| Author |
 Topic  |
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2013 : 14:19:38
|
Just wondering about your experience with cortisone? I have had shoulder pain for about a year (diagnosed as a small rotator cuff tear and bursitis), done months of PT and RICE, etc with no relief. Last november I finally decided to do a cortisone shot and the pain went away totally (keeping in mind that I still "babyed" my shoulder after the shot, not playing sports and whatnot.
As soon as I finally started lifting light weights and playing sports again about 2 months after the shot, the pain came back. I have since then stopped playing sports and weights, and started focusing on TMS therapy.
Its been a month now and have definitely had relief of some of the shooting and throbbing "referred" pain, but the sharp deep pain in the rotator cuff is still there, and hurts with specific movements.
It got me thinking, what EXACTLY did the cortisone do to relieve the pain, IF IN FACT, this is TMS? I mean, does cortisone simply numb or mask the pain? They say its a powerful anti-inflammatory, so it makes me wonder about my shoulder and what is the cause of my pain? I want to know because it will help me figure it out and hopefully heal it.
I REALLY and truly want to believe this is all TMS, and have even committed to it mentally, not stressing about it for 1 month now and doing tms mental exercises, but I have not seen significant results as I did years ago when i had severe back pain and read Healing Back Pain for the first time. This makes me wonder if there is something physically wrong in my shoulder.
Any input is greatly appreciated....thanks |
|
|
gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 14:28:28
|
I am just guessing:
- it started a placebo treatment..
- blood flow (oxygen) increased to take care of the cortisone in that area..
I wonder if there ever has been research whether it is placebo or not. |
 |
|
|
Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 14:53:50
|
Sdiddy,
I have had a huge amount of experience with TMS, and I am the first to consider TMS as a cause.....however as humans we tend to be a little on the stupid side. I see on this site and I, myself, for many years was a TMS fundamentalist.
Committing to TMS when TMS is not the cause is dangerous and could cause you real damage. You must RULE OUT all possible physical causes as best as you can. Anything with an "Itis" is inflammation.....which is NOT TMS. I made the mistake of treating inflammation as TMS for 9 years. In my view you can only have two issues with your body....emotional or diet.
Diet causes inflammation......get your diet under control and then you can approach it as TMS with confidence and a committed mind, should the issue continue.
This might go against the general advice you'll get here, but I have much experience with TMS and inflammation......and I don't suffer with either now.
Research the role of an acidic / high animal protein diet on inflammation.....you will be shocked.
Buy some Turmeric caps......these are as good if not better than any man made anti-inflammatory.
If you have a diet issue you cannot fix it with an emotional approach as you'll send yourself crazy.
It might be possible that you have two issues going on as I did. TMS and diet related inflammation. No one here can give you an answer, and you should not believe anyone, everyones ego wants them to think they're an expert, including mine! Don't believe anything until you can find solid evidence to backup the claims.....you need to research this and understand for yourself.
I have given you my suggestions based on experience......but it might not be right for you and you can only know what your issue is by trying it and looking at the results
Good luck
D |
Edited by - Darko on 05/12/2013 15:06:31 |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:01:54
|
darko thanks for the info - are you saying you think in my case this is NOT tms? or that i need to do more to find out? I dont know what else I CAN do that is non-invasive. we have done an MRI already but the 2 doctors that saw it both said they see what looks like a small tear but its inconclusive (partly because i did an open MRI which doesnt show as clear as a closed one). I am incredibly claustrophobic and wont do a closed one.
One doc wanted to do an explorative surgery which i refused. I honestly just dont know why its not getting better. i dont stress about it much anymore and even when the pain gets triggered, i sort of just ignore it or tell myself its just stress related and dont worry about it.
has anyone else had a pain in the shoulder or rotator that stuck around for a long time and wouldnt let go after started TMS therapy?? |
|
|
|
Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:12:45
|
I am not saying anything, I am suggesting you approach this with an open mind.
Diet is inflammation....research it. Then after a few months you can approach it as TMS.
You can't expect to heal without understanding yourself or your body.
I'm sorry I can't give you a simple answer......life isn't always simple :-)
Start with the diet and then look at emotional.
D |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:23:18
|
| I don't know about diet and inflammation, but I think Darko is right that sometimes people are too quick to jump to the conclusion that problems are psychogenic before realistically exploring and ruling out other plausible explanations -- the "everything looks like a nail" thing. |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:26:08
|
| Oh I forgot to mention I already eeat a very healthy diet, no red meat, and happen to have turmeric everyday anyways, so not sure if diet is the issue with me. |
|
|
|
Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 15:57:46
|
Sdiddy,
quote:
so not sure if diet is the issue with me
perhaps it would server you better to be sure.......as in 100%, you've kicked over every single rock and know more about this than most other people sure!?
I don't want to seem intense or drive the point.....but from what I have learnt no read meat is not enough.....I am a vegan simple because of health reasons. Once again do your research!
but a wise man once said "You can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it"
My biggest road block to healing was my own mind and thinking I already knew about the topic. Before you can heal you must rule out ALL other possibilities with 100% certainty and then you are going to heal much easier.......I didn't do it this and it took a long time with much suffering.
Good luck
D |
Edited by - Darko on 05/12/2013 16:31:17 |
|
|
|
gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 16:46:11
|
I developed pain in my right foot last summer. In August, I had a cortisone shot between my toes, where I'd been having a tingling sensation. The tingling went away, but I then developed pain in the tips of my toes. My doctor told me to try toeless sandals; I did and the pain moved to the top of my foot and exploded into such severe pain I could not wear shoes or stand comfortably for months and months.
In my opinion if TMS wants to get you it will get you. For me, a cortisone shot simply moved the pain around to another location.
I have been on the TMS program since January. My pain has been improving slowly, slowly. With every improvement I become more and more convinced it is simply TMS. Occasionally I get pains in other locations--hip, knee, etc. I tell myself it's TMS, think of other things, and before I realize it the pain has gone away.
|
|
|
|
gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 16:55:05
|
Oh, and about inflammation:
In January, my doctor ordered a bone scan of both my feet. During this procedure, I was given a shot that included a small dose of radiation (!) that allowed the computer to pick up any tiny fracture that might be in my bones. There was none, of course. But while the procedure was being done, I was facing the computer screen. I asked the technician what the "white spots" were--they were exactly in the location of pain at the top of my right foot. He said that was "inflammation." I noticed there were white spots in my left foot, too--at the location of my bunion, which was bothering me that day.
Two months later, when I started a walking program (five minutes a day at first) I would immediately have bunion pain when I started walking. I thought this was suspicious, as I had spent much of the day on my feet (I'm a teacher) without bunion pain. It was like my subconscious knew this was walking for pleasure (rather than survival/livelihood) and it didn't want me to do it. So as I walked I told myself the bunion pain was just TMS. About 20 minutes later it disappeared. I did this over the course of the next few weeks and the bunion pain stopped coming when I walked. Now whenever my bunion starts hurting I remind myself that it's just TMS and it goes away rather quickly.
But I was reminded of the white spots that signaled "inflammation" during the bone scan. I thought, if the scan was able to pick up inflammation that turned out to be treatable with TMS thinking, then obviously the more severe pain in my other foot could be treated the same way! In a way I was lucky I had such a severe (and I'm guessing expensive) test. It showed me that even if inflammation is real and verifiable, it is still treatable with TMS thinking.
The pain in my right foot has proven more difficult to get rid of, but I think that's because it is so wrapped up with fear. As I move forward I am working on letting go of fear. It's very hard but I believe it is what ultimately will make the pain go away. |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 17:02:43
|
| I've had shoulders twice and cured with time, no surgeries. I didn't know about TMS for the first one but now realize it was due to a volatile relationship break-up--ergo, TMS. The shoulder probably lasted six months. Just got over another shoulder, not as bad because I understood the TMS of it. It just faded away. I'm betting yours is TMS too and you just need to wait it out. What are the emotional elements going on concurrently??? I'm betting it's TMS because you are already prone to neurosis with your claustrophobia and food obsession. Diet has nothing to do with this. I ate whatever I wanted to and my shoulder/TMS went away. I've done the MRI chamber thing twice and actually enjoyed the solitude. I don't recommend you go back to do it because they might find something. Everybody makes such a big deal of the MRI thing that it's become this big urban myth thing that it's a horrible experience--BS--it's no more claustrophobic then sitting in a car. |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 17:19:02
|
| Tom you obviously aren't claustrophobic. For people who are the closed MRI can be pretty rough, even though rationally you would think knowing it's of limited duration it shouldn't be that big a deal. Being unable to move with something inches from your face is a lot different from being in a car. |
Edited by - pspa123 on 05/12/2013 17:20:35 |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 18:03:26
|
thanks darko - although I am not vegan, about 50% of my meals are vegetarian. I also eat minimal to no gluten, never red meat, never pork, never fried foods, and fresh squeezed veggie juice with turmeric every morning. I also try to only eat organic foods. I am 5'8'' male and 135 lbs, so not overweight. I dont know what else I can do diet-wise to be honest....any other ideas?
quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Sdiddy,
quote:
so not sure if diet is the issue with me
perhaps it would server you better to be sure.......as in 100%, you've kicked over every single rock and know more about this than most other people sure!?
I don't want to seem intense or drive the point.....but from what I have learnt no read meat is not enough.....I am a vegan simple because of health reasons. Once again do your research!
but a wise man once said "You can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it"
My biggest road block to healing was my own mind and thinking I already knew about the topic. Before you can heal you must rule out ALL other possibilities with 100% certainty and then you are going to heal much easier.......I didn't do it this and it took a long time with much suffering.
Good luck
D
|
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 18:11:58
|
hi tennis tom thanks for the info. I actually HAVE done a closed MRI once and it was the single more horrifying and scarring experience of my life. I know that might sound crazy to someone like you, but I have always had a fear of tight spaces, as if I cant breathe or will be stuck and buried alive. Ill never do it again.
That being said, the big major life change going on with me right now is the pressure to have kids. I am 34, my wife 32 and we are sort of at that crossroad where we need to make a decision and start trying, but I am not 100% ready (of course). I am very self-aware about it though, and admittedly terrified, but trying to research a lot and talk to a lot of people to learn more about it all. Still, it scares me. My dad has also been sick for a few years which is always in the back of my mind. BUt aside from those, i live an above average quality of life with what I consider to be a below average amount of stress. My job is good and affords me good pay with flexible schedule and less than 40 hours a week and I have a beautiful wife who i love and a good life. The biggest issue aside from the two things mentioned is that i miss sports terribly and want to be healed so i can go play bball and golf again.
The hardest part is that the deep pain in the side of the shoulder (rotator) just hasnt lessened up at all. The residual pain around the arm though, front back down the arm, HAVE moved around and lessened, but the primary pain hasnt, which is just strange to me after 1 month of TMS therapy. Im facing my fears, im self aware, so why wont it go away? Did you experience this also? I thought I was much stronger (mentally) to beat TMS, based on what I did for my back years ago. I beat 6 years of severe back pain within a couple months of reading healing back pain, and it was probably 75% better after only a couple weeks. This is different from that.
thank you
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I've had shoulders twice and cured with time, no surgeries. I didn't know about TMS for the first one but now realize it was due to a volatile relationship break-up--ergo, TMS. The shoulder probably lasted six months. Just got over another shoulder, not as bad because I understood the TMS of it. It just faded away. I'm betting yours is TMS too and you just need to wait it out. What are the emotional elements going on concurrently??? I'm betting it's TMS because you are already prone to neurosis with your claustrophobia and food obsession. Diet has nothing to do with this. I ate whatever I wanted to and my shoulder/TMS went away. I've done the MRI chamber thing twice and actually enjoyed the solitude. I don't recommend you go back to do it because they might find something. Everybody makes such a big deal of the MRI thing that it's become this big urban myth thing that it's a horrible experience--BS--it's no more claustrophobic then sitting in a car.
|
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 19:24:37
|
SD,
Thanks for the reply, my first "shoulder" was excrusciating, took a long time to get over, but went away after a placebo cure doing traction for a month, when the neurologist told me to "Or he would be doing surgery on me, if I didn't stop playing tennis and do the (stupid) traction bag." I hate surgery more then you hate MRI's. My recent shoulder faded away after a few months, was not as bad as the first because I had TMS knowledge this time. I woke up one morning and thought, "Oh, it's gone." The thought of having kids would scare the hell out of me too. Think about how claustrophobic the kid must feel, like being in an MRI but for nine months--maybe you are feeling subconscious TMS empathy for the kid. I gotta' go now to a Mother's Day dinner, hopefully prime rib rare. |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 21:25:09
|
| curious - can you describe what part of your shoulder the pain was in? was it motion-specific pain? just wondering who else out there has similar symptoms as me. |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 23:33:20
|
The first one years ago was dx'ed as pinched nerve c6/c7, by a neuro. The recent one hurt doing backstroke swimming and putting weight on it like getting out of bed. I think it's irrelevant and couterproductive to view this from a anatomical structural perspective, since I think it's TMS, therefore nerves don't get "pinched" if you recall your Sarno and it's caused by OXYGEN DEPRIVATION. I refer to the first one as "Barbara" and the most recent one as "somebody else".
I think you're way underestimating your stress from the pressure of having to have kids. Why did you get married if you didn't want to have kids?--just curious? You fit the TMS perfectionist personality since you're studying and talking to people about having them. Most people just have a bottle of wine and it happens. How's your wife on the having kids issue, is she putting the screws to you? |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 16:48:58
|
hi tennis tom...
1. we got married because it was love at first site and I adored her. never a doubt and 12 years after mtg, still none. it was about us and our love and balance....not about kids. we love being with each other, eating good food, traveling the world, etc. we werent ready for kids and still probably arent, but its getting to that age for us.
2. no she isnt pressuring...its more family and societal pressures. both are parents are asian and traditional and they are used to having a lot of kids and at a much younger age. but to be honest, they arent abrasively pressuring....its really moreso myself saying to me "you need to grow up and make up your mind and get going with it or it will be too late". its just scary...such an enormous life change. suddenly, picking up and going somewhere for a weekend trip is no longer an option...even picking up and going to dinner. it becomes all about the babies. its just scary.
I have been doing an exercise i used to do a lot when my back was hurt which is body relaxation, breathing, being aware of my stresses, facing them, and also imagining the blood "flowing" to that part of my body. it helped a lot with my back and cured me much more easily than this shoulder thing. in fact just yesterday i was jumping out of a chair and slipped a bit on the kitchen floor, and my body went one way and my arm the other, and the shooting pain that went through my shoulder was excruciating. it made me feel weak and scared.
thanks hope this clarifies some things. |
|
|
|
Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 20:35:48
|
s...
Somewhere in either HBP or MBP, Dr. Sarno mentions that those who get shots of cortisone often have their symptoms disappear for a time. He did not know why.
I'll bet if you reach around and feel your trap muscle and deltoid and maybe some of the other muscles that surround the rotator cuff, you will find that they are hypertonic. I'll bet your trap especially. This is the muscle that reacts the quickest to anxiety and stress in many, many people and it can refer pain all over the place, not just down your arm, etc..
From what you say about your debate on whether or not to have children, I will bet that even though the pressure from your wife and in-laws are not there, the pressure is put there by you to "do the right thing" and fulfill the role expected of you by society and others and yourself. If this is the case, knowing this can certainly help. Are you hard on yourself. Are you turning the screws on yourself?
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
|
|
|
sdiddy
46 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 21:51:16
|
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
But im very self aware of all that and the pressure to have kids. If I am self aware of it, dealing with it in a healthy manner, then why is the pain still there? does it just take more time?
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure. |
|
|
|
Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 06:36:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
But im very self aware of all that and the pressure to have kids. If I am self aware of it, dealing with it in a healthy manner, then why is the pain still there? does it just take more time?
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure.
I can only say this: rotator cuff tears, as is pointed out in MBP, used to be blamed on bursitis and bone spurs. With modern imaging, doctors can now see tears in the muscles, many of which come from natural use or weekend jock activities, if you are not a pro athlete.
A very non-athletic woman friend of mine, who has had MB symptoms, recently went and had an MRI and the doctor said "rotator cuff tear" and suggested surgery. She said no way; she could live with it. She no longer has any pain. She had the WILLINGNESS to accept it. La Kevin in another post talks about his "ah-ha" moment, and the take I got on it was that he was willing to accept his situation; then the pain faded.
You know consciously you are generating stress about having children, and you know you have the type of personality that reacts in a way to foster TMS symptoms. Why not really try to go with it?
If you do have injury to the muscles of your rotator cuff, it is not a life altering thing unless you are a major league pitcher. It will heal, real or psychogenic, no? But not when the OCD mind is focused on it.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
The science of cortisone and TMS
