long it has taken me to reach this point; but for those who are new to this process, it wasn't as quick as I had inferred from the books, but it has certainly been less than a month! Not bad in comparison to the 42-year duration of my 'back problems'! |
| Peg |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 05:32:52
Hi Flutterby,
>"I expect it's partly that I haven't undone the conditioning yet but also I have some ethical 'issues' around the teaching that I haven't found a way to resolve yet, which I'm sure accounts for some of it."
I think you're probably right. I've had similar experience.
That is amazing that you used your mind in such a powerful way with your dental work.
>"On the other hand, sometimes embarrassingly, I seem to have a low tear threshold and I have often found that a 'good cry' magically stops all pain instantly for a while. I'd be very interested to know whether anyone else has experienced this?"
You do have a way of wording things. A low tear threshold, I like that. I've experienced the same thing. Sometimes I wonder if the major suppressed emotion for me is sadness, rather than anger. Although I can think of things in my past that were
certainly anger generating.
Best,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 17:31:11
I really appreciate your encouragement, Peg!
This afternoon/evening hasn't been as good as previously, though not as bad as usual on a Wednesday and it's much improved now. I expect it's partly that I haven't undone the conditioning yet but also I have some ethical 'issues' around the teaching that I haven't found a way to resolve yet, which I'm sure accounts for some of it.
As for my pain threshold - yes, I do think I have a pretty high one. I used to have all my dental work done without an injection as they made me pass out which frightened the dentist! Eventually someone discovered a different kind of injection (or were they just telling me that!) that didn't have that effect but by that time I'd developed a kind of 'switching off' from the pain method. Difficult to describe but a sort of mental standing back and saying, 'oh, isn't that interesting - that tooth is hurting like hell!'
(I also used to voluntarily run a pain management group - the relaxation, exersise, goal-setting, planning and pacing type of thing but I always believed that 'attitude' was all. It was actually a poem we were discussing that got one of the Great Moaners in our group back to work when he never thought he would!)
On the other hand, sometimes embarrassingly, I seem to have a low tear threshold and I have often found that a 'good cry' magically stops all pain instantly for a while. I'd be very interested to know whether anyone else has experienced this?
In light of the fact that tears remove stress hormones from the body, it certainly makes a case for the body-mind connection! |
| Peg |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 06:03:29
>I actually only cracked a rib or two when I fell off the ladder,
Only a rib or two! You make it sound like nothing. I've taken care of people with broken ribs and they're pretty painful. You must have a high pain tolerance, or a great attitude.
>Besides the views of the mountains from my top windows are glorious!
Sounds nice.
>Finding it difficult to believe how pain-free I am this evening, when I really 'shouldn't' be! I'm having a very stressful time in lots of areas of my life at the moment so it's all the more remarkable and even if it doesn't last, I now know what's possible!
Believe it!!! And enjoy it. It will last even though you may have an occasional set back. In the future symptoms won't last long because now you KNOW. It's okay to still have stress, it's the way we deal with it that changes things and most importantly the knowledge you have gained. As Dr. Sarno says "Knowledge is the Penicillin for this disorder"
So happy for you. Keep at it.
Best,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 15:49:32
Peg, I actually only cracked a rib or two when I fell off the ladder, which is quite remarkable since it was quite a fall! The hospital thought the crush fracture in my spine was probably from a typical 'banana-skin' slip on some ice a couple of years previously, which had only appeared to cause me some temporary jarring of my neck at the time. The fracture itself gave me no pain at all until I 'stirred it up' in the later ladder incident.
And yes, weight-bearing exercises are the thing for osteoporosis. AFAIK, going up and down stairs is the best thing of all - and I have an old three-storey house with plenty of stairs! I paint on my top floor and have to come down to the ground floor to change my paint water or make a cuppa so I get plenty of exercise that way. Bungalows aren't always the best choice for retirement in this respect! Besides the views of the mountains from my top windows are glorious!
Finding it difficult to believe how pain-free I am this evening, when I really 'shouldn't' be! I'm having a very stressful time in lots of areas of my life at the moment so it's all the more remarkable and even if it doesn't last, I now know what's possible! |
| Peg |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:10:14
Although, on second thought, if I had had a bad fall like you with multiple fractures, I might reconsider taking something to strengthen my bones.
I've heard weight bearing exercise and weight training increase bone density too. Maybe gardening would qualify?
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| Peg |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 13:06:54
>"I've always thought I might have enjoyed some aspects of being a detective as I always want to get to the bottom of things, hunting for clues, piecing them all together etc!"
Me too!!!!
Glad you're having better days.
I personally don't worry about osteoporosis and won't take medications that may cause me problems. I read an excellent article titled "The Marketing of Osteoporosis". Very interesting. Makes you think. It can be found at this link:
http://journals.lww.com/ajnonline/Fulltext/2009/04000/The_Marketing_of_Osteoporosis.41.aspx
Thanks for the tip on talking out loud working best. Gave me a chuckle, but I believe that it would be more effective.
Take care,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 12:10:28
Hi all - just to say I've had a second amazingly painfree day, in spite of doing all sorts of things that I 'shouldn't' have, such as hoovering on the same day that I did the shopping and standing in a long queue at the PO. And all the lugging big bags of potting compost about on Sunday, which would normally have affected me 48 hrs later, doesn't seem to have produced any pain at all!
I'm finding that talking to my brain out loud is the way to go! I know from multisensory teaching that it's more effective if the pupils say things out loud so I'm applying that principal here! (Lucky that I live alone - I'll have to watch myself in queues in shops!!!)
But I'm not 'counting my chickens' yet - on Wednesdays and Thursdays I teach non-stop in the late afternoon/early evening and usually end up in a state of collapse by the time the pupils have left. So I won't let it discourage me if tomorrow and Thursday aren't as good. But on the other hand, that is a bit of 'conditioning' I'll need to deal with.
Peg, thank you for your reply. I loved your reference to being a 'detective'! I've always thought I might have enjoyed some aspects of being a detective as I always want to get to the bottom of things, hunting for clues, piecing them all together etc!
'I wouldn't think twice about your age. The people I know that have lived to 100, stayed active, including gardening. Do whatever you love to do. Don't let a number (or expectations) dictate that. There are people in their 70's who found this information and recovered from many years of tms.'
This may sound silly, but I've just remembered that I also have osteoporosis so maybe I should be a bit careful! I had a falling out with a pair of steps 12 years ago, fell about 8 ft flat on my back and was carted off to A&E where I was X-rayed. My low back, which is my usual trouble spot, was completely unaffected but an 'old' vertebral fracture showed up in my thoracic spine - and I broke some ribs. Was in considerable pain from that for nearly three months and when I was told I had osteoporosis, I joined the Osteoporosis Society. But they sent me such gruesome leaflets, warning that I could break my wrist brushing my hair, or break my pelvis taking a dish out of the oven, so I had to ask them to stop sending them. And once the pain was gone, I hardly thought about it any more. Although I take my medication regularly (last dexa-scan showed that I'm 'normal for my age') I normally tend to forget all about it!
I shouldn't imagine that osteoporosis is likely to be a manifestation of TMS and I haven't seen it on any of the lists of ailments and conditions. But if anyone knows different, I'd be glad to hear it!
And pandamoniom - I loved your image of zooming around in an office chair! I wish I'd thought of that when my children were young. I love cooking but I used to find myself standing on one foot, with a big frown on my face more often than not and wishing I could have given them their main meal in the middle of the day!
I'm afraid I won't be able to join your gathering in London - I'm in Wales and in any case, I'll be working. But have a super time and maybe one day we can arrange something similar in Cardiff?
|
| pandamonium |
Posted - 05/12/2009 : 01:58:27
My pain also worsened as the day went on, I used to prepare the evening meal on an office type chair with wheels, zooming back and forth because I couldn't stand any more but my kids needed feeding  seems such a long time ago now but it was only a year ago.
Not sure where in the UK you are but there are a few of us meeting in Richmond (Surrey) tomorrow evening; in the unlikely event you live anywhere nearby, (post probably on next page now) come along.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
| Peg |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 15:59:05
Hi Flutterby,
Glad my success story was of help. Fell free to e-mail me through this forum or send a message at the wiki if I can be of any help to you. As I said, my recovery was gradual with many ups and downs, but successful none the less. Nothing else had worked as you can see.
I see many excellent insights in your posts, they indicate to me that you will be successful as well. Just keep with it. I agree with you that conditioning and trying to do the tms recovery perfectly are big impediments to progress. I certainly experienced that. I used to beat myself up and felt like a failure because I wasn't totally pain free, or wasn't pain free fast enough, etc
I liken tms recovery to being a detective. you have already identified inconsistencies in your pain patterns. If the problem was structural, it wouldn't disappear at certain times. This is evidence of tms. There is also scientific evidence/studies that support Dr. Sarno's theory (such as the findings of herniated, bulging discs, spinal stenosis, arthritis, etc, in people with NO back pain). Also, the information in many excellent books listed on the tmswiki, support this approach (more or less).
I wouldn't think twice about your age. The people I know that have lived to 100, stayed active, including gardening. Do whatever you love to do. Don't let a number (or expectations) dictate that. There are people in their 70's who found this information and recovered from many years of tms.
You'll find a wealth of information on this forum as well as at the excellent links that forest provided.
Take care,
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 14:00:29
Thank you all, once again, for your messages of support and information. I am gradually working my way through all the links and thinking about how they apply to me.
The good news is that I've had two better days - though it's too early to know whether this is just due to the normal fluctuation in my pain level. Having said that, though, I've done a lot of things in defiance of my pain-producing brain and don't seem to be any the worse for it!
That's raised another query though, I'm afraid! I'm not at all sure what a nearly 66 yr old woman would 'normally' expect to be able to do in terms of physical chores, such as gardening.
I realise that all of my friends, some ten years younger than I am, seem to be suffering from some ailment or other so I have nothing to compare with. I don't suppose anyone will be able to answer this query as everyone is so different but if there are any oldies like me out there, your input would be very much appreciated.
I also have a kind neighbour who loves to 'look after' people and I'm having a lot of difficulty persuading him to stop saying 'don't do that' or 'let me do that' constantly! It has always irritated me but I think showing him a quote from 'Healing Back Pain' on this subject may be beginning to get through to him. But even so, it's an ingrained habit with him and I think it will take time for him to break that habit.
And on the subject of habits, in spite of what Dr Schubiner says about recovery time, I have the feeling that pandamonium's comment about conditioning may turn out to be my biggest obstacle. For instance, I've 'known' for years that my pain gets worse as the day goes on and lo and behold, even after most of the day has been virtually painfree, I'm having to lecture my brain very sternly this evening as it was a while before I became aware that I was falling into my usual pattern of pain in the late afternoon. I am so used to taking it for granted! And I'm sure there will be lots more instances of conditioning to identify and that could take time, especially as I'm pretty busy with absorbing work and it can easily creep up on me unnoticed.
One thing that has just occurred to me when I just wrote that I'm pretty busy, is that maybe I simply get tired but don't want to admit it. It seems more justifiable to put my feet up and watch the television because of my backpain than to be 'just' tired. Hmmm!
|
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 10:14:27
Hi flutterby (by the way, I think your name is clever!)
I'm glad to hear that you liked Peg's success story. I've sent her an email to let her know of this thread and maybe she'll even say hi.
I'm glad to see that other people are posting, too. This forum is a great place to get support, so it surprised me to see that it took a day for someone to try answering your questions.
Dr. Schubiner has already answered the question, "My pain started 42 years ago ... Is it at all likely that the fact that my pain started so long ago will mean that it will take longer to get rid of it?" You can find his answer here: My pain started long ago. Will it take a longer time to get rid of it?
Incidentally, I've got 4 TMS doctors, 2 TMS therapists, and 1 TMS author/physiotherapist lined up to answer everyone's questions about TMS (for free!). If anyone wants to have their questions answered, please let me know. Right now, we actually have more experts than questions, so we need your question! I don't want to clutter up flutterby's thread, but you can post your questions in this thread here on these forums (click here).
Questions that have already been answered include:
Forest |
| crk |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 08:14:24
quote:
... a manifestation of my need to be a 'star pupil', 'top of the class' ... this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality?
Definitely, it feeds into the tms. You have to be careful not to give your subconscious mind an added dose of rage by the effort of trying not to be perfect. Double whammy. "Letting go" and awareness will help.
It's funny, because one of the tms reminders is "I will be in control, not my subconscious mind." I have to revise that one to read: "I will be in control of what physical actions I do. I will let go of trying to control life's circumstances, the opinions of others, and my own striving to be perfect." |
| HilaryN |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 04:45:34
quote:
But maybe this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality?
Yes, and very common!
Hilary N |
| pandamonium |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 03:54:07
Hi Flutterby, welcome to the forum
I'd be careful not to try and be best in class, you made a valid comment about being in pain a long time and it may take a while to get better. In particular the conditioning may take a while to disappear, your comment about Tesco's sounds like conditioning. I had SI pain for 10 yrs and after a year of addressing my TMS I am pain free. You can read my story Here on the Success Stories Forum
Good luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
| flutterby |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 03:06:24
Thank you both for your replies - you've given me lots to think about! Peg Hanson's story was particularly reassuring. I will need to summon up my patience - not my strongest point!
Something occurred to me yesterday that made me laugh! I think my impatience and frustration with myself about the slowness of my progress is a manifestation of my need to be a 'star pupil', 'top of the class', something I've been aware of for a long time and thought I'd dealt with twenty years or so ago. But here it is popping up its head again! Yet another thing to write in my journal about!
I'm not a perfectionist in the usual sense - in fact I'm quite slapdash in many aspects of my life. But maybe this drive to 'be the best' at things - even if it's the best at being slapdash! - is part of the typical TMS personality? |
| forestfortrees |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 20:21:15
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
I would very much appreciate any advice or encouragement as I'm feeling a little disappointed after reading reviews of Dr Sarno's books in which one reviewer after another recorded instant pain relief!
I think that resolution of symptoms comes slowly for an aweful lot of people. In fact, my guess is that most people don't have the instant pain relief that you mention. You may like the following quote from PegHanson's success storyquote:
I don't want to mislead anyone. I did not have an instantaneous resolution of my symptoms (although I now know people who have). It has been a gradual process of healing and self discovery for me, but well worth it. I have had occasional episodes of some discomfort over the years (during stressful times) but now I know how to address it and can make it go away pretty easily. The most important thing is that it has never been as bad as it was at it's worst, and most of the time I have no pain at all. I no longer have fear and I know that I am healthy and strong. I have no limitations in what I can do. I have proven that to myself over and over again in the past 8 years since recovering using Dr. Sarno's information. Probably the most physical things I have been able to do is that I painted an entire house, took a dance class, learned scuba and just last year I rode a bicycle 110 miles in a day (having trained for it in only 3 weeks).
Forest
tmswiki.org |
|
|
