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robin
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2006 : 19:42:37
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I am so excited!! I just got my April issue of Runner's World. There is a two page article about Mind Body issues and the focus includes Sarno and Schecter.
I have not usually had a lot of respect for Runner's World because it often focuses too much on injuries. I have a whole new respect now and maybe finally many of my running colleagues will not think I am totally nuts for saying "Yea, I have pain in____________(any body part) but I really think it is because________________(any stressful event occurring in my life)." Most of my friends have thus far just looked at me like I had horns on my head, but now maybe they will start to question their own pain. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 06:09:12
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Robin-
I saw the article in Runners World. I am happy like you that the mind/body stuff is being at least addressed. I struggle often with deciding whether something is TMS or not. My "injuries" definitely last longer than they should which is a sign of TMS but i fight mightily inside whether to look for another treatment or to stop running. That is my biggest battle - whether or not to stop running - the tape loop that plays in my head - "if i stop running maybe the pain will go away, but if i continue to run, the injury won't heal". I wonder if I am alone in these pervasive tape loops.
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robin
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 15:48:30
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I think the key for me (realizing my problems are tms) is that I have come to trust and respect my body. I know that I have put in the time and my body is strong enough to take a lot of stress without pain/injury. I also have never upped my miles in a way that would surprise my body. I don't expect more from it than I should. I run 65 miles a week right now and have finished my first ultramarathon. I didn't start running this much overnight and it is ridiculous to think that a 5 mile speed work out (for example) would cause me pain/injury.
You have to really track the pain and if it starts on an illogical path, then you know it is tms. It is always illogical in my cases. For example, I won't have any pain after 30 miles, but will have pain after an easy three miles or I'll take two weeks off and the pain comes back the day I start running again in full force. That is indicative of tms and you have to do whatever you need to get that injury thinking out of your mind. Start a new mantra or tape in your mind.
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:14:32
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| I'm still waiting for my magazine, but a fellow runner who actually listened to me about TMS (and healed) told me about it. I post alot on the RW forum, and once I read the article I may post a topic about Sarno and how he helped me. It is exciting!! |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:53:57
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Is this the fear that you are talking about: In October I had a slight stiff neck and I ignored the pain and it started getting worse and worse and I continued to run. Finally in November I went to the doctor and he said I had Deg. Disk Disease - I'm 53, who wouldn't? And a pinched nerve. I went to PT but continued to run. I stopped all other forms of exercise, i.e. spinning, swimming, lifting. The pain has gotten worse and worse. I don't wnat to get an MRI.
I guess my question is, is the fear I have .... whether to run or not is founded or unfounded. As I previously posted, I lost one year of running and now that I'm back I don't want to stop. My fear is that the pain won't go away until I stop running because I have continued to run and the neck pain got worse -- can the pain go away if I continue to run? If it is a pinched nerve -- isn't running detrimental. Are these irrational fears??
I could get an MRI but I know it will show something as most do. Then the doc. will rx more PT and meds. My obsessive thinking of running will not let the pain go away and the unknown - if I stop running the pain MIGHT go away.
Do you guys understand -- I hope I explained it well enough.
Thanks |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 13:37:31
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hsb,
Seems like you're not ready to treat your neck pain as TMS.
If it is TMS, you only perpetuate it by going for PT, stopping certain forms of exercise.
So, if you really want to give this a shot, you need to dive into the pool. You need to try your best to accept that the pain is psychogenic and has nothing to do with running. You have to stop restricting your physical exercises and banish the fear.
If you're unable or unwilling to do that, then I'm afraid you need to keep going down the physical path, get MRIs, PTs, and probably eventually, surgery. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 13:43:05
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Dave-
This pain started in October. I totally ignored it until very recently when i realized the pain was getting worse and worse. Of course the ortho. said the disc spaces are getting closer - I KNOW THIS HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. So i continued running, in fact increased my mileage and the pain has gotten worse and worse. The answer: i haven't been doing the TMS work?????? As long as I think running is the cause of the pain or exacerbates it, I won't get better? Is that the theory?
Thans so very much. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 13:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
As long as I think running is the cause of the pain or exacerbates it, I won't get better? Is that the theory?
Thans so very much.
Yes, that's part of it.
If the pain is TMS its purpose is to serve as a distraction. When you fear that the pain has a structural origin, and that it will be made worse by physical activity, you are fulfilling the goal of TMS. You are obsessing about the pain. TMS is succeeding at grabbing your focus.
Assuming you've ruled out serious disease and there is no acute injury, and you wish to treat the pain as TMS, then you need to do the work. That means to ignore the pain and accept it as a benign signal that you are repressing emotions. Whenever you are aware of the pain, turn your thoughts towards your emotional issues.
The very first step is to accept the diagnosis. You haven't done that because you still feel that running exacerbates the pain and that exercise could make it worse. If the pain has a psychological origin, then it is not affected by physical activity. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 14:00:42
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Thanks Dave.
What is an acute injury? Is DDD (degen. disc disease) or a pinched nerve? I know that the ortho would say that is the cause of the pain. As you can see I believe in TMS somewhat .... i have had this neck pain since October (started out very mild) and it hasn't gotten better. It should have. The only thing I have done since the start of this pain is run and run more miles.
That is the acceptance part Dave, that I think I am not getting --- the mystery is ... if I stop running, will the pain go away?
Thanks for your help Dave.
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 14:12:27
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HSB,
The neck pain is TMS - the degenerative disc disease etc. etc is the just the nonsense that the doctors feed us. We all have degenerated discs - look at Robin - runs 65 miles a week at 52 - our bodies are amazing machines - designed for extreme exercise. The brain is causing the pain - as a distraction to take you away from all the stressors in your life. Neck pain and running have absolutely no connection - in fact if you think about it - it is crazy! You have good old fashioned TMS. If I were you, I would start focusing on reading Sarno's "Healing Back Pain" or "MindBody prescription" and really delve into the work. Your mind has not let go of creating the pain yet.
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robin
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 14:13:31
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Dave- I wonder how you can tell hsb that degen.disc disease is not a disease when you have a person w/ lots of letters behind their name and a nice white coat telling you these "facts." I don't know if I am capable of explaining how this happened to me (I was also diagnosed w/ degen. disc disease) and I was able to say "screw it" to the men in white coats.
I think I had a twinge of doubt in their diagnoses- I was told that I would never be capable of running more than three miles a day. I wanted to believe something else, and maybe that is what caused me to throw their info. out the window.
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robin
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 14:16:27
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| BTW Suz, I am only 32. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 14:45:29
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Hi everyone !
HSB, I am also a runner and I started to get lateral neck pain last august. Just like you the pain started mildly but with all the physical treatments it went just worse and worse.. I started to have neuropathic pain , Severe Tinnitus, TMJ, neck crackle, rotation limitation, etc etc ...
I just stopped running and doing any exercice for 6 months. It was the worst choice I ever made in my life. Fear installed, and I became obsessive about injuring myself... I almost felt at some point like I was made of porcelain........
Since I discovered TMS 2 months ago, I just kicked my ass. I went to a camping trip in Japan (22 hours flight, no orthopedic pillow, no heat , nothing). A very hard but empowering trip. I started back to run 3 weeks ago... actually I am running through pain and no matter what is happening i will not stop running, because now I know that it is the only way to beat TMS. NO COMPROMISE here ...
I you read my previous posts, you will see that just like you I have been in the physical world for a while on this forum, ominated by fear... In my case, it is a hard issue since I am a medical engineer and I am very used to read Xrays and MRIs. However, as time pass, i am collecting every days new evidences that the source of my pain is purely psychogenic (For instance, a month ago, I realized that changing slightly my teeth occlusion by accident reduced my neck pain immediatly and increased my neck motion like never in the last 5 months. I then decided to wear a mouth plate I had to 'correct' my occlusion. Guess what did happen ??????? after one day wearing the plate, my pain shifted on the right side for the first time in 5 months. After 2 days, pain came back to the left with a vengence !!!! My conclusion : PURE CLASSIC TMS, no REASONABLE STRUCTURAL EXPLANATION).
Another amazing fact: By training on focusing more and more on the emotional, I am now feeling I begining to have the ability to very quickly dissolve my pain and spasms and induce a rush of blood to my neck muscles sometimes..... Even if the relief is often not more than 15 minutes, the O*N*L*Y* way I can get this temporary relief is by thinking emotional ....
Do not forget, reconditioning your mindbody is a training, just like training for a marathon .... you must accept that it takes time, it is essential . I find that many people are discouraged because they are conditionned to expect super fast recovery from reading the books etc... I was one of them. But it is just not the case ... you wont be able to do a marathon after a week of training right ? ... same process here .
Yesterday, I just found something interesting while I was journaling. For me acceptance and surrender is not only believing in the TMS theory. It is also aknowledging that I do not have a perfect body. I have some structural neck abnormalities, yearh right, maybe ... and so what .... it may explain some bening motion restriction as almost all of us experience, but it DOES NOT EXPLAIN IN ANY WAY THE PAIN WE ARE SUFFERING. I had major neck stiffnessin the past without feeling this unbearable severe pain ....
To my opinion, accepting not being perfect is a major, underestimated, issue in TMS recovery I think.
Anyways, I am inviting you to read my previous posts if you want to hear from a story that is very similar to yours. Feel also free to write to me .
Pat
PS: I do agree we are built for strong exercice. I red an article recently telling that from an evolution perspective, the human body was 'designed' to RUN !!!! so please do not do what I did, I suggest that do not enter the fear realm... continue running... just understand your limits and give you the compassion and the time to overcome your fear before going further .
P.
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Edited by - FlyByNight on 03/09/2006 14:47:56 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 15:01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
the mystery is ... if I stop running, will the pain go away?
This is the type of thinking that is incompatible with recovery from TMS.
If you think the running has anything to do with the pain then you're not there yet. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 15:04:35
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Robin,
So sorry about age mistake. Phew! What a relief! I was feeling very unfit and lazy at 36 when I thought you were in your fifties (who knows where I got that from - I have flu right now so can only use fever as excuse)
Anwyay - I am amazed that you run so far each week - it really is incredible what the body can do.
On a totally different note, a couple of female friends of mine cautioned me about running - saying that it really ages the skin etc. - they said you can see it in runner's faces and also the muscles become droopy due to gravity. Any truth in that or is it a load of baloney?
Suz |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 15:49:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
On a totally different note, a couple of female friends of mine cautioned me about running - saying that it really ages the skin etc. - they said you can see it in runner's faces and also the muscles become droopy due to gravity. Any truth in that or is it a load of baloney?
Suz
LOLOLOL! I recently went through years of photographs for a video we were putting together for my son's confirmation. The pictures of me BEFORE and AFTER I was running were incredible. I look happier, healthier, glowing, and much younger than when I was sitting around the house doing nothing. I'm not Cinderella, but I have experienced only positive benefits from running.  |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 16:54:05
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Robin-
you wrote:
I think I had a twinge of doubt in their diagnoses- I was told that I would never be capable of running more than three miles a day. I wanted to believe something else, and maybe that is what caused me to throw their info. out the window.
this is a very interesting statement. i think in my case i read on the net about deg. disc. disease in your neck that the worst thing to do is run. the doc says not to run and to get an mri (which i haven't done). i don't want to believe them because i have been dealing with "injuries" for years and years and PT NEVER EVER has worked. what usually happens is that i start running again and the pain eventually disappears. i don't want to give the dr. the chance to read an mri that shows DDD (ANYONE OVER 50 HAS THIS!).
as dave said i guess i am not there yet because i still question whether stopping running will make a difference - you know - rest, take NSAIDS and the pain will go away. guess what it never has before.
perhaps i want to use the TMS belief system to give me permission to run and not take time off from running and lose fitness, etc.? you compulsive runners out there - do you concur?
thanks for keeping this thread alive.
hsb |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 08:04:48
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| FlyByNight - I like the "porcelain" comment. That's really the way it feels when one is at the lowest, most hopeless stage in the TMS process....I'm still addressing my conditioning - one activity at a time....I've been very successful overall except I'm stuck on the running thing. I keep getting strong leg/ankle pain 30 minutes to an hour after the run - which can last for days - wheresas I get no pain during the run...How can the problem be structural if I get no pain during the activity? I keep waiting for a period in my life when I'm not so busy at work and home so I can try to push through the pain running every day with "less to lose". I hate to be so distracted by the pain when I have so much to concentrate on in my daily life, but when will such a down time period every come up - when my kids grow up and I retire? Now I"m just fast walking an hour a day - which does not give me the same exhilaration and mental relaxation. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 08:18:35
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Fox,
I experience the same 'delayed' pain after running . actually its coming as soon as my neck is cooling down (15-30 minutes after the run) . To help me not focus too much on the pain, I decided to run to go the office in the morning. I am so busy at work that I dont have much time to obsess on the pain. It works almost fine.... almost .. hehe .
In my modest opinin, you should start running again ASAP
P. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 08:26:04
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| Thanks for the encouragement, FlyByNight. I know that I need to push on this. Running for me used to be like a "Pepto Bismol" coating for the brain. I'd run an hour each morning and I'd feel relaxed and joyful all day....And it used not to increase my leg pain....But then I saw an orthopedist who told me to stop running or I'd tear up more discs, I had a spinal fusion (which didn't help at all), and I turned chicken....Without running, I tend to get upset and obsess over inconsequential things and I don't like that. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 08:33:41
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| the key to me is to do it progressively ... you could start with swimming also... its very soft on the body and maybe more suitable for you to get more confidence at the moment considering your amount of present fear. |
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Runners World
