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Saltbird
3 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2005 : 21:37:26
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Since curing my self of absolutely catastrophic back pain about three years ago, I have been suffering from various other cronic ailments. For about one year I could not wear my contact lenses, because they would simply pop out at a specific time every day. I also have very bad bouts of insomnia which comes and goes in bi-weekly cycles. I seem to wake up at about 2 am during these periods. My TMS seems to run in a very specific pattern, that never ceases to amaze me. As of late, my right foot will swell up at the arch area at different times of the day. As my eye problems have cleared up, my foot pain has gotten much worse. It has gotten so bad, that at about 2pm everyday at work, I have to take off my shoe. I'm positive that its TMS, and that it will eventually go away. |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2005 : 10:28:13
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I also had foot pain, and shin splints with my back pain. It lingered for a while, but eventually went away, when I realized it was tms,also. I think it is harder to accept foot pain as tms, but it is.
I find it interesting that it comes at a specific time for you,maybe a "conditioning"? I was conditioned to get pain when I ran hills. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2005 : 12:10:04
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I've got big time foot pain. Literally evry single part of both feet at one time or another, and occasionally all together...plantar fasciitis, toe pain, ankle pain, tops of the feet pain, metataralsgia...Since applying TMS self-treatment, they're much better. The more they hurt in the beginning, the longer and harder I ran.
Now, they barely hurt at all most of the time. |
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2005 : 12:48:14
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Hello,
These stories are encouraging. I am now feeling a lot of arch and heel pain and of course the timing is sucky b/c I'm about to go on a monthlong trip that will involve a lot of walking. Tecnnically I do have flat feet. Years ago I'd worn orthotics for this condition, but I shed them, along with a long list of medications when I used TMS-theory to rid myself of the "fibromyalgia" version of TMS. I've been having a lot of different symptoms lately b/c my whole life is changing as I go back to school full-time to study for a new career (after 12.5 years in the same job). So it would seem appropriate that my feet don't want to "step off" into the future.
Unfortunately I'm in a fear state right now that this is a structural issue and not TMS.And the pain radiates to the knees and hips as well. Though 2 weeks ago I was running around in sandals doing errands for hours and now can't walk half an hour? That seems quite extreme!
So I need a good talking to!!!!
Thanks,
Windy
actually just to be clear, the orthotics were shed before I found Sarno's books, during a bout of P/T for "metatarsalgia". I'd seen an orthopedist who hated any kind of contraption and was told flat feet does not have to cause pain of the feet are strong. this still makes it easy for mind to say "oh, the feet are weak" when they hurt and tho think of the feet as vulnerable. |
Edited by - windy on 07/09/2005 13:05:28 |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2005 : 18:21:20
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Windy - have you ever looked at the site www.runningpain.com? It is Monte Heufle's site about tms and running. He wrote a book also, that you can read some of on his site. He is a competitive marathon runner, that had every pain you could think of, all from tms. His feet
and hips were the biggies. I also used to get pain if I didn't wear my orthotics, or ran in sandals or shoes, etc., until my daughter was lost at a picnic, and I ran 6 miles in my sandals looking for her.
I didn't think about this until after, and I never got foot pain again. As long as I believed in the foot pain it worked.My daughter was ok, just sidetracked.After the panic was over I was grateful this happened. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2005 : 18:51:32
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Hi Windy,
Sometimes it's hard to be objective about our situations. Given your experiences with TMS in the past, both the fact that you're obviously very prone to it and the fact that you've healed yourself by apply the TMS "protocol" (for lack of a better word at the moment), your current foot pain sure sounds like classic TMS to me. And even aside from all that, just your description of the pain sounds TMS-ish to me (the pain radiating to your hips and knees for one thing).
I think for us TMS'ers,fear is part of the disease. It just seems like that's the way it is for most of us, the constant obsessive worry and fear.
"Yes," we say to ourselves, "everything in the past I've had has been TMS, but what if this is not? Maybe this time I've really got something."
It's all part of Dr. Sarno's distracton theory I think. You've got an awful lot going on in your life right now. Given your history (to the extent that you've shared it), it makes perfect sense that you'd have some sort of TMS flare-up.
Hope this helps in some way.
Good thoughts to you,
A.
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 06:26:31
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Art & Alt -
Thanks for your replies & encouragement. Lately my TMS has been shooting different "symptoms" at me, most of which I can shoot down easily but anything with the feet has me petrified. One reason is because it's summer so I'm more active and now can't enjoy that (like I said, upcoming trip) and also I'll be going from a profession that's quite sedentary )behind a desk) to one where I need to be more fit and active.
It's hard for me to repudiate the structural in this case is b/c in the past, orthotics have helped me and it's hard for me to so easily dismiss an 8 year placebo effect.
In looking back over my adult life (maybe even parts of childhood, too) I can see that TMS has always been around. I have a beautiful couple of years in my recent past where I conquered it upon visiting with Sarno. After nearly 5 years of bad pain due to "fibromyalgia" and being on a bunch of meds, I stopped all my meds and felt remarkably better and better just within weeks of my appt with Sarno. This was one of the truly euphoric experiences of my life. It's sad to me that it didn't stay that way for long.  I do know that subsequent eps tend be short-lived but I wonder if this yoke will ever be all the way off. In fact, because of my experiences I'm going into a healthcare profession where one could deal with many RSI sufferers (not a manifestation I dealth with)....
windy
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 09:26:07
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quote:
Originally posted by windy
Unfortunately I'm in a fear state right now that this is a structural issue and not TMS.
You made a perfect argument as to why the foot pain is likely TMS, and yet you still think it's structural.
This is very typical. It is much harder to banish the fear than the symptoms.
You know that the foot pain is likely TMS. Are you going to let your brain get away with it? Or are you going to stand up, yell at your brain, and not fall victim to its tricks. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 11:38:30
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Windy,
Almost every single one of my apparent injuries are of the over-use variety which seem to make perfect sense in context...running more miles, adding hills, etc.
My foot injury started when I was given orthotics that had a ridge just where the pain in my foot developed. For months I was convinced that was the reason. I decided it was TMS anyway.
You say it's hard to dismiss your foot pain. It's all hard. Takes courage, grit, and above all wisdom. I can't say for sure whether it's TMS. Only you can. I can say however that it sure sounds like it, given your history and the way you speak of it.
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res
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 14:50:45
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| I had ankle pain after an apparent "injury" that lasted a couple of months. I had pain in the back and inside of my ankle. It even hurt to wear any shoes that touched the inside part of my ankle. I eventually got over worrying about it being structural and it then cleared up in abut 3 weeks. It lasted about 4 weeks before I got to the point that I could say, "this is totally TMS and not structural." Once I whole heartedly believed this, the pain went away. Belief for some reason is always my hurdle even though the TMS diagnosis has proved itself true many times over. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 15:51:28
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quote:
Belief for some reason is always my hurdle even though the TMS diagnosis has proved itself true many times over.
I know. Me too. It's easier now though than it used to be.
One thing that never fails to help me is simply reminding myself that I have a strong and resilient body, much stronger than I even realize, and there is just no good reason why I can't.....(fill in the blank)...run five miles....play tennis for an hour.....play golf.....whatever....without hurting myself.
If every single time in the past an injury has shown itself to be TMS, then surely it's overwhelmingly likely that any injury going forward is also TMS, no matter how "logical" the "injury" might seem in the context of what I've been doing lately.
I'm just a TMS kind of guy, and my brain looks for ways to trick me. |
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barbara
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 16:21:02
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I certainly relate to Windy's comment that anything to do with the feet is petrifying. I have been petrified about my feet since the diagnosis "posterior tibial dysfunction" was waved at me by a foot and ankle specialist about two months ago. This diagnosis can involve "catastrophic disability", according to some of the informative websites. Perfect for a catastrophist like me.
Interestingly someone kindly re-posted the Larry King Live link which was my first introduction to Sarno. Thank you.
I re-read it and lo and behold one of the guests on the programme was a Janette Barber who had posterior tibial problems and ended up in a wheelchair (my great fear). She was cured by Sarno, so this was very encouraging indeed. If you read the meds on the wed it is an incurable degenerative disease with four stages.
In theory. I am still seeing doctors but I know I have to get a grip and just start the belief business but it takes me an awfully long time to get there. Particularly with feet! So thanks to whoever put up that link - it was very timely from my point of view. But to give you an idea of how incorrigible I am and how easily influenced by conventional cures - I have two flatfooted friends who are completely delighted with orthotics which eradicated their hip and leg pain.
But then again I also know plenty who have used them and got rid of them.
And of course if they worked for me (which they don't as they bite into tendon pain, I would cheerfully wear them.
Sorry about that last bit - as you can see I have a way to travel with the re-training the brain business! |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 18:00:20
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Barbara,
The great thing about TMS is you don't have to be afraid. I dislike words like "empowering," but that's precisely what learning about this stuff has been for me. Also "liberating." As a runner/biker/athlete person, I lived every day of my life in fear of being hurt. I don't have to do that anymore. I can't tell you what a relief that is, although on second thought I probably don't have to.
Life is short. We shouldn't waste a second of it. |
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 21:35:12
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Barbara, interesting point about your flat-foot friends who like their orthotics. How strong is the placebo effect from orthotics? I was first put in them in 1992 and they helped me tremendously for years. However, over time, they do more harm than good because if you brace anything it will not function for itself the way nature intended. I haven't worn orthotics for 4 years and now I'm afraid it's "catching up with me".
(my feet are burning now as I type this because of course typing is soooo strenuous on the arches of the feet  )
My dad has very flat feet and has never worn an orthotic in his life and is better off for it. I'm trying to jump off the fence on the anti-orthotic side. Feel free to give me a push, anyone.
one more point, Barbara, not to disrespect the diagnosis you were given but I think that the more specialized the specialist is the more syllables your ailment will have!
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Edited by - windy on 07/10/2005 21:36:56 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 00:19:55
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quote:
How strong is the placebo effect from orthotics? I was first put in them in 1992 and they helped me tremendously for years. However, over time, they do more harm than good because if you brace anything it will not function for itself the way nature intended. I haven't worn orthotics for 4 years and now I'm afraid it's "catching up with me".
The placebo effect is no different with orthotics than it is with sugar pills or anything else. Generally speaking, of very limited duration. What makes you so sure the orthotics helped you? Maybe there was just nothing wrong with you in the first place.
To be honest, you seem a little confused. On the one hand you ask about placebo effects. On the other, you say the orthotics helped you for years. And then on the other (we've got three hands in this extended metaphor) you seem to understand perfectly that there's no reason why your feet should be burning while typing.
By the way, if your feet were fine for four years, there's just no good reason why not wearing orthotics would suddenly "catch up to you."
Edit: Oh, I forgot to ask...on the subject of "weak feet." What makes you think your feet are "weak?" What would account for that?
Well, you asked for it. A push that is. |
Edited by - art on 07/11/2005 00:28:41 |
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 07:31:47
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| Thank you very much, Art. That is indeed what was requested. Let logic prevail! |
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LynnH
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 17:28:33
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Windy, have you read Dr. Sopher's book? He has a great chapter on foot pain and why none of the reason doctors give us for our foot pain makes any sense.
My flat feet (complete with bone spurs) hurt for years. Reading Sarno and Sopher and journaling alleviated 90% of the pain. Exercising through the pain took care of the other 10%. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 17:28:38
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quote:
Originally posted by barbara
.... according to some of the informative websites. Perfect for a catastrophist like me....
Yes, sometimes I think that the "Google Search" button is TMS's best ally and a TMSer's worst nightmare! -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 07/11/2005 17:30:52 |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 08:19:41
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Here is Dr. Sopher's chapter on foot pain:
Chapter 19
FEET
Feet are a favorite topic of mine right now. There is a veritable
epidemic of foot pain in our society. All of a sudden, everyone has
foot problems, from pro athletes to the couch potato next door. This
has not always been the case. Think hard, back 10 to 20 years ago.
Do you remember hearing so much about plantar fasciitis, heel spurs,
and other foot disorders? Of course you don’t, because foot pain was
relatively uncommon then. When I started my medical training about
20 years ago, foot pain was not a common complaint, now it is in
vogue and everywhere you turn.
There is no doubt in my mind that the overwhelming majority of
foot pain attributed to plantar fasciitis, heel spurs, neuromas, or other
physical causes is TMS. Here is something to think about: why
should the incidence of foot pain be increasing now? It makes no
sense. WE are not strolling about on rocky, uneven trails, barefoot,
like our ancestors did. We are not shod in rudimentary footwear,
lacking cushion or support. In fact, I would argue that the footwear
industry has done an incredible job providing us with supremely
comfortable and affordable shoes. Not only is there a vast array of
styles, but we have shoes specifically designed for every waking
activity. There are shoes for walking, running, hiking, cross-training,
aerobics, tennis, soccer, baseball, football, squash, racquetball,
bicycling, rock climbing, golf, basketball – the list goes on. There are
shoes in different widths, for overpronators or underpronators, for
heavier folks, or those who are lighter, for high arches or low arches,
for those who prefer extra cushioning or a wider toe box. The choices
are dazzling. Now people are getting foot pain? How does this make
sense at all?
Most of us have been upright, standing, walking, running,
skipping, climbing since the age of one year. Suddenly our feet
should start to hurt? This makes no sense. Falling from a significant
height and landing on our feet – that should cause pain. But even in
that scenario, with trauma, we heal (unless the trauma is severe)
promptly and the pain leaves. Even broken bones heal, within four to
eight weeks, except for truly extraordinary circumstances.
Yet, well-meaning orthopedists and podiatrists will provide a
detailed lecture on foot mechanics and a very convincing explanation
of the suddenly acquired physical inadequacies responsible for the
pain. Why? Because this is what they are taught: a physical
symptom must have a physical cause. Yes, we all can get injured.
Step in a hole and you may sprain your ankle, injuring ligaments. But
this heals. We are fantastic creatures, as I’ll remind you often. We
have an amazing capacity to heal quickly when injured. When pain
and discomfort linger well beyond the timeframe for expected healing
following an injury, what is going on? Have we suddenly become
defective, losing our innate ability to heal? If pain develops and stays
without obvious trauma or an unusual physical stress, what’s going on
there? How does that make sense? And if that discomfort becomes
chronic, then logic has really been defied. We cannot be so fragile. If
so, how could we still exist? We’d be extinct, having been wiped off
the face of the earth as a result of being so feeble in the face of normal
activities.
So now, foot pain is in vogue. It is acceptable. Everyone has it.
The pain, the nuisance, serves as a distraction, keeping unpleasant
thoughts and emotions at bay. It is fine to commiserate with others
about aching feet, far more acceptable than ranting and raving about
stressful issues in your life, past or present.
Complain enough and your feet will get injected, put in splints or
fit for orthotics.
Undoubtedly medication will be prescribed. Maybe you’ll
eventually have surgery. Even worse than those treatments will be
the inevitable advice to stop running or quit aerobics class, to get off
your feet. Exercise, which helps to maintain conditioning and fitness,
aid with stress management and even improve mood, will be taken
away in the name of modern medicine. Not too difficult to imagine
the consequences, is it?
Oh, yes, sometimes the pain seems improved with one of these
therapies. However, in my experience, the relief may be temporary,
as with any placebo response (Remember, very few people really
want to be in pain). If it appears to last longer, it is inevitable that a
new pain will surface at another location. This is the brain’s strategy,
to make you believe that the cause is physical, rather than
psychological, and to keep you guessing, off-balance.
As an aside, I think the foot pain epidemic began shortly after
Larry Bird’s surgery for heel spurs in the early 1980’s. Heel spurs are
often incidental findings on foot x-rays, but now are regularly blamed
for foot pain. Which leads to the question: were heel spurs to blame
for Larry Bird’s foot pain? Obviously, I cannot answer that, but in the
chapter on athletes I postulate how a competitive athlete’s personality
makes him/her a set-up for TMS.
Jack is a 45-year-old with heel and foot pain for more than one
year. Diagnosed by both a podiatrist and orthopedist as having
plantar fasciitis, nothing has alleviated his daily foot pain. He’s tried
orthotics, NSAIDs, taping, stretching and special exercises to no
avail. In addition to his foot pain, he has a history of chronic
intermittent back pain despite two surgeries, reflux, migraines and
irritable bowel syndrome.
Married with two children, he is self-employed and trying to get a
book published. He is very happy with his life but acknowledges that
he feels much responsibility for his family and realizes that this is a
source of stress.
At my urging he stopped all treatments and within two weeks his
foot pain resolved. His other symptoms have also improved.
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Edited by - n/a on 07/12/2005 20:07:26 |
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windy
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 09:32:52
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Peter,
Thank you so much for posting this!!!! I did give my brain a good talking to in the last two days. I am noticing improvements.
Windy |
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barbara
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 17:20:10
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| Yes, I second that. Thanks Peter. |
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Foot Pain
