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moose1
162 Posts |
 Posted - 02/09/2005 : 07:21:09
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Hello All,
Has anyone seen a reduction or elimination specifically of their low back pain as a result of feeling/experssing their anger a la Facing The Fire? I ask because, once again, I am trying to rid my self of a chronic, 24/7 low back ache and my Sarno skills are just not working. They've worked for all my other TMS symptoms, but not this, and I have tried so hard that it's clear that it's just not enough, or not the answer, for this particular symptom.
What I haven't tried yet is actually feeling what I know is an immense amount of unexpressed anger, which I know is really hard for me to do. So I'm curious to know if other people have found this to be the key to ridding themselves of low back pain. I've been at this now for three years, and while my life is not restricted in anyway due to my LBP, I'm just sick to death of having it constantly. Waking up in pain and having it all day and night is, as you can imagine, a lousy way to go through life.
I apprecited any input.
Thanks,
Moose |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 07:35:42
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quote:
...and I have tried so hard that it's clear that it's just not enough, or not the answer, for this particular symptom.
This is not a good attitude. Some symptoms are harder to crack than others. You need to take a long-term view and keep up the work, and faith that eventually the back pain will be gone too.
quote:
...I'm curious to know if other people have found this to be the key to ridding themselves of low back pain.
Another mistake ... you can't equate specific symptoms with specific techniques. Symptoms are random. It seems to me you are still pretty focused on back pain as a symptom, and that might be the main reason it hasn't gotten better.
Nevertheless some people do have to recondition themselves to feel more emotions, if they have developed a propensity to automatically repress them. You may need psychotherapy to get full relief. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 08:23:06
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Dave,
Thanks for the feedback. There's no question that I am conditioned to get back pain and to have it most of the time, and I have tried psychotherapy in the past to explore issues and possible root causes for my anger, etc., but without much success. It's entirely possible that the therapist I saw was not the appropriate kind, however.
When you say that I'm "still pretty focused on back pain as a symptom," I totally agree, but I guess I'm not sure how else to view it. I know for a fact that it's just a manifestation of TMS, that it's totally harmless and I never, ever let it restrict me in anyway. But despite my viewing it as what it is...a TMS symptom, an attempted distraction from my anger/rage, etc, it persists.
This is how I arrived at this 'feeling anger' possibility. I am curious to know if I might have better luck reconditioning myself to feel anger than reconditioning myself to not feel back pain.
Thanks again,
Moose |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 08:49:17
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Moose, I see you have made some progress and still looking to fine tune your TMS approach.
From observation you are trying too hard to strategize and re modify your application.
quote:
I've tried thinking psychological, tried envisioning a rush of blood to the affected muscles, tried looking at my list, but my TMS is incredibly stubborn, so it's clear to me that I need a more effective strategy.
Also don’t forget what Dave mentions about trying to strategize TMS techniques and the use of physical thinking to do it. quote:
Another mistake ... you can't equate specific symptoms with specific techniques. Symptoms are random. It seems to me you are still pretty focused on back pain as a symptom, and that might be the main reason it hasn't gotten better.
Moose we have allot in common as far as TMS conditions and hope you see this as an effort to support your recovery.
A) The area of continual back pain 24/7 and also in the area of waking in pain for about 5 years.
B) Also in the area of repressed anger and what to do with it.
In the past I believe I shared with you in detail what approach I took and what has made the most dramatic effect on my back pain recovery. So there is not too much to add to what was already said.
However, I think you are on to something in what you posted here.
This was the big one that opened the door for me.
The next thing to do is Go with it. quote:
What I haven't tried yet is actually feeling what I know is an immense amount of unexpressed anger, which I know is really hard for me to do. So I'm curious to know if other people have found this to be the key to ridding themselves of low back pain. I've been at this now for three years,
Always Hope For Recovery
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 09:39:26
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quote:
When you say that I'm "still pretty focused on back pain as a symptom," I totally agree, but I guess I'm not sure how else to view it. I know for a fact that it's just a manifestation of TMS, that it's totally harmless and I never, ever let it restrict me in anyway. But despite my viewing it as what it is...a TMS symptom, an attempted distraction from my anger/rage, etc, it persists.
In my personal experience as well, lower back pain is stubborn. I still have some residual chronic pain that I have simply learned to ignore. When it does get to the point where I am aware of it, I simply treat it as a barometer of my emotional state. I say to myself, "my back is hurting more now ... something must be eating away at me inside." Then I take some time to think about what it might be. I think about what might have happened recently to trigger it. Maybe a conversation with a friend "struck a nerve" inside me and I was not aware of it at the time. Maybe I was not happy with a project at work, and deep down it made me feel inferior or incompetent.
Unfortuantely there is no way to know for sure what it was, if it can even be traced to a specific thing. The point is, by treating the back pain as a benign signal rather than an irritant, and asking yourself questions about your emotional state, you are reconditioning yourself. Over time the reconditioning will take hold and the back pain will diminish. Have faith, instead of looking for answers in other places. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 16:32:59
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Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. As always, I am very grateful for this board. Thanks, Dave, for taking the trouble to moderate and maintain it.
Moose |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 16:44:55
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Hi moose.
The one really cool thing about forums is that you get to know people exclusively through text....what they can or will tell about themselves,and text is to me the best way to get to know someone.
I've read most of the posts you've ever dropped,and I always get the feeling that you have an excellent grasp of the fundamentals.Most people who "get it" ,usually answer their own questions.I think you did just that right here.
Have you ever played Indian Poker? Everybody get's one card face down...on the count of three,you flip it face out up onto your forehead,so everybody at the table can see all the cards except their own....High card wins after all the bets(or folds)are in.
TMS (and other maladies of the unconscious) is a lot like Indian Poker...we may be puzzled,while someone who can look at us or into us might be able to guide us to our "card" so to speak.
The best people for telling us/guiding us to the card are clinical psychologists.Maybe you still have one last card.
I would imagine that your intuition that you aren't expressing the anger is probably right.Maybe some gestalt type of therapy would be appropriate.Have a good ol' fashion punk rock beating of the things in your life that bug you.....say swear words that are NOT ok.
Get a dozen baseballs and draw faces,put names on them and hit them off a tee...I recommend a Louisville Slugger C243...make sure and yell something really inappropriate right before you swing.This works with golf balls,but it's harder to see the face.
Or...go out in the wilderness and bring lots of Guns.Go to some garage sales and buy some really cheap furniture,or to the market and buy a pile of squash,gourds.
Unload several hundred rounds of ammo into a nice dinette set.See what a pumpkin looks like after a dozen hollow point rounds from an AK47 slam into it in rapid succesion...make sure your Bosses face is clearly Marks-a-lotted onto the face.
I did that during my recovery....I don't even own a gun,but I had my friend take me shooting about 3 or 4 times....My back ALWAYS was a little better each time we came home(and I became a pretty good shot)
My goodism has never manifested itself in appropriate manners...I musta' missed that lesson...quite the contrary,I've been rather confrontational my whole life,and certainly am known to "go off"...I have always considered it a liability,as most people don't want the truth(telling your boss he's an idiot,telling your wife she's pissing you off,telling a friend you are angry with them)
However,it was probably helpful during my recovery.....even if I didn't confront someone in person,I've had so much practice at having complete anger meltdowns,it was really easy to act it out in private.....some people have a hard time working themselves into a frenzy,they've been sooooo conditioned to be good,act polite,say the right thing...
I think somewhere inside all of us,we fear that if we cross a certain line,that we'll lose it for real,or won't be able to stop,or something like that....Impossible for a TMSer.....I'd hit my bosses face 30 or 40 times,and be the same 'ol perfectionist-oversensitive person on Monday morning....just felt a little lighter.
Because other than that,you've been through every other aspect of TMS pretty thoroughly.When I read your posts,I get the feeling you've been thorough......I think it's time to have some controlled meltdowns....there is lots of healing on the other side of the silliness.
If you want anymore suggestions,I've beaten and broken and punched and pummeled almost everything.....and don't have any back pain.
My son used to get very lippy with umpires in games he pitched in.I used to tell him to save it all up and go into his room after the game and "let it rip".....no swear words were banned...on his own,he added taking a bat with him and beating the S#it out of the pillow...
He's the sweetest most well adjusted kid you could imagine.
pIEce(s)
Baseball65 |
Edited by - Baseball65 on 02/09/2005 16:51:56 |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 18:41:10
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Baseball,
Great adivce as usual. After reading your response, I did think of something else. Often you hear or read someone talking about simply releasing your anger and grudges and forgiving everyone who has wronged you and dismess things that truly irritate you. In once sense, this is very logical since releasing this anger through forgiveness would be one avenue to getting rid of some of the anger, thus removing TMS's purpose and thus the pain.
I guess the other side of that coin is to do what you recommend... really focus on the people and things that cause you anger and vent the rage directly at them through the Facing the Fire technique, also shedding some of the rage and depriving TMS of it's purpose and the pain it causes in the process.
So is it a matter of what works for you? I'm pretty sure I'd get more out of beating the hell out of my mattress than forgiving everyone and everything. It probably comes down to personality.
Of course, I could try beating the hell out of someone (acting, of course), THEN forgive them. Hey, I like that. I'll beat the crap out of you for that thing you did to me way back when, then we'll talk about forgiveness. Think I'll try that!
Thanks again.
Moose |
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Mobius
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 22:18:33
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| I'm not familiar with this Facing the Fire technique but if it means expressing the anger you feel then I wonder if it is of much use. Sarno says that the anger that you are aware of in a conscious way is not what is causing your pain. It's anger and rage in in unconscious that is the culprit. Many things sneak under the radar of the conscious mind and fester in the unconscious. Sarno feels that the key to resolving TMS is to change the way that the unconscious mind reacts to emotions. Pay close attention to your dreams as they are often very important to your recovery as they are the tools of the unconscious mind and represent its means of communicating with you. Often, in my experience, it will reveal to you some of the things that are bothering it. Just some thoughts. Take care and good luck. Mobius |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 23:03:14
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Hi Moose,
You sound like me 10 years ago. I was obsessed with the LBP pain, angry that I was "broken", I was fighting the pain 24/7, and it was reciprocating back 24/7. A deadly embrace.
Dave is correct in that you can't expect a certain TMS strategy to thwart a certain TMS manifestation in all cases. You may have to employ many or all of the strategies, what Dave calls "doing the good work".
However, here are some of my recollections of when I started to come to grips with my LBP and began my way to towards being TMS aware. This is just a list off the cuff in no particular order.
- Stop fighting the pain. Give in. Let it hurt, dont fight it. Since this is indeed TMS, the pain will not damage you. Its not your fault, don't blame yourself. I have some other posts in this forum talking about this, search for them and give them a read, do a member search.
- Scream, yell, but not where you can be heard. Tennis Tom, myself and others yell in the privacy of our automobiles. If you are in a family household where you understandingly don't want to alarm your loved ones, find a place where you can let it all out.
- Beat up a pillow, or other benign way to release some anger. Baseball65 talks about several I had not heard of before. I particularly liked the one about drawing faces on objects that then meet their demise. Even though you may still have some other repressed anger that you need to resolve, at least you can unlearn keeping things inside you mind, and exercise some new harmless behaviour.
- Never give up, never surrender. Its TMS, have faith, you will prevail.
Take care. -Stryder |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 08:43:28
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"Of course, I could try beating the hell out of someone (acting, of course), THEN forgive them. Hey, I like that. I'll beat the crap out of you for that thing you did to me way back when, then we'll talk about forgiveness. Think I'll try that!"
That works for me! Of course it sometimes takes many months of couch beatings to get to the forgiveness but I have forgiven an ex-boyfriend and an ex-boss - so anything is possible. The key? I find the trick is forgiving myself.
Remember that old office chestnut? "The beatings will continue until moral improves? Well, that's my strategy for fighting TMS. I say let the beatings begin!
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 19:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Logan
... The key? I find the trick is forgiving myself. ...
Good point Logan. I think we all are too hard on ourselves. -Stryder |
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Feeling anger, relieving low back TMS
