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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:40:24
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I had great success curing my back pain some years ago--with the help of Dr. Sarno's books. Since then I have applied the principles to various pains that occurred (often following injuries that didn't heal in a reasonable amount of time). Tennis elbow has been the most stubborn. I (try to) accept that it is TMS-related; I have even advised others on this forum about elbow pain. Sometimes the pain has gone away and I have been pain free for a period of time. But now it has returned and the pain has increased.
I should explain that I lift weights, and exercise is very important to me (perhaps too important?). In spite of my age (I just turned 68), I have had success keeping my body presentable (yes, I am aware of my age consciousness), and working out makes me feel good. But two days ago, working on my arms and exercising despite the considerable elbow pain, things got really bad after the workout ended. My left arm caused pain whenever I lifted anything, and it tingled from wrist to shoulder. I have rested it for two days now, and it is somewhat better. But having it feel better is an argument against thinking it is TMS--it gets better when I don't exercise. I am really at a loss as to what to do but am not willing to lay off the exercise. I have been rereading The Divided Mind and Dr. Sopher's book as well. It is just so difficult to believe it is TMS--it seems obvious that doing arm curls with (for me) fairly heavy weights can lead to elbow pain.
I thought I knew a lot about TMS, but this experience has been humbling. I can't tell pain caused by physical overuse from TMS.
Any ideas would be appreciated. |
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cfhunter
119 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 14:10:31
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I could have wrote this post with a few changes here and there(I am a 38 year old female)....I too have had tennis elbow for MONTHS. Let me just say this. I have NEVER in my life played tennis, nor did I spend too much time on the Wii playing tennis at Christmas! There is NO reason I should have this. I have been lifting weights (I curl 20 pounds with no problem) for years and years....I do NOT think that is the reason this is happening to me. I went on vacation for 5 days and the pain was MINIMAL if not gone...walked in my house... and it was back again within hours.
So as bad as it hurts and as much as I wake at night b/c of it I am NOT going for shots or PT...I will just wait this out like I did the foot pain, back pain and piriformus pain.
It is a REAL stinker though...I have almost dropped weights nad dishes b/c of it! I just can't put my finger on what it is that is causing this one to flare so badly. so the long short of it is...you are not alone. I came to the forum to see if ANYone else had this going on right now to commiserate with me and yours was the very first post that popped up...if that isn't a sign I don't know what is.
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2009 : 15:21:10
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quote:
I have rested it for two days now, and it is somewhat better. But having it feel better is an argument against thinking it is TMS--it gets better when I don't exercise.
My "RSI" (pains in the hands, arms and wrists) got better when I didn't use the computer. So obviously over-use of the computer was the cause... except that I cured it using the TMS approach. Edit: The fact that I cured it using the TMS approach indicates that over-use of the computer wasn't the real cause.
Think "trigger", "Pavlovian conditioning" (re-read that bit in "The Mindbody Prescription").
I know it may sound like an obvious question, but I'll ask it anyway. Is anything else going on which could cause this?
Hilary N |
Edited by - HilaryN on 02/08/2009 03:30:58 |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 09:29:47
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To cfhunter:
You definitely have my commiseration. Thankfully, my tennis elbow has never been so bad that I dropped things (though, knowing how TMS works, that image will lodge in my brain--and I'll probably be writing tomorrow that I began dropping things). I'm going back to the weights today, maybe at lower poundages. Yesterday I located an anecdote on Dr. Sopher's website about a patient of his who wrote about his tennis elbow problem in much the same way that I did. Dr. Sopher assured him that even though the new pain seemed to be related closely to something physical, it was almost certainly a continuing manifestation of TMS. What else can we do but keep trying?
To HilaryN:
When you say "So obviously over-use of the computer was the cause... " isn't that contrary to the TMS theory? I would think that Dr. Sarno would say that computer use did not cause the pain, but that the brain did, knowing that you would link the pain to the computer. I may be wrong about that.
Thanks for the hint about Pavlovian conditioning; I'll reread that section.
As for anything going on in my life: I guess there is always something going on that the brain can use. Without getting too boringly personal, my recent birthday could have been a trigger: I hate the thought of getting old--and of looking old; when young people on the streetcar offer me a seat, I am impressed that they do so, but don't respond well inwardly--and I never accept the seat. The concern with age is, I am sure, directly related to exercising. I have read enough comments on this forum from people with exercise issues to think that, for such individuals, the brain knows that exercise is so essential to their mental well-being that it is a perfect place to strike with TMS.
Thanks for the input,
Jim |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 03:26:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim D.
When you say "So obviously over-use of the computer was the cause... " isn't that contrary to the TMS theory? I would think that Dr. Sarno would say that computer use did not cause the pain, but that the brain did, knowing that you would link the pain to the computer.
Exactly – hence my reminder about Pavlovian conditioning. When I wrote that over-use of the computer was the cause I was being ironic, and trying to draw a parallel between my experience and yours, because you seemed to think that the pain was caused by exercise.
Before I knew about Sarno I thought over-use of the computer caused my RSI because there seemed to be such a clear link. Many people I know who have pain find it difficult to accept their pain could be caused by repressed emotions because the pain gets worse when they carry out a certain activity.
This doesn't just apply to pain, either. It also applies to allergies, and skin conditions such as eczema, which get worse when one eats certain foods.
In all these cases there is an apparent physical cause, yet if one challenges it and looks deeper, the real cause is repressed emotions.
I've proved that in my own case by getting rid of my RSI, my eczema (apparently caused by certain foods) – even foot pain which seems to be caused by certain shoes!
Anyway, it's good you've read of similar cases and that you're keeping on with the activity. Doing it at a lower level is a good tactic because it will enable you to overcome the fear more easily.
Bon courage!
Hilary N |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:07:14
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quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN
Exactly – hence my reminder about Pavlovian conditioning. When I wrote that over-use of the computer was the cause I was being ironic, and trying to draw a parallel between my experience and yours, because you seemed to think that the pain was caused by exercise.
Sorry I missed the irony.
I worked out both Saturday and Sunday, with considerable improvement. Conditioning is powerful, as you say.
Jim
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 11:27:59
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Tennis elbow is not stubborn or hard to get rid of.
I do NOT have tennis elbow!
My elbows are strong and healthy.
I can perform any physical task with my elbows, no matter how strenuous, irritating, or awkward.
I am not intimidated by fear, discomfort, or pain, because I know exactly what to do when it occurs. Any pain is TMS and nothing else.
I believe this with all my heart! I know this deep within my soul.
I don't mean to come off as some hard-core smart ass.  But this is what I had to come to believe to get better.
I should give you a little history. I went through two very frustrating years of tennis elbow pain. I had it in both elbows, with my right elbow being much worse. Over a period of time I got to the point where I couldn't type, mouse, vacuum, drive my wife's stick shift, play my guitar (MAJOR bummer), mow the grass (not such a bummer), etc., etc.
Early on, I received MRIs that showed small tears in the tendons of both elbows, again with the right one being worse. That diagnosis planted enough of a doubt to convince me that the pain may not be TMS. Around the same time, two physical therapists told me that tennis elbow was very hard to get rid of and frustrating to treat. This helped to keep my head in the physical pain and convince me that I had a structural problem, as well. It's amazing what the power of suggestion can do.
Finally, I had surgery on my right elbow back in August. The doctor said the surgery went well and I believed it was going to help me. But the pain didn't get better. In fact, it seemed to get slowly worse. Each day I would find something new that would cause pain and I was forced to scale back on more and more activities (classic TMS).
Okay, here's when things changed. The doctor was getting really frustrated with me. He said, "we fixed the problem in your elbow". I was getting really fed up too and began thinking about what he said… and I started thinking about Dr. Sarno. (I had a debilitating chronic back problem for 20 years that is now 100% cured, thanks to Dr. Sarno). In recent months I had drifted away, just a little bit and decided it was time to start getting serious again. I pulled out the books and tapes once more. One thing that really struck a chord with me was a couple of posts from Webdan95. Here's a link to one of them:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5176
All of this led me to the beliefs that you see at the top of this post. Now my elbows are pretty much pain free and I can do all the things I was afraid to do - type, mouse, play my guitar (yea!), vacuum (boo!), and anything else I want to do without pain. This includes lifting very heavy weights, so heavy that I can barely left them and I have no pain. I'm also off all painkillers now, which is a first for me.
I had to completely stop equivocating and thinking that ‘maybe’ part of my elbow pain was TMS and ‘just maybe’ part of it was due to something else. It is 100%T MS. No more doubts. |
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Brian
9 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:43:44
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| It is good to hear some good news with using the TMS approach with tennis elbow. I have had tennis elbow for 4 years. The only relief has been through cortisone injections. I had severe TMS in my back and knee and had no problem getting rid of the pain. But tennis elbow is much more difficult. |
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marsha
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 17:14:33
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When you rid yourself of pain it means that you have convinced your subconscious mind that it doesn’t need to use pain as a diversion. If the pain pops up somewhere else it means you haven’t totally convinced that part of your brain that it can stop the TMS symptoms. You aren’t trying to rid yourself of a bad back, tennis elbow, sciatica etc, you are attempting to train your brain not divert your thinking away from the emotional to the physical. (TMS)Well of course you don’t want any pain but the object is to change the way your brain works.
I have been at this for ages. Didn’t learn about TMs until I was 54 but suffered with chronic pain since I was 16. Saw Dr. Sarno in 1999 and was pain free. Really free for about 7 years.
Two years ago a dear friend died and my daughter moved across the country for a job. Pain returned at first very subtle and then with a vengeance. So I am back at it again.
With the help of these posts and another visit to Dr. Sarno I am on the road to recovery. I try not to focus on where the pain is (mine moves around). I was on the treadmill today for one hour. That is a big deal for me . My back and legs started to ache after ˝ hour but a friend joined me on the adjacent treadmill, we got envolved in a conversation and before I knew it one hour had passed and my pain was gone. Actually , I had a pain free day.
By the way , in the mail a few weeks ago I received my Medicare Card. That could do it, don’t you think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay positive.
marsha
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 16:05:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Spanky
Tennis elbow is not stubborn or hard to get rid of.
At first, I found your opening comment quite off-putting--because in fact I have found the opposite to be true. But as I read on, I realized that is what you have said to yourself. I really appreciate your message; it has given me some strength to combat the current TMS issues.
quote:
The doctor was getting really frustrated with me. He said, "we fixed the problem in your elbow".
I had a similar occurrence when I was going to physical therapy for my back pain. I had dutifully performed all the prescribed exercises (this was before I had discovered Sarno). I had gone through the ultrasound treatments (as I look back, I think, what a joke). But when I reported to the PT that my back still hurt, she got very angry with me and hinted that I was not doing my part to get better. Of course, like a true TMS person, I didn't fight back but meekly left her office; only when I got back to my office did I call and cancel the remaining appointments! It was a short time later that I accidentally discovered Dr. Sarno's books while browsing in a Barnes & Noble.
Thanks again for your insights. I will reread them.
Jim |
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cfhunter
119 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2009 : 19:15:26
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I am going to cut my arm off at the elbow.
just kidding...but damnit this is just so frustrating!
It hurts so bad my thumb is now involved in the game of "What can we do to mess up her physical loife??!"
ugh.
just about dropped a weight on my face doing tricep skull crushers tonight...mad mad mad.
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2009 : 18:26:03
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I'm very sorry to hear about your continuing pain. I was thinking of writing about my progress, but was afraid I might jinx myself, and I don't want to seem unfeeling to others. BUT my pain has diminished in the last two days. I worked out this morning, lifting fairly heavy weights, and felt just a little elbow pain, which went away later in the day. I have been through this before and am hoping the situation is really improving. It has certainly improved my frame of mind. Tomorrow is "arm day," the exercises that affect the elbow directly. We'll see how it goes.
So there are two things I can recommend: First, don't give up, keep doing whatever seems to cause the pain, as much as you can. The pain can be bad, but as long as you can stand it, it's good to keep telling the brain, "see, I am still exercising." Second, be patient. I have gone for weeks with elbow pain. I have read some of the posts in this thread several times, and I have been reading parts of The Divided Mind each night before sleeping. Sarno refers to elbow pain in one great paragraph in that book, and I have read that over and over. There wasn't any progress for day after day, but fairly suddenly the pain diminished. So believing and being patient are crucial.
Best wishes,
Jim |
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 12:56:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim D.
So there are two things I can recommend: First, don't give up, keep doing whatever seems to cause the pain, as much as you can. The pain can be bad, but as long as you can stand it, it's good to keep telling the brain, "see, I am still exercising." Second, be patient. I have gone for weeks with elbow pain. I have read some of the posts in this thread several times, and I have been reading parts of The Divided Mind each night before sleeping. Sarno refers to elbow pain in one great paragraph in that book, and I have read that over and over. There wasn't any progress for day after day, but fairly suddenly the pain diminished. So believing and being patient are crucial.
Jim, I think you have given brilliant advice! Tennis elbow really is a tough one. Reject the structural diagnosis. Resume physical activity. Believe, believe, believe there is nothing wrong with your elbow. At the end of Dr. Sarno's video he gives a little pep talk where he talks about how important it is to keep trying and not giving up. It's one of my favorite parts of the whole video.
Also Jim, I'm glad you took my other post in the spirit that it was intended. I was really talking to myself and not talking at you. This probably wasn't evident at first. I apologize for the gruff tone.
I'm also delighted to hear you're doing better! It sounds like you're exactly on track to me. For a long time I didn't know if it was possible to rid myself of tennis elbow (that sort of thinking was actually the problem). I can't tell you how wonderful it is to be pain-free and I don't see why it shouldn't happen to you and the others who have posted here. |
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Brian
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 10:41:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Spanky
Tennis elbow is not stubborn or hard to get rid of.
I do NOT have tennis elbow!
My elbows are strong and healthy.
I can perform any physical task with my elbows, no matter how strenuous, irritating, or awkward.
I am not intimidated by fear, discomfort, or pain, because I know exactly what to do when it occurs. Any pain is TMS and nothing else.
I believe this with all my heart! I know this deep within my soul.
I don't mean to come off as some hard-core smart ass. But this is what I had to come to believe to get better.
I should give you a little history. I went through two very frustrating years of tennis elbow pain. I had it in both elbows, with my right elbow being much worse. Over a period of time I got to the point where I couldn't type, mouse, vacuum, drive my wife's stick shift, play my guitar (MAJOR bummer), mow the grass (not such a bummer), etc., etc.
Early on, I received MRIs that showed small tears in the tendons of both elbows, again with the right one being worse. That diagnosis planted enough of a doubt to convince me that the pain may not be TMS. Around the same time, two physical therapists told me that tennis elbow was very hard to get rid of and frustrating to treat. This helped to keep my head in the physical pain and convince me that I had a structural problem, as well. It's amazing what the power of suggestion can do.
Finally, I had surgery on my right elbow back in August. The doctor said the surgery went well and I believed it was going to help me. But the pain didn't get better. In fact, it seemed to get slowly worse. Each day I would find something new that would cause pain and I was forced to scale back on more and more activities (classic TMS).
Okay, here's when things changed. The doctor was getting really frustrated with me. He said, "we fixed the problem in your elbow". I was getting really fed up too and began thinking about what he said… and I started thinking about Dr. Sarno. (I had a debilitating chronic back problem for 20 years that is now 100% cured, thanks to Dr. Sarno). In recent months I had drifted away, just a little bit and decided it was time to start getting serious again. I pulled out the books and tapes once more. One thing that really struck a chord with me was a couple of posts from Webdan95. Here's a link to one of them:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5176
All of this led me to the beliefs that you see at the top of this post. Now my elbows are pretty much pain free and I can do all the things I was afraid to do - type, mouse, play my guitar (yea!), vacuum (boo!), and anything else I want to do without pain. This includes lifting very heavy weights, so heavy that I can barely left them and I have no pain. I'm also off all painkillers now, which is a first for me.
I had to completely stop equivocating and thinking that ‘maybe’ part of my elbow pain was TMS and ‘just maybe’ part of it was due to something else. It is 100%T MS. No more doubts.
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Brian
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 10:43:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Spanky
Tennis elbow is not stubborn or hard to get rid of.
How has your elbow been. I had cortisone shots and surgery which helped but it is coming back. My surgeon did say there was a lot of inflammation but it should be healed.
I do NOT have tennis elbow!
My elbows are strong and healthy.
I can perform any physical task with my elbows, no matter how strenuous, irritating, or awkward.
I am not intimidated by fear, discomfort, or pain, because I know exactly what to do when it occurs. Any pain is TMS and nothing else.
I believe this with all my heart! I know this deep within my soul.
I don't mean to come off as some hard-core smart ass. But this is what I had to come to believe to get better.
I should give you a little history. I went through two very frustrating years of tennis elbow pain. I had it in both elbows, with my right elbow being much worse. Over a period of time I got to the point where I couldn't type, mouse, vacuum, drive my wife's stick shift, play my guitar (MAJOR bummer), mow the grass (not such a bummer), etc., etc.
Early on, I received MRIs that showed small tears in the tendons of both elbows, again with the right one being worse. That diagnosis planted enough of a doubt to convince me that the pain may not be TMS. Around the same time, two physical therapists told me that tennis elbow was very hard to get rid of and frustrating to treat. This helped to keep my head in the physical pain and convince me that I had a structural problem, as well. It's amazing what the power of suggestion can do.
Finally, I had surgery on my right elbow back in August. The doctor said the surgery went well and I believed it was going to help me. But the pain didn't get better. In fact, it seemed to get slowly worse. Each day I would find something new that would cause pain and I was forced to scale back on more and more activities (classic TMS).
Okay, here's when things changed. The doctor was getting really frustrated with me. He said, "we fixed the problem in your elbow". I was getting really fed up too and began thinking about what he said… and I started thinking about Dr. Sarno. (I had a debilitating chronic back problem for 20 years that is now 100% cured, thanks to Dr. Sarno). In recent months I had drifted away, just a little bit and decided it was time to start getting serious again. I pulled out the books and tapes once more. One thing that really struck a chord with me was a couple of posts from Webdan95. Here's a link to one of them:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5176
All of this led me to the beliefs that you see at the top of this post. Now my elbows are pretty much pain free and I can do all the things I was afraid to do - type, mouse, play my guitar (yea!), vacuum (boo!), and anything else I want to do without pain. This includes lifting very heavy weights, so heavy that I can barely left them and I have no pain. I'm also off all painkillers now, which is a first for me.
I had to completely stop equivocating and thinking that ‘maybe’ part of my elbow pain was TMS and ‘just maybe’ part of it was due to something else. It is 100%T MS. No more doubts.
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Brian
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 11:32:21
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How has your elbow been. I had sugery almost 2 years ago for tennis elbow and it totally never went away. The doctor did say I had a lot of inflammation which puts doubt in mind mind about TMS.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Spanky
quote:
Originally posted by Jim D.
So there are two things I can recommend: First, don't give up, keep doing whatever seems to cause the pain, as much as you can. The pain can be bad, but as long as you can stand it, it's good to keep telling the brain, "see, I am still exercising." Second, be patient. I have gone for weeks with elbow pain. I have read some of the posts in this thread several times, and I have been reading parts of The Divided Mind each night before sleeping. Sarno refers to elbow pain in one great paragraph in that book, and I have read that over and over. There wasn't any progress for day after day, but fairly suddenly the pain diminished. So believing and being patient are crucial.
Jim, I think you have given brilliant advice! Tennis elbow really is a tough one. Reject the structural diagnosis. Resume physical activity. Believe, believe, believe there is nothing wrong with your elbow. At the end of Dr. Sarno's video he gives a little pep talk where he talks about how important it is to keep trying and not giving up. It's one of my favorite parts of the whole video.
Also Jim, I'm glad you took my other post in the spirit that it was intended. I was really talking to myself and not talking at you. This probably wasn't evident at first. I apologize for the gruff tone.
I'm also delighted to hear you're doing better! It sounds like you're exactly on track to me. For a long time I didn't know if it was possible to rid myself of tennis elbow (that sort of thinking was actually the problem). I can't tell you how wonderful it is to be pain-free and I don't see why it shouldn't happen to you and the others who have posted here.
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Elbow Pain--Again
