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Paul
134 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2008 : 11:41:57
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I've posted here many times on the subject of Levator Ani Syndrome. Basically it is rectal muscle pain and spasm and it is just horrible. Luckily, there have been a few here who have beat this complex health issue.
In any case, I decided to make a forum online dedicated to levator ani syndrome or rectal pain/spasm. It is at this site...appropriately titled...
www . stopbuttpain . com
Moderators, please understand I'm not trying to spam this board. I've posted here many times over the years and I'm grateful for the people here. My hope is that the posters here who have BEAT this condition to please post also at the new forum to help others and if you also suffer from this unique disorder, please post as well. Of course, feel free to post here in this forum as well...I'm simply trying to bring more focus to this condition and wanted to make a unique forum dedicated to it.
I even made some sections on TMS in the new forum. :)
Thank you! |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2008 : 12:49:01
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Good luck Paul. Just keep in mind that the more attention you give LAS, the more you validate it as a distinct medical entity, the more difficult it will be to conquer (in my opinion). LAS is almost certainly TMS. Its not even a TMS equivalent. Its no different than a tension headache or low backache; its psychosomatic musculoskeletal pain with a different muscle group as its primary focus. It should respond to the same TMS treatment algorithm: (1) Fully accept and believe the TMS diagnosis; (2) REJECT THE FACT THAT ANYTHING ELSE MAY BE GOING ON (here is where I think the problem lies in focusing on LAS independent of TMS); (3) Slowly recondition your mind and your body; and (4) Resume all normal activity without reservation.
I understand that this all sounds fine and dandy, but when you're the one with refractory pain it is much more difficult to hear. Nevertheless, I urge you to still stick with it while simultaneously pursuing your interests. Best of luck Paul!
Best,
MK |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2008 : 14:20:01
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Thanks MK, I appreciate your post.
And you are right, when one has this bad pain that won't go away, it gets hard. To be honest, when it comes to Levator Ani Syndrome...I have met people online who have beat it one or two ways.
One with internal PT and relaxation, working out the muscle knots.
One as TMS.
That is what makes this syndrome so hard to beat...people have beat it in varies ways, but many who have it, struggle with it and eventually just live with it and suffer quietly. Trust me, if you have not experienced it, it is horrible. Not to put down back pain, but I would take that anyday over this.
In any case, I know what you mean by keeping the focus on it with the forum. I guess in a way I wanted to make a universal spot for others who have this AND most importantly, get the word out on it AS TMS. I have dedicated part of the forum to this aspect...most "pelvic pain" forums simply neglect or ignore the TMS approach. I don't want too. There have been VALUABLE posters on here like Carolyn who actually beat this as TMS and not only replied to my posts with absolutely fantastic information, but also some of the greatest emails to me explaining everything. I have not since been able to contact her because her email has expired/deleted. I can't thank her enough, bless her soul. I kept all her emails in a folder and still read them for hope to this day.
In any case, TMS makes the most logical sense to me and I've had good times using the approach...but when times get bad, I start thinking of the PT route, etc. and doubt, fear, all set back in. The thing is, the tightness or pain never fully goes away...it only fluctuates. That is what keeps the whole idea of muscle knots or trigger points alive in my mind. That maybe they need "worked out" and are stuck.
It's a tough road, but after nearly 10+ years with this, I can not stop now. |
Edited by - Paul on 10/13/2008 14:22:18 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 09:17:40
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MK is absolutely right.
LAS IS TMS. Just like Fibromyalgia is TMS. Just like a large number of other "syndromes" are TMS.
Once you call it a "syndrome" you give it life and can no longer treat it as TMS.
So, if you want to go down that path, please do not mix TMS in there because it makes no sense. If you do not understand how this approach is entirely contradictory to TMS then you really don't understand TMS at a fundamental level. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 09:47:35
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I will be honest, this is where I am stuck and this causes so much confusing and stress in my mind...
I have met people online who have beat this horrible rectal spasm, tightness and pain two radically different ways...
1. TMS Approach
2. The Physical Therapy Approach
There are a few on here that beat this pain as TMS...Carolyn, who does not post here anymore, was one that had nearly identical pain that I had. She beat it as TMS.
There are others who said that doing the internal trigger point therapy/massage was absolutely essential to them healing. This was on pelvic pain related boards. They also combined it with relaxation.
So one is a totally hands on approach, and one is a totally not.
Considering I've had this "knot" in my bum for over 10 years now (and all tests show nothing but really bad muscle knots, tension, etc.) I guess I worry that the muscles have changed. By this I mean if you have muscles that are in a constant state of spasm, they shorten, etc. The theory with the PT approach is to lengthen them, thus bringing them back to a state of un-tension and increase blood and oxygen.
When the pain is so bad that after having a bowel movement, sometimes I nearly can pass out due to the sharp or dull pain...it is scary and REALLY hard to wrap my mind around it just being caused by the mind. It is just SO physical.
But then again...just about 3 weeks ago, I had about 4-5 days the pain was so low I could have EASILY lived with it at that level.
This up and down, unpredictably of it has caused me to have SO much fear in my life because I don't know if and when it will be REALLY bad...and I fear traveling, and many other things because when the pain is this bad...I don't want to be anywhere but home.
Sorry, I'm venting my frustrations. I have this tug-a-war going on in my mind going between these two treatments. By the way, I did the PT treatment for a while on my own...only seemed to irritate things and make things worse. But many say you have to stay with it a long time, not just a few months like I did.
I swear, I just feel cursed.  |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:07:14
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Paul, the question remains: WHY are your muscles that way? That's where the emotional component comes in.
Similar to: Why are some people allergic to a substance and others have no reaction to it? What has put their body in that state of sensitivity? Emotions.
I think that even though something may go away with p/t, the root of the problem (emotional) is not being addressed. I don't personally want to risk what else will appear in the physical form if the emotion is not addressed. P/T is not a permanent healer because the SOURCE of the problem is not addressed.
Keep in mind our beliefs play a major role here. If someone truly believes the p/t will solve their problem, it probably will. But then the risk in the paragraph above still stands.
As usual, I'm going to suggest some emotional exploration in the form of journaling. I'm also going to check my two mind/body books to see what it suggests could be the emotion related to any rectal issue. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul
I will be honest, this is where I am stuck and this causes so much confusing and stress in my mind...
I have met people online who have beat this horrible rectal spasm, tightness and pain two radically different ways...
1. TMS Approach
2. The Physical Therapy Approach
You have to choose a path. They are incompatible.
Unless you are able to commit 100% to the TMS approach, and accept that these symptoms are psychogenic, and repudiate all of the structural explanations, and cease all physical treatments, then you might as well abandon TMS and go down the physical treatment path.
Until such time that you are ready to accept the TMS diagnosis and all that goes along with it, and dismiss the physical treatments, you cannot expect relief. 100% commitment is required. Any focus on the physical realm is contradictory to TMS treatment.
So, you have to choose. You cannot have it both ways. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:14:50
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You need a 100% commitment to TMS for it to "work." Tension is the big T in TMS. As you know, the idea is that when emotions are explored and addressed, the tension in the muscles begins to unwind and so, the pain diminishes.
Louise Hay believes that there are metaphorical correlations to our pain. For example, my neck pain (in her book) is a metaphor for inflexibility, and that hits my nail right on the head.
As with all physical tension, it's often representative of the fact that there's something we don't want to let go of. We're bracing ourselves. Fearful? Perhaps. Or we are resisting the release of something, resisting nature. Perhaps something deep within us is hurting and we are afraid to open the lid on it, afraid to see it and experience it...Maybe it would be too painful.
I would agree with everyone here, that exploring your emotions will provide relief, but again, you must be 100% committed to a TMS diagnosis. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:42:27
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"As usual, I'm going to suggest some emotional exploration in the form of journaling. I'm also going to check my two mind/body books to see what it suggests could be the emotion related to any rectal issue."
I would love to know what you find.
Also, I wonder what Louise Hay would say is the root cause of rectal pain/spasm.
I do agree I can't do both methods. I've actually done the more PT route with no luck...but only did it for a few months. I know bottomline one has to realize WHY the tension is in those muscles and I agree with that. I guess my point is, wouldn't a set of muscles that have been cramped for 10 plus years change? Wouldn't they need to have PT to be brought back to normal. Many say yes, many so no.
THAT is my dilemma mentally.
I REALLY appreciate all the posts and support here. All of you are great and it means a lot.
I will continue to journal and do what I can. Maybe it is so bad lately because I HAVE been journaling the last week or so. Who knows. |
Edited by - Paul on 10/16/2008 12:44:26 |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 13:04:49
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Hi Paul,
If you allow yourself to think that there's something going on with your muscles, that they've changed or are changing and they have to be changed back, you'll be consumed with the physical again. Get rid of the emotional conflict, tension and anger and the muscles will relax. REALLY! TMS is harmless muscle tension. It can cause tremendous pain, yes, but it's harmless. Let harmless sink in. Your muscles are still the same ol', same ol'. Human bodies are shockingly resilient.
So here's the list from L. Hay in the rectal category:
"Hemorrhoids: releasing point. Dumping ground. New thought pattern: I easily and comfortably release that which I no longer need in life.
Abscess: anger in relation to what you don't want to release. New thought pattern: It is safe to let go. Only that which I no longer need leaves my body.
Fistula: Incomplete releasing of trash. Holding on to the garbage of the past. New thought pattern: It is with love that I totally release the past. I am free. I am love.
Itching: Guilt over the past. Remorse. New thought pattern: I lovingly forgive myself. I am free.
Pain: Guilt. Desire for punishment. Not feeling good enough. New thought pattern: The past is over. I choose to love and approve of myself in the now."
The 'not feeling good enough' thing is pretty universal. There's some discussion on the "changing your personality" thread. Good luck and importantly...
IF YOU HAD NO LUCK WITH PT, WHY EVEN CONSIDER INVESTING MORE TIME AND MONEY IN IT? |
Edited by - winnieboo on 10/16/2008 13:54:46 |
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SarnoFan
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 21:28:39
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I've followed your posts and read Carolyn's too. There are too few of us on the TMS pages: (I cut and pasted this from my profile and is my first post).I finally decided to jump in. Here's my story: Overcame backpain in 2000 after reading Dr. Sarno's books. 8 years later had pelvic surgery and started having perineal/rectal/thigh/groin pain after 2 months. I went to the ER worried my surgery had failed. No diagnosis was made after CT, MRI, U/S, etc. Lasted 16 months! Drove my family NUTS. Again, no Dr., chiro, PT, website, etc. could help me. They all INCREASED my symptoms. I cried daily. Stopped work and lost my income. I was losing my mind. I could not walk, lift, sit etc. Then I realized, Aha! It could be TMS!! So I struggled with it a bit longer because my symptoms were so strong my mind went back to worring that the doctors did miss something physical. Then I stopped PT (it worked only temporarily)and worrying about it. I thought I had PN (Pudendal Neuralgia) and even a doctor confirmed it! She wanted to try steroid injections. I got a panic attack thinking about it. Another doctor said it was procitis (I also got anal fissures for the fist time in my life and sphincter spasms and well as breath stopping rectal spasms in the middle of the night). Told it will never go away and would need suppositories daily for the rest of my life. A proctologist said it's levator ani syndrome and sent me to PT. Another Dr. friend said scar tissue or fibromyalgia. --STOP!!!--- I decided to ignore everything.
I finally realized I went through this process when I had back pain years ago. I went back to my Sarno books. Two months later I'm 95% better. When I stress out or am disappointed, I take a hot bath and relax. I say "this too shall pass". I don't let myself go into a "black hole of doubt and hopelessness" but I do struggle with anxiety on/off. I wish doctors could help people using TMS theory first instead of throwing incurable diseases/syndromes at them. I'm still de-programming myself away from the physical and fear. That 5% of pain left can easily go full blown if I let it. >>>>>
Now my 17 year old son started with low back pain! It has become chronic for several months now and he's getting depressed. Doctors, scans etc. can't find a cause. PT, chiro, massage, etc. haven't helped. Some days he's better. He must have "caught" the emotional triggers from me!! He's stressed out now that he can't compete in his sport. His plans revolve around his back. He can't put his socks on and he's a fit athlete. I made him watch the Sarno lecture series and remind him he's okay. He says he belives it and goes plays his sport only to be in pain the next day. So he starts doubting. It is hard when you try to help others. They need to have their own "Aha" moment and keep the faith. I will update when he is cured! |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 10:18:38
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Thanks for your post SarnoFan, anyone with Levator Ani Syndrome success should post here as it is a horrible thing to live with.
So you have had 2 solid months of 95% pain reduction? |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:12:19
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Paul-
I see you are still on here and am sorry that you are still suffering. I am just checking back because I need a little Sarno refresher as I have the 'ick' uneasy feeling again and am making sure I don't allow it to settle in anywhere in my body.
I have to say as I read this post it does still seem that you are still waffling. A little tough love here just because I really want to see you get better... I will sound like a broken record but honestly physical therapy made me worse- much worse. You can't go three months thinking, OK I'll take the Sarno approach and then another three thinking you'll try physical therapy, then back to Sarno for another try. Maybe the key will actually be after the three months of journaling, just when you are giving up and about to try another form of physical treatment to just shout NO! to your brain and refuse the physical therapy. I don't just mean decide to put it off or not to do it, I mean really shout *%&%&^* ^$#%#!% NO!!!! Dig your heels in and refuse to give into that nagging little voice that keeps telling you there is something physically wrong with you.
I'm sure your heart is in the right place with your new web site and I haven't checked it out but I would agree that it just seems like something that gives validity to Levator Ani Syndrome and that gives it power over you. I don't have Levator Ani Syndrome, I never did, you never did, the doctors just told us we did. We had emotionally-induced muscle tension that just happened to focus itself there. You are NEVER going to get rid of it by massaging those muscles. Maybe you met someone on-line who thinks that's how they did it but maybe their emotional state changed and it was just time for it ot move on, or maybe they have another physical problen that has taken over.
I am cured- still. I haven't even had a twinge in longer than I can remember- although just stating that will probably give me a twinge soon as it brings it back to the front of my mind. But that doesn't scare me because I know what it is and I can get rid of it easily. It is not true that once the muscles hold the tension for a long time, they can never be normal again. It's just NOT TRUE. I think I may deal with TMS the rest of my life in one way or another and it seems like just about everyone I know does as well, whether they know it or not. I get new symptoms and sometimes I am slow to recognize that that it is TMS but once I do, I can keep it on the run.
You know what you have to do!
Carolyn
Carolyn |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:43:56
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| Thanks for posting Carolyn, I've always wondered how you have been doing. I will keep the course as always. I've had breaks, it is just getting through the tough times of pain mentally that is hard. Thanks again! |
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SarnoFan
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 23:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul
Thanks for your post SarnoFan, anyone with Levator Ani Syndrome success should post here as it is a horrible thing to live with.
So you have had 2 solid months of 95% pain reduction?
Yes, like Carolyn, I refuse to call it anything but tension. When it starts to bug me, or hits me like a 'ton of bricks' I actually smile, take a deep breath and say here it is...my tension. I release it from my mind and it subsides. I don't panic, I don't give it power. I just realize that it is where my tension creates symptoms. That is the 5% that is left now and I don't let it get out of hand. I make sure I sleep well...uh not tonight because I had friends over and they just left...but normally I go before 11pm. I used to stay up all night worrying about the pain and other symptoms and if I will ever be normal.
Well, I now accept that I'm a worrier and that I do this to myself. It used to be back pain, now it is this. Yesterday my foot started hurting and I couldn't walk, and I laughed at it. I really thought it was ridiculous. It was gone the next day.
You see, you really have to 'acknowledge' that it is a silly, but painful expression, of your fears, tensions and insecurities. That's all it is.
When your emotional tension is reduced -consistently-your physical symptoms take much longer to reduce (4-6 times longer). Therefore, if you lose patience with them, they will not go away.
The 5% is now only painful B.M.s (a little tension is still there) but I am patient that this will subside over time so it never escalates. I do not worry about it anymore. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 08:19:38
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| Great, now it seems I have small hemorrhoids to add to this. I guess it only makes sense since there is so much tension down there. Ugh. :( |
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Levator Ani Syndrome...
