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Kavita
USA
47 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2004 : 08:01:41
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First of all, I must express my complete gratitude to all of you who have participated in the forum for your willingness to share your experience. It helps to know I am not alone. I discovered Sarno a couple of months ago, and believe he hit the nail on the head. I had a back injury at work moving boxes, and since have rather strong pain along back, towards the sides, particularly the right. Over the last month the pain increased in my neck and shoulder, also the right side. At first I was encouraged because moving pain shows progess in recovery. However, the pain is increasing, and I am becoming increasingly depressed.
I have journaled, writing down all the things that upset me, much of which dates to my early adolescence, when I was repeated insulted by a family member about my weight. Interestingly, neither my peers, nor anyone else, ever said anything. I can identify with another forum member, Michelle, who said that a lot of her repressed anger is towards her husband - I am having the same experience. I thought that identifying the source of my rage would help me move forward, but it doesn't seem to have done anything.
I've noticed that when my back pain is bad my rage increases, but I can't tell which is the cause and which is the effect. Do I get angry and depressed because my back is hurting? It doesn't seem like it works the other way around.
I am not currently in any therapy or taking any medications, though I did a couple of rounds of PT in the past, as well as some acupuncture.
Do you have any suggestions? I was wondering if you recommend Mind Over Back Pain in addition to Healing Back Pain. It appears to be more psychology, which I am not particularly interested in, but if there are more strategies for treatment then I might be interested. Have any of you benefited from the MindBody Workbook? Is it essentially the same as journaling on your own?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post. |
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billstets
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 09:10:18
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| I wish I could help you. I'm pretty new to this and i am not sure what works yet. |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 09:39:23
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First of all -itīs (often) a long process!
For me about a year before I really got better and nearly painfree and
most important of all- not afraid of the pain.
Second: Donīt stress the process. Do not try to hard. Just do it and try not to judge yourself when you are in pain.
Do the work, "think tms", try to live your life as normal as you can, donīt focus on the pain, try to laugh at it. And donīt focus to much on if you sucess or not. Be patient. Have a longterm perspektive.
I think itīs easy in the beginning to "try to hard", to be the "perfect tms-person". And you do not benefit from that.
If you go slow and steady and live your life as normal as you can -the chanses that you will be painfree (or nearly painfree) is very good!
That I can assure you.
Kajsa (who dosnīt write perfect english but I think you get my point)
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 10:34:15
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Dear Kavita,
Welcome to the TMShelp Forun. I copied some quotes from your post, that exhibit some inconsitencies, I think, to Sarno's theory that may be stumbling blocks to your being pain-free:
"I had a back injury at work moving boxes,"
"I am not currently in any therapy or taking any medications,"
"I thought that identifying the source of my rage would help me"
"It appears to be more psychology, which I am not particularly" interested in,
The best thing you can do is read and re-read Sarno's books until you can quote them verbatim. I read all three of his books, twice each, slowly, word for word-and I am "sorely" due for a re-reading, so that I can be confident knowing what I am talking about. If I get any of this wrong I hope my fellow TMS'ers will chime in so that I stay on the right course.
I would also reccommend doing a search for Dave's archived posts, since he knows what he is talking about and gets to the heart of the matter.
Some where in Sarno, he says, that the back is STRONG and that you cannot do any serious, long term damage to your back, such as by moving boxes. That kind of injury is a TMS trigger. Your pain should decrease with time and not get worse as you stated.
You mentioned that you are not "currently" in any PT. The word "currently" to me, belies a hope that some PT out there will be a magic bullet to fix your pain. I have tried, over a period of ten years, every form of body work, supplement and snake oil, costing thousands of dollars and they were a waste of time and money and only offered fleeting placebo effect. If they worked, why would I be here now?
You do not have to identify the source of your rage. It is buried in your sub-conscious. You need only accept Sarno's theory that it is the cause of the pain and stop FEARING it. FEAR is the VOLUME CONTROL for our pain. Stop the fear-stop the pain. I've proven this to myself on numerous occasions as I got better at TMS thinking. I've quickly fixed and banished many twinges of pain, panic attacks and other TMS emotional equivalents.
I believe you should deal with rage creating situations in the NOW to prevent them from being repressed and adding to the TMS well of repressed emotions. EXPRESS your emotions-don't REPRESS. Deal with current problems head-on. Ratioalize it, fix it or accept that it is out of your power to do anything about now and let go of it.
TMS is all about PSYCHOOLOGY so you are going to have to deal with YOUR psyche to fix your TMS. When I first started reading Sarno, I bought a psych dictionary to help with the terms, I was still somewhat confused about all that Id, ego and super ego stuff. So I bought another psych dictionary and then a third. I still can't remember the difference between an id and a super-ego and i don't really care. But Sarno's theory is based upon Freud and othr noted psychologists. So the mind matters in TMS work-it is the physical stuff that is inconsequntial. The good thing about that is that you can "cure" yourself wherever you take your mind: in bed, on a plane, in a car, at work, in a hot-tub (my personal favorite),etc. To get cured from TMS you don't need to make an appointment, drive somewhere, and pay someone a lot of money for a 12 session series.
Welcome to TMSland Kavita, hope this helps.
tt
p.s. Don't worry about your post being long. That concern exhibits some of your TMS "goodism". As you can see, I am very long-winded and I don't feel at all bad about it anymore. No one forces us to read anyone's posts, and this post will probably do me more good than you. Dave always has the power to give us the hook if we take up too much server space. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 12:25:50
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Hi Kavita! I don't have many answers either, as I'm still learning what works for me. I think everyone must find that "key" for THEM. Since I read Sarno's books, I've also read Dr. Marc Sopher's book, and am working my way through Dr. Schechter's Mindbody Workbook. I was never much of a journaler (is that a word?) but the workbook has forced me to stop, think, and write - which is a good thing.
Yes, I think some of my internal rage is/was caused by my husband, and I love him to death. But the perfectionist in me wants everybody around me to be flawless. He's not flawless - and neither am I. After 24 sometimes rocky years, I have some anger I need to acknowledge and I'm still working on it.
I do believe that alot of RAGE I have is from my childhood, which is even harder to reach. I am a survivor of sexual molestation and my pain is in my hips. Makes sense! I am working with a sex therapist on digging up those emotions, facing them, and then not fearing them anymore. Tough work. And if you'd told me I would be seeing a sex therapist 20 years ago, I would have laughed in your face. If you'd told me I'd be posting it on a forum, I'd have hid in the closet! Guess I'm making progress! ;)
In all the reading, writing, and listening to CDs, one of the common messages is "SURRENDER AND ACCEPTANCE". That thought goes through my head alot. I'm a runner, and the other thing that goes through my head is to stop fearing the pain - you are not going to get hurt. I also stopped "feeding" the pain and stopped seeing my chiropractor. I have treated with a chiropractor for 30 years, so that habit was a little harder to break. Interestingly enough, I haven't suffered since my decision to stop going.
Good luck! We're all here to support each other! |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 13:36:38
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I think doing that which you are the most frightened to do is key to recovery. For me, it is always weight-training. Over the past few months, while dealing with my elbow injury, there have been many times when I decided to forego weight-training in order to allow my elbow to heal only to find the pain get worse. Of those times that I have considered skipping a workout and ended up working out, the pain actually gets better!
I try and speak to my brain. My favorite thing to say after or during a workout is: "I realize that the pain may increase tomorrow, but I will not let pain deter me from continuing my training, so do your worst brain, because I am not afraid." I find that talking to your brain helps a lot. You may not think your sub-conscious is listening, but it always is. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 13:58:34
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Dear Kajsa,
I think your English is cute  and you express yourelf very well  .
tt |
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billstets
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 14:53:09
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I hate to write a long post, but maybe some of this will resonate with some of you. Being that I'm new to this, there are three things that I struggle with a little:
First, I accept the concept of TMS fully and believe that it applies to me. I've read healing Back Pain and Mind Body, and I feel that I inderstand it. Why do I have to reread it over and over? I really get it, so isn't it enough to sit and reflect on the concepts and on the things that might be causing rage?
Second, I've written down the things that might be causing rage, none of which fall into the really serious categories that often require psychoanalysis according to Sarno. Mostly just standard life pressure stuff. I'm not sure I get the "journaling" that people talk about on this forum. I don't feel anger about the things on my list, which I assume is because that anger is in my unconscious. I have trouble thinking about them, because there's not much to think about. Family pressures, for example, that infringe on my personal time to do the things I really want to do. Ok. What do I think about regarding that issue for a full 15 or 30 minutes? I think about the idea for a minute or so, and then I can't continue to focus on it because there's no rage or anything, and my mind seems to want to shift away to something else, maybe because I just have a lot of stuff on my mind and there's just not a lot to dwell on there. If I'm in a lot of pain, I also have a hard time not thinking about the pain. I'm having trouble "thinking psychologically," I guess because I don't know how. The weird thing is that in my past, before I really had TMS, I had more sadness for sure, and in those days I could probably have had some things to focus on psychologically. Now, I feel a kinda numb emotionally. I guess TMS has succeeded in its repression of my emotions!
Finally, while I think I have embraced the diagnosis, I still have some doubts, only because I don't fit the mold 100%, not because I hold on to the notion that there may be structural problems. I have a disc herniation at L5/S1 that was operated on in 2001, and the operation only lessened the pain a little, but did not eliminate it, so it wasn't even a placebo! I know there's nothing structurally wrong there to explain my pain, and what's more, I now also have pain (often worse) on the other side that cannnot be explained structurally. I don't have terrible childhood traumas that have led to massive rage. I don't think I'm exactly the kind of person (perfectionist for example) that Sarno describes, although my wife might disagree! I certainly have my share of life pressures, as most everyone does. I am not living in fear of activity - I work out almost every morning with weights and cardio before work. I ski in the winter, and do work around the house. I stopped jogging because it made my radicular leg pain worse, but I kept trying for a long time (pre and post surgery), and I was never scared. I also don't have those acute pain attacks that Sarno talks about, and I don't have pain that worsens when I'm under stress. My problem is simple, it hurts like hell to sit! To make matters worse, I didn't get a definitive diagnosis from Sarno. Following his advice, I found a doctor who deals with TMS and he examined me. I have tenderness in two of those three tender spots (butt and shoulder), though interestingly not in my lumbar muscles. But I do have tenderness on the side of the thigh near the knee, and I didn't even know about that until he poked me there! In his words, I'm a "good candidate for TMS," which is a little less definitive than I would have liked, especially since some of the other things don't exactly fit. So I have a small amount of doubt and I hope that doesn't keep me from getting better. |
Edited by - billstets on 10/20/2004 14:58:41 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 15:23:40
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Billstets,
You expressed that you have some lingering doubts about your TMS. Go back to Sarno or the other TMS doc you mentioned and discuss your doubts with them just as you did in your post. I assume you or your insurance company paid them good money and as you would do with your car if it squeaked, keep taking yourself back until they get the job done right for you.
The reason you need to read Sarno over and over is because you still have lingering doubts that your problem is physical. Every time I read Sarno I find something I missed. The answers are between the covers. I wish I was near a TMS doc for maintenance and that white-coat confirmation.
Sarno is written for everyone. You don't have be an aberrent psych. text book case to have TMS. If your breathing you have it or are subscptible to it. It's just that a few of us have discovered Sarno and are open-minded enough and have strong enough egos to do the soul-searching work.
Hope this helps,
tt |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 00:33:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Dear Kajsa,
I think your English is cute and you express yourelf very well .
tt
Thkank you !
My everyday life is mucch about writing correct (I am a journalist and a
librarian).
For me (who is a perfectionist) itīs a big relief (and challenge!) to
skip the dicitionary and the grammar and just write what I wanīt to say and relay on that YOU folks understand me.
All the best,
Kajsa |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 00:37:00
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[quote]Originally posted by Kajsa
[quote]Originally posted by tennis tom
Dear Kajsa,
Thkank mucch
Hm....but I know how to spell these words:
THANK MUCH
I promise!
Kajsa
Kajsa |
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billstets
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 06:58:03
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Billstets,
You expressed that you have some lingering doubts about your TMS. Go back to Sarno or the other TMS doc you mentioned and discuss your doubts with them just as you did in your post. I assume you or your insurance company paid them good money and as you would do with your car if it squeaked, keep taking yourself back until they get the job done right for you.
The reason you need to read Sarno over and over is because you still have lingering doubts that your problem is physical. Every time I read Sarno I find something I missed. The answers are between the covers. I wish I was near a TMS doc for maintenance and that white-coat confirmation.
Sarno is written for everyone. You don't have be an aberrent psych. text book case to have TMS. If your breathing you have it or are subscptible to it. It's just that a few of us have discovered Sarno and are open-minded enough and have strong enough egos to do the soul-searching work.
Hope this helps,
tt
I hear you, but I don't think I really believe my problem is physical, at least not due to my disc herniation. Since I've had the surgery, the doctors are pretty much mystified and try to make up things, like scar tissue or nerve damage, but they admit they really don't know. I don't buy any of that and find TMS to be much more logical. It just would have been nice to have Sarno (or the TMS doc I went to) give me a more definitive diagnosis. |
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New to forum, any guidance?
