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jayjb2001
7 Posts |
 Posted - 10/14/2004 : 12:03:44
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I have a long history of TMS, with various manifestations ranging from lower back pain, to shoulder pain, knee and foot pain. I'm an endurance athlete and have done various marathons and triathlons pushing through all kinds of TMS problems. Recently, I was preparing for a long distance triathlon and my lower back "went out" a few weeks before the race. Realizing this was TMS (as always) I continued to train and waited for the pain to subside. By race day, the back pain had gone away but I had developed piriformis and hip discomfort. Anyway, I did the race despite the pain, and suffered badly during the run (felt like my entire pelvic region had locked up). Strange considering I had trained intensely for 8 months without a problem.
Anyway, the hip pain continued after the race so I went to see a doctor that specializes in runners. He did an MRI and it shows a stress fracture of the sacrum. Pretty serious injury he says - no running or biking for 4-6 mths! Possibility of permanent damage if I continue to train.
Well, I'm "scared s---less" now (though strangely pain-free)...maybe i've played the TMS card one too many times here. This sounds like a "real" injury - thoughts? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 20:13:12
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Dear Jay,
According to Dr. Sarno's MBP, page 91, he says a fracture of the femur, the largest bone in the body, will heal stronger in 6-8 weeks.
Laying off for 4-6 months sounds excessive to me. But I've never had a stress fracture, (that I was aware of), nor any broken bones, and I've completed 13 marathons. How many has your doctor done? I would do as much research on the web as you can and maybe get some other doc's opinions. I've got a diabetic cat, he's been examined by about 20 vets so far. Take a look at the web.md site under stress fractures. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/18/1676_52417.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}. The article also said that they take 6-8 weeks to heal.
You may also want to see Monte Huefle's site www.runningpain.com. He's posted here and is a TMS'er.
My seat of the pants opinion, on stress fractures, is that they may be a convenient structural explanation for TMS pain. Considering all the anomalies that occur on spine x-rays, some being painful and the identical anomalie in some one else having no pain, I am suspicious of stress fractures also. My seat of the pants, BS, meter makes me suspicious of any injury, unless there is overwhelming proof to the contrary, that it is structural.
Have you been under a lot of emotional stress recently? TMS is about emotional stress as I assume you know.
You mention that you are scared but pain-free. This reminds me of a phenomenon Sarno wrote about. Soldiers, injured on the battlefield, needed very little or no morphine for pain, The knowledge, that they were going home, was enough respite for their pain.
I'm just guessing, but may the pressure of all the training for the tri-athalon, be creating too much emotional pressure? Does your mind need a rest from the pressure of training? Now, that the injury is forcing an involuntary lay-off, by your doctor, is that like the soldier being taken off the battlefield?
Good luck, Jay, maybe your mindbody needs some rest & recovery, but hopefully not 4-6 months.
tt |
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tdk
15 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 08:34:57
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I used to be a runner, completed one marathon eons ago. IMO, stress fractures are real and can result from too much training.
As much as we may want to attribute everything to tms, there are real injuries out there (trust me, if I were in an accident and broke something I would get to a doctor). I would take it easy for 4-6 weeks then ask to be re-xrayed for proof of healing. You will probably be fine by then. I agree w/TT, 4-6 months sounds excessive.
Love those "scary" docs. I think they do this to cover their asses and not get sued.
Good luck!
TDK |
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jayjb2001
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 10:05:22
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| TT - Thanks, you make some excellent points. I have been under alot of stress lately, so I think you're on to something in terms of the injury removing the pressure to train and hence the pain going away. On the other hand, besides getting a second opinion I don't see much alternative here to following the doctors orders. Sure, the fracture could have been there for years for all I know, but it seems too risky to continue to train until it's repaired. As for the 4-6 month period of time, i'm sure that part of that is doctor's caution, but I also understand that certain stress fractures take longer to heal since it's difficult to immobilize the area. |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 10:30:20
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I've run for over 25 years, and write a weekly column on running for the newspaper. Obviously, stress fractures are real injuries often seen in beginners. However, I've never once heard of a runner getting a stress fracture of the sacrum. Tibia, yes, and occasionally women get them in the pelvic area, but never heard of one in the sacrum. A stress fracture will heal in about 6-12 weeks if left alone. Also, the test to ACCURATELY diagnose a stress fracture has always been something called a "bone scan" which is performed after the patient ingests a speical dye. The reason for this method is that stress fractures (especially in early stages) are so "hairline" as to be imperceptable with other diagnostic tools. I'm not a doctor, but I wonder if the MRI should be called into question.
Incidentally Dr. Sopher, a marathon runner himself, talks about an Ironman triathlete who developed similar pains right before the Hawaii competition. Turned out to be TMS http://www.tms-mindbodymedicine.com/ |
Edited by - Texasrunner on 10/15/2004 10:32:44 |
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jayjb2001
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 11:17:55
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TexasRunner - Sacrum stress fractures are apparently more common that you might think. I had never heard of it either, but after doing some research I've learned that it's not unusual in competitive distance runners.
My stress fracture has clearly appeared on MRI, though we are doing a CT to confirm the extent of it. As far as the example that Dr. Sopher sights, I'm all too familiar with it since I "know" that person well. In that case, it was TMS - the pain reduced during the race and went away completely by the end. This time the pain increased during the race and continued long afterwards. |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 11:47:35
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Yes, you may be right. Here is a very informative link about sacral stress fractures in runners: http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2003/0203/fred.htm
Apparenly, MRI's can be used effectively for this type of stress fracture. Regardless, the treatment for them is always the same. Stop training until pain free (6-12 weeks) |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 11:53:02
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| My feeling (after dealing with lots of running injuries) is that athletes present a unique challenge. The reason is there are phases of real injuries from onset, to chronic. It's the "chronic" part that becomes suspect as TMS. Still, I've healed "chronic" injuries with physical modalities. So, ultimately, it comes down to whatever magic works. No question TMS accounts for lots of misery. But does that mean all runners with injuries have TMS? That would be about 100% of folks that run... |
Edited by - Texasrunner on 10/15/2004 11:54:16 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 09:48:14
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Dear Jay,
I'm still suspect of your "stree fracture" diagnosis. The on-set of my chronic TMS was lower back-pain,(more accuartely, a big emotional relationship breakup). It was diagnosed by a chiro as "pinched nerve" at L-4/L-5. It didn't go away, so I tried numerous non-doctor modalities. Got excruciating pain in a yoga class and went to the bookstore, "Back Pain Shelf". Discovered Sarnos's MIND OVER BACK. This eppiphany, cured my back by 90% but mainly changed my brain.
I had some lingering pain, so eventually found a doc who trained with Sarno and he ordered x-rays. This was the first "real" doc I saw. Lo, and behold, the radiological report said "significant" arthritis of the rt. hip. I was dimfounded (sp), I mean dumbfounded, but "dim" is as accurate. Me, with ARTHRITIS?-that's for old people. I want something more exciting, from the sports-injury books, like throcanteric bursitis or piriformis syndrome or I-T band. Arthritis is not going to play well on the cock-tail circuit. Everyone I run, (hobble), around with, is on their 2nd hip replacement. I'm the only hold-out.
The arthritis dx, I feel, has hindered my complete recovery for years. I went back to the doc a couple of years later and the doc stuck with his (the radiologist's) dx, with the proviso, that he was a "back" specialist and not a hip specialist. This admission raised a big red flag for me. I am dx'ing myself with TMS.
Back to you Jay; I think you should take off for as long as you need to. You definitely don't want to create a chronic TMS site as I have. For whatever psycholigical reason, I didn't do what had fixed every other sports injury I had, RICE. Instead I played through the pain, physical and EMOTIONAL. I think my great emotional pain forced me to keep exercising to escape from it (her). My mantra became "you can learn from pain"-but I don't necessarily think it's the smartest way to go.
I wish I had beeen diagnosed with a stress fracture because that heals stronger in 6-12 weeks. They don't know what causes arthritis,(TMS perhaps?), or a cure for it. I guess we won't be seeing all the Vioxx commercials with the danceing seniors anymore. Outside of the femur, it seems, the pelvis would be one of the strongest bones in the body. Why wouldn't a stess fracture rear itself in one of the lower leg bones which would seem more subsceptible to it?
Jay, I am not reccommending you play through your injury-definitely not. In retrospect,I wish I had rested early on in mine. I was reacting more to the long lay off your doc was saying and also your fear state. It sounds like you can still swim, that's a good thing.
Good luck and listen to your body with TMS ears.
tt |
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stress fracture?
