| Author |
 Topic  |
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2008 : 13:24:48
|
I searched for posts on the economy but found very little so here goes ...
I am scared to death of the recession. In fact, I believe that we are headed for a huge Depression that will make the "dirty thirties" look mild. I am talking serious pain and suffering ahead. If you think I'm wrong, please don't waste time trying to change my mind. We all have to face hard times (ex: death, illness, loss of every kind) so coping skills will come in handy even if the economy miraculously recovers.
So, the question is: How do we cope with disaster when denial runs out?
Btw, I have read Sarno's books and had great success with various TMS ailments. |
|
|
tcherie
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 14:55:03
|
The more I read other individual's thoughts, I really being to realize the core of TMS. Dr. Sarno's stated that its a certain type of personality that is more prone to developing this condition. On this forum, I hear people who sound like me in their thoughts. But being an observer, I am able to look at it from an outside perspective and realize how we start developing tension.
One thing I always prided myself on was not living in the "now". Always being prepared for the "what ifs" of life. But the "what ifs" do not bother certain people, or they do not let it bother them. I do not think this is a form of repression, because I do think some people are able to release some of their challenges on a real time basis, instead of storing it within their bodies.
I also focus on the future. But I realize that thinking about the future is starting to paralyze me. I do not have this problem under control yet, but I recognize it.
Only focus on the "hope" that the future can bring, not the threat.
Live in the "now" when a pleasant moment happens. Enjoy it fully. If the "now" is not that pleasant, focus on the hope that the future can bring, not the threat. |
Edited by - tcherie on 12/08/2008 14:56:00 |
 |
|
|
Erata
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 14:56:07
|
Hi, njoy,
I'm relieved to hear someone voice this fear. Most people I talk to either don't want to know or think that we'll recover from the 'recession' in the near future. Because of what I do for a living, I've been tracking the economy for several years and have been very, very alarmed at trends that have been in the making for years, if not decades. (The state unemployment agency where I live told me months ago that businesses are shutting down 'right and left' and in the past year, I've lost half my client base with no new business in sight.)
I wish that I had suggestions for coping techniques that have helped me. I'm hoping to recover from 'Fibromyalgia' and a herniated disc, but, to be realistic, the stress of an acrimonious divorce and other worries about the future have been impeding my hope for recovery.
I’ll pass on some ideas I’m planning to try:
Perhaps, understanding the reality, it might be wise to take a break from listening to the news, which ratchets up anxiety, at least for me. That doesn't mean choosing to be in denial, but giving the mindbody a break from the endless onslaught of bad news.
Read some inspirational books, like Eckart Tolle (The Power of Now), Jack Kornfield, etc.
Try to talk to friends and family about formulating some kind of plan to help one another out if jobs, housing, etc. are lost. If someone doesn’t want to know or isn’t interested, move on—at least give it a shot and know you tried. If nobody wants to participate, maybe there’s a group of people nearby who have already come together.
Animal shelters are overwhelmed, due to foreclosures and people abandoning their pets. If possible, given the circumstances, and it’s not an additional burden, an adopted pet will give back the comfort it’s offered (and more).
There's not a darn thing anyone can do about the economy but add it to the list of items you can't do anything about. I agree with you, but also remember how worrying impacts the body, especially if the disaster hasn’t yet occurred.
|
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 00:05:36
|
Thanks for the responses. Erata, I feel happier just hearing someone acknowledge what is going on. Tcherie, I totally agree that fully appreciating every moment is important. But so is preparing for the future. I have read several books about Jews waiting for the Nazis to invade during WW2. Some just waited; others got the heck out of Poland. I have no idea what the modern solution might be but if there is one I want to find it.
Everywhere I go, people are doing their best to be positive. Admirable, I suppose, if they are being brave. But it looks more like denial to me and that is not the same as living in "the now".
I'd like to keep this thread going, if possible. A group journal, so to speak.
|
|
|
|
scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 05:27:28
|
recession, huh? time to learn to bow hunt methinks.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
|
|
|
|
Northerner
62 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 08:40:36
|
I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened.
- Mark Twain
Yes, the economy stinks right now. My field is very tied to the unemployment rate; in the last recession, revenues in my field fell off by 44%.
I am a consultant, and never have more than 3 months work in front of me. I may not get any new work next year; I’m fearing that I’ll have nothing to do next year, as many people are. Yes, that’s scary, but being a solo operator, it also makes me more nimble. I (probably) have work for the next 6 weeks. That gives me 6 weeks to develop new work while I’m still getting paid (and when I’m working, I get paid well).
The moral of the story is, figure out what makes you nimble, and do what you can to take the edge off the recession. You don’t have to fear a depression – the government, as goofy as they can seem sometimes, is doing the right things to pre-empt an economic cataclysm. Yes, there will be pain, but no depression.
My guess is that your financial needs are less than 1% of the gross domestic product – you only need to pay for yourself and perhaps for your family, not 1.25-million auto workers. If you’re a classic anal TMS’er, do what you’re good at – being a perfectionist pain - and develop a plan to weather the recession. Start by drawing the horror floor – the worst that can happen:
If the worst thing happens, will you be
1) dying of malnutrition and lacking basic necessities and selling off your organs to stay alive … or
2) lacking a roof over your head and basic healthcare … or
3) going bankrupt [which simply means starting over], forced to move in with your parents or relatives, or perhaps forced to scale down your lifestyle and work an extra three years to retirement?
If you live in the United States or other parts of the Western World, the worst that can happen is something like Option 3. That (bankruptcy) happened to my neighbors about 8 years ago. They moved in with relatives in Utah initially, continued eating, always had a roof over their heads (which is theirs, now, not their relatives), have healthcare, lots of friends, and all of their kids started and have since graduated from college since then. Do you think you can survive such a horror floor?
Good, because it’s incredibly unlikely to happen to you. After you draw this horror floor, put together a fallback plan in case something somewhat crappy but not cataclysmic happens to you financially. What will you do? How can you cut spending? What resources can you draw upon? Can you tap your parents? Your IRA? Start an EBAY business on the side? Move to a cheaper home? Retrain to become a radiation technologist instead of an investment banker? Big needs out there for allied healthcare specialists right now. They’re going to be needing people to build bridges and roads and more schoolteachers under Obama’s new plans, which will create opportunities for someone (could that be you?). Find new customers, a new job, or a new state in which to live. Or, better yet, plan on things being OK, and set yourself up so you could do this, should you need to.
Of course, make sure you do a superlative job at your current job while you’re doing all of this.
For myself, we’ve canceled a trip to Yellowstone for next year, even though we have free plane tickets. That saves us $2,000. A local vacation in a pop up trailer or a tent will be just as much fun. We decided to stretch our cars for two more years, even though both have 100,000 miles on them and they have seen better days. We’re spending peanuts on Christmas this year (and we’ll still have fun – anyone who doesn’t have fun during the Holidays this year will be severely punished by Dr. Sarno). I’ll go cross country skiing and ice skating instead of the little downhill skiing that I did last year, saving $300 in tickets. I’m doing everything I can to find clients who are in recession-proof industries, such as green technology, healthcare, defense and aerospace, and medical devices.
Your plan will be different than mine, and I don’t know what your plan will be, but think about saving, plus figuring out how you can pull together some extra money to make it through this if you need to. You will survive, this nation will survive, and the Western World will not collapse financially (I’m assuming you don’t live in India or China or Nigeria, where they would kill to live like we will live during the worst recession we could imagine).
Remember – the unemployment rate is 6.8%, which means that 93.2% of people are working. During the worst recession since the Great Depression, which was in the early 1980’s, unemployment peaked at 10.8%. Almost 90% of the people worked right through it. We made it through that, and most of you (including me) are too young to have even felt it. We survived the 1987 stock market crash, and the (far more scary) 9/11/2001 attacks.
***
After you’ve done all of this crap and thought through all of this like the worrying perfectionists that all of us on this board are, hide what you wrote, forget it all, and stop reading the daily news, which will just get you upset. Then call a friend, watch a silly Marx Brothers movie, play ping pong, bridge, or go pitch horseshoes. Let Obama worry about the economy, and have some fun.
***
How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened.
- Thomas Jefferson
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience.
- Diane Arbus
|
|
|
|
johnaccardi
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 10:27:47
|
| I wish I could worry about stuff like this. Too much on my own plate i guess. |
|
|
|
Erata
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 14:45:00
|
I’m really glad that njoy posted this topic and gave voice to this anxiety and I’m thankful for the advice others have offered. I’ve also been a news addict and even set my alarm each morning so that I can listen to the headlines—no wonder I wake up anxious! So, I’m trying to take my own advice and wean myself off the news. So far, I’ve only heard the headlines three times today (rather than hourly) and it’s almost 5 pm.
I know that this isn’t a political forum, but since the topic has been opened for discussion, I fear that we will be faced with a future that most of us haven’t encountered in our lifetime because a once strong middle class is at risk; we may experience how most of the world lives. Up to now, we’ve been very fortunate.
But, while I agree with much of what was written by
Northerner and hope that everything will turn out ok, I also
disagree with some of the statements and need to voice my
disagreements. I know that my long indoctrination
of being a ‘nice girl’ and burying my opinions has greatly
contributed to a lifetime of TMS pain (it’s a relief to be
able to say that and assume readers will know what I
mean!)
I don’t think that the government is ‘goofy’ or that it’s doing the right things to pre-empt an economic cataclysm. Enacting unprecedented bailouts could be cataclysmic in themselves by creating billions of dollars out of thin air and pumping those dollars, with little or no oversight, into failing banks and industries. And, whether or not we experience a short or protracted recession or depression, these actions look more like a sleight-of-hand resulting in the largest re-distribution of wealth in history.
I realize that you weren’t advocating bankruptcy (which is really more complicated than just starting over and carries long term repercussions), and please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t laws enacted by Congress in 2006 also make it much more difficult to declare Chapter 7 or 11?
Also, I think that unemployment rate statistics are a bit more complicated than just subtracting the current rate from 100% and applying that figure as the percentage of people still working. The figure is derived from the number of people actively seeking employment and doesn’t reflect, among other factors, those who have given up or those whose jobs have been reduced to part time.
Finally, I’m just not sure that Obama worrying about the economy is comforting because what experience does he really have, especially in a crisis supposedly of this magnitude?
That said, yes, hopefully things will upturn with no depression. I think good short-term advice I’d also like to follow is watching the Marx Brothers!
|
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 20:17:09
|
LOL, thanks for the deluge of ideas, people. Actually, I have lived with contingency plans such as these all my life. They have served me well through times of sickness, unemployment, etc. but, with all due respect, I don't think they will meet the challenges ahead of us.
I started "watching the end of the world on television" (I think this is funny but, okay, most people don't) when I realized how utterly out of touch those around me are with what is going on. I wanted to understand why almost nobody speaks out and those who do are marginalized. What better way than to watch television aimed straight at the masses? Here's what I've learned:
Most of us choose to believe anyone who will assure us that nothing really bad can possibly happen to us. Why? Because we are right and those other guys are wrong. Or we are clever and they are stupid. Or we work hard and they are lazy. Or our government is good and their government is evil. Or God loves us and not them. In short, we're special and they are not. I think this is the essential nonsense of our time. Almost everybody, everywhere, believes it. People who don't may exist but they do not speak up.
Meanwhile, our world is falling apart. Who will save us if life ISN'T a super hero movie? We will have to save ourselves and, frankly, I don't think we are up to it. Have any of you read The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell? I think his theory applies to civilizations, too, and ours has tipped. Bailouts aren't going to save us.
I'm sure your advice that I give up watching the news is well meant but I saw the wave coming and, instead pretending it wasn't, decided to surf it. My "scared to death" is mostly excitement. For myself, it doesn't matter much what happens next but I do want to know how to cope. Hence my initial question which was:
How do we cope with disaster when denial runs out?
What happens when cutting back on Christmas presents or living on a bus route, etc. are not enough to keep YOU and your family safe, fed, alive? Unlikely, you say, but I say WHAT IF, what are you going to do next?
Since we are all going to die, someday, it doesn't really matter if I'm wrong. Things end. Might as well get on with figuring out how to cope with endings.
|
|
|
|
johnaccardi
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 21:01:53
|
If you look through history, "the end of the world" was always in the near future. It's always a fear that doesn't seem to actually happen...the human race gets through tough times.
I don't know much about our current situation, as I'm not very interested by politics and current events portrayed by the media, but if I had to guess...everything is going to be ok. |
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 21:39:38
|
| The end of the world tends to be underreported because very few people make notes while it is going on. In fact, the world has probably ended more than a few times but data is lacking. This may be the case when there is a lot of talk about the world ending, then a period of a couple of centuries that nobody writes about. If the world ever really ends (I'm thinking crispy black ball) we can forgive historians if they don't write much about it. I am referring to "the end of the world as we know it" which is quite enough for me. |
Edited by - njoy on 12/09/2008 21:40:16 |
|
|
|
hottm8oh
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 08:24:54
|
I stopped watching the news about 2 weeks ago. I am having health issues (digestive) and I have bigger fish to fry than whether or not some sh*t-for-brains CEO flew or drove to Washington D.C. to ask for money.
I have a job right now and my husband and I are paying our bills on time and socking money away for a rainy day. Hopefully we will both get through the next year employed, but if we don't, life goes on. I'll find other work. It may not be the best work or the best salary, but I believe I could find other work. But that's not even a priority for me right now. My first priority is getting my digestive issues under control so I can function at 100% again. |
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 22:16:38
|
I'm already diversified, Alexis, but long term survival is not my goal so more canned goods is not my answer. I wonder if most of us TMSers tend to focus so much on our material well being that we lose patience with figuring out what is really happening? This seems likely because instead of facing emotions like fear and anger, we somatize. Perhaps to us pain is preferable to the uncertainties of an inner journey.
I think that was true of me, until recently. I was intensely practical because I thought "spiritual growth" could wait until the (major) troubles in the world had been addressed, if not resolved. But of course this has proved largely futile. Now, I have pretty much decided that without a sweeping change in hearts and minds, the physical world will just continue to get worse. So, I have decided to start with me.
Can anyone reading this relate at all to what I am saying? Is denial or somatizing all we have? Doesn't journalling sometimes lead to musing about the meaning of it all? Maybe I should try posting on a meditation forum but I really have trouble relating to those folks. |
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 22:25:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by hottm8oh
I have bigger fish to fry than whether or not some sh*t-for-brains CEO flew or drove to Washington D.C. to ask for money.
Totally agree with this. It is only interesting if it fits into the larger puzzle. |
|
|
|
phyllis
United Kingdom
46 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 08:33:04
|
Hey you crowd out there. It has been proved by psychologists that a huge percentage of what we worry about is stuff that never happens!
Give yourselves a break!
I was orphanage raised, foul foster home, no money etc. etc. so these times to me are not new. Years ago when I was really broke, I used to have £1 to last me the week by a Monday morning. I SURVIVED and am here to tell the tale. I used to walk round big shops after work to keep warm because I had no heat at home and walk round the food halls in the shops hoping for free samples!
Eventually things got better and I gradually had a little more diposable income. From the age of 18 I WAS ALONE, responsible for rent in Birmingham, food (what I could afford), and bus fares. I owned one skirt and a couple of jumpers. I washed undies through, rolled them ina towel and hoped they would dry by the next morning. I never even had a winter coat, just an anorak I bought in a market. Boots? What were they? This was in the recession of the 1970s.
I couldn't afford to put the electric cooker on, so I used to open a tin of rice pudding and eat it cold. I had no folks to go home to on a Sunday to have a good feed, so I used to sometimes stay in bed in the winter!
I bet if 99% of you opened your wardrobes in the next five minutes and your food cupboards you would find plenty.
Everyone is going to learn to cut back. I really don't want to sound patronising - it is just that I have been through it.
A lot of the younger generation have never experienced privation, so they are going to find this recession tough. However, believe me, we will come out the other side, more self reliant and resourceful and realsing that a lot of the tat in the shops was not worth buying anyway.
What you have to do is imagine the worst that can possibly happen, mentally draw up a plan as to what you will do and then try and push it to one side a bit.
Just been to Tesco to get some milk and I can honestly say I have never seen such a load of horrible junk in my life! If people are spending hard earned money on this, they need help!
What keeps me going now is the thought that 'There is nothing new under the sun'. This has all happened before, and will happen again.
May your respective Gods be with you - be strong, positive and 'Don't Sweat the Small Stuff'!!!
My beloved dog is by me at the moment, lying on his back with paws in the air. Take a tip from him but don't roll over in the street - might raise a few eyebrows! |
|
|
|
phyllis
United Kingdom
46 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 08:49:36
|
Just been thinking again.
Do you know, reading the post about holidays made me think about a couple of trips we had when I was about 20 and 21. Have you all seen a Fiat 500? The size of a peanut!!
Well, my husband and I (we were single then) loaded up the Fiat 500 with a tent that was literally like a sausage skin - se could just slide into it. We also took a tiny camping stove and lots of foods like tinned beans, instant mashed potato, tinned fruit etc. and we drove from England to Switzerland. We had a budget which was about £3 a day (1972 this was) plus camp site fees.
WE HAD AN AMAZING HOLIDAY which we still talk about to this day. OLne mountain was so steep I got out of the car, walked up and my (then) boyfriend reversed the car up the really steep 200 yards or so. I was laughing hysterically as this poor little car struggled up the hill. We touched the tip of Italy and some Italian lads stopped us and embraced us as we had driven an Italian car from England. They were jumping around and laughing.
One morning we woke up after a torrential night of rain and we could see daylight. The tent has split as it was old and rotten. Lord knows who gave us the tent - I can't remember.
For the whole of that holiday we never afforded one meal in a restaurant or a cup of coffee in a cafe. We made every drink we had!
I have never forgotten the tinkle of the cow bells in the Swiss mountains and the window gazing at the designer stuff in the Swiss shops!
I think a challenge is so good for us.
When I heard that the bosses of GM or whoever flew to Washington DC in their private jets, I just decided that they do not have a brain between them and forgot them.
I do get sad about my lack of family. I have not one relative. However, it has given me a great sense of humour. When I get my back niggling again, I push it away.
Happy Days!
|
|
|
|
Erata
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 10:29:08
|
On this dark, cold & rainy day, I’m finding this thread with so many different views very stimulating and interesting.
Phyllis, your posting is an incredible testimony to perseverance, your own strength, the human condition and to the consumption mindset, at least here in the States.
I live on a once working farm, which could bring with it, with help, much self-sufficiency, so I’m very lucky in some ways, but I’m also very isolated. (I also love the image of Phyllis’s beloved dog by her side! An emaciated, neglected little dog showed up at my daughter’s doorstep the other night. My daughter works with animals and also for a vet; when the dog’s health is restored, she’s coming to live with me and my other beloved dog.)
Throughout my life I’ve been mostly entrenched in the middle class and always ‘expected’ to be able to buy beyond my needs. After my husband walked out a few years ago, I couldn’t imagine how I’d support myself—I always worked part time, but he was the breadwinner. It amazes me how little I now spend, how little I ‘need’ and I realize that for the better part of my marriage, I had spent money and bought material possessions we didn’t need to make up for unhappiness and loneliness. I think that the life-style most Americans (including myself) have enjoyed over the last 60 years has been excessive, and even obscenely lavish, as compared to most people living on this planet we all share.
At the same time, as a side study to research I’ve done over the years, (related to an extremely traumatic and unresolved event in my life from which evolved many of my symptoms with Fibromyalgia), I don’t think this financial crisis has evolved organically; the inevitability of an economic catastrophe has been in the mail for years and delivered in small doses until now.
(One comparison to a possible depression I haven’t heard mention of, when people relate both how bad it will be on the one side and how people will rally and come through, on the other, is that the current population in the U.S.(alone) is three times what it was in the 30’s. How would this impact this present crisis, as it didn’t with the previous?)
Njoy, you wrote questioning if journaling (and I think also meditation) leads to musing on the meaning of it all.
I've wondered too, and for me, I have to wonder, were we really born into this world to be in pain, enslaved by debt, addicted to substances and/or behaviors, struggling with interpersonal relationships, alienated from nature, etc, and if not, why do we accept this?
I know, for me, my journaling and meditation can also benefit from looking at how I tend to be much, much harder on myself than on others. Why should this be? I live with myself and ultimately I’m all I’ve got and I’ll also be exiting with myself. Maybe these questions are conversations to be had with my brain in recovering from TMS.
|
|
|
|
phyllis
United Kingdom
46 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 05:51:25
|
Hello everyone. I am glad I have stimulated a lot of interest in my post. Rupert (my dog) says 'Hi' and keep smiling.
Appropos income and spending. Our pensioners are now starting to moan about interest falling on savings. OK I agree if you have small savings this will hurt. However, the example in the paper said this old couple spend £3,500 a month which they obtain from a pension and interest. Now, what does a couple (who look about 70) need that costs £3,500 a month? They said they will not be able to spend freely any more. I was shocked to say the least to see they had been spending up to £800 a week!!!! aaaaaargh!
All I want is for people not to have so much angst in their lives. I can't remember who said it but he said 'The only thing we fear is fear itself'.
When I was a tiny girl deep in the English countryside I used to stare out of my window and look at the moon and stars. I used to think that as long as they were there every night everything would be OK. We had an amazing full moon last night and it hung there like something so magical my eyes filled up.
I think some of you should try not to be so introspective. LOOK OUTWARDS.
best wishes |
|
|
|
bribeavis
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2008 : 19:58:57
|
| Question. Is your mind using the economy as a distraction? Remember the symptom imperative. Your mind might have found a clever substitute distraction for the TMS ailments/distractions you conquered. I've noticed my mind using the financial crisis as an effective distraction. Just like the back pain was chosen by my subconscious in the past to distract from things I didn't want to think about. |
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2008 : 20:48:26
|
You could be right, bribeavis. I don't think so but I'll watch for the signs. I think I am trying to get my head on straight so I will be better able to help myself, my family and others cope with what is coming.
As I write this, I am watching Sixty Minutes where an expert just finished talking about the COMING mortgage meltdown we haven't even started to feel yet. Quite a lot bigger than subprime: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
He says: ""things are going to be much worse than anybody anticipates."
Sorry but I don't think it is sensible to turn off the television and pretend this isn't happening. |
Edited by - njoy on 12/14/2008 20:52:35 |
|
|
|
njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2008 : 21:34:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erata
...I have to wonder, were we really born into this world to be in pain, enslaved by debt, addicted to substances and/or behaviors, struggling with interpersonal relationships, alienated from nature, etc, and if not, why do we accept this?
People (me, too) often remind me of hairless baboons. I can't believe the stuff we do to each other. Baboons don't know any better, though, so they don't worry or regret. We do worry and we do regret which is useful to the extent it causes us to change.
I think when things get bad enough more people may think twice about accepting the world the way it is and start looking for a better way to live. Many are already open to change but most are not. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Fear of Recession
