Could this pelvic pain be TMS?
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Topic:
Topic author: hikergirl
Subject: Could this pelvic pain be TMS? Hello:
Replies:
Posted on: 01/13/2012 14:52:35
Message:
Back in the fall of 09, i was experiencing a bout of pretty severe rt sided SI pain along with spasms and the whole shebang..i had had bouts of this over the years, would last a month or two and then go away. This time though it seemed to be hanging on longer than usual. Eventually around the first of the year (2011), my back started to feel better, but i had developed a cold and was fighting that, I next had an outbreak of HSV2 (on upper left buttock) which I hadn't had in a while; i attributed this to my suppressed immune system due to my cold. Anyway, a week or so later, I developed left sided vulvar pain. I of course went to my PCP, who ran the gamut of tests and could find nothing wrong...I then saw my gyno who could also find nothing wrong. I finally saw a vulvovaginal specialist, who said she thought it could be post herpetic neuralgia combined with musculoskeletal issues...I also had an ache deep inside left thigh, almost at pubic rami, anyway, basically she didn't know. The jury is out on whether HSV2 can cause neuralgia as there is no documented cases as such, only for shingles which is a different type of herpes. SHe started me on low dose neurontin (300mg) which seemed to help a little but symptoms persisted. Now during all of this time, i was frantically searching the internet, getting myself into such a panic I couldn't see straight. I was convinced I would end up bedridden with pain, my life as i knew it, OVER....4 mos later I became pregnant, happily so :)...and I came off of the neurontin. I was ok for the first trimester, pain wise, then groin pain started and progressively got worse as the pregnancy wore on, specifcally the left side. Of course the entire pregnancy I was convinced I had PN (pudendal neuralgia). My symptoms matched up except for the I did not have sitting pain which is a classic PN symptom. I still was convinced that was what it was and was petrified to deliver vaginally as it would make my symptoms worse. I lost sleep, cried, panicked the whole pregnancy, not only over my pain, but also for the health of my baby, I was 43, and have a history of premature delivery, my other daughter was born at 29.5 weeks. Fast forward, I delivered a very healthy baby girl in April 2011 via c-section due to my own choosing over the fear of the vaginal birth. Things were good for a couple of months, i was walking every day with stroller, but still had a bit of left sided groin/inside sits bone/sits bone pain but nothing crazy...had no sitting pain....because of this leftover pain, i started to panic again, my obgyn suggested I start PT, now I am still convinced I have PN in my mind....i go to PT and my PT feels where I am complaining of tenderness and she says 'oh its the obturator internus' muscle...well I go home and google Obturator Internus and FREAKKKK OUTTTT!!!! the pudendal nerve is extremely related to the OI muscle, it like runs through it or something...so i read this, and over the next weeks to months I develop sitting pain...I CAN NO LONGER SIT or it feels as if someone has kicked me right in the behind...my sits bone is sore and tender to press as is inside of it...also still some vaginal wall tenderness...now this is ALL Left sided only...
So sorry to be so long winded but I want to get it all out there so I can determine if I am heading down the right road in thinking this could be TMS...
In the year before ALL of this pain started, I divorced my alcoholic husband of 9 years, met someone pretty quickly, sold my home, and moved myself and my daughter to another state, about an hour away from family and friends. I have a hx of anxiety and hypochondria, the hypochondria as far back as maybe 8yrs old. I also have a horrible family history that I am constantly freaking over, my sister had breast cancer and my mother ovarian so every 6 mos I have to go for screenings. I feel like I am doomed and I feel live i live under a feeling of doom every day of my life.
i have read sarno's book a few times, have tried my hand at journaling as well, can't say I have 'committed' though. I am having a hard time convincing myself this is TMS. Does anyone have thoughts as to whether this could really be TMS?
Could the pain really be only on one side of my pelvis? I know Dr. Sarno states that the body is smart, and if it exploits areas that are areas of injury already. Being in a new relationship I was freaking out about HSVII breakouts even though I hadn't had one in over a year, but I was constantly thinking about my pelvic area..i never had breakouts in the genital area but was scared to death i would and i didn't want to pass it to my partner. Then i develop left sided vulvar pain? I don't know!!!!
I need SOME thoughts as to if I should pursue this path or not???? HELP!!!
My current symptoms are (ALL Left sided):
sit bone and inside sit bone
left sided vag pain
sitting exacerbates the pain
standind and walking the pain is minimal, i have no urinary or bowel issues, and no sexual dysfunction issues.
Thank you to any and all who want to comment and I am soo ohappy to have found this group
Reply author: balto
Replied on: 01/13/2012 15:10:06
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by hikergirl
I need SOME thoughts as to if I should pursue this path or not???? HELP!!!
Beside keep going to the doctors, you don't really have any other choice?
You can get rid of your pain just like you could with your ex. You have to make choices and just do it. Do it the mindbody way.
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 01/13/2012 16:39:26
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by hikergirl
Well i know i need to JUST DO IT. But does it sound like it could be tms? I need some encouragement i guess but at the same time dont want anyone to blw smoke if they dont feel it is
Reply author: balto
Replied on: 01/13/2012 16:46:03
Message:
My thinking is you've already went through all these tests and all your doctors said they could not find anything wrong, Then it got to be tms/anxiety. It is kind of risky to self diagnose. when the doctors said there is nothing wrong, just trust them and start thinking psychosomatic. You should start reading Sarno's and Claire Weeke's books and apply what they taught. Very soon you will be well again.
Reply author: Edbl79
Replied on: 01/13/2012 20:00:10
Message:
I think the fact that you are even posting this thread is a good sign that you are on your way to healing. This TMS thing is different for everyone and I think you've already identified the areas of your life that can contribute to and increase your pain, I.e. the googling as I like to call it. When my left hip started to hurt back in November I fell victim to the Internet. I was convinced I had everything from bursitis to herniated discs to dehydration to you name it. I was looking at mris that other people had posted, watching every video I could looking for that magic stretch that would fix me. The point is, I think you've identified this part of your process and from here can hopefully fully realize the impact it has on your well-being and begin to work on overcoming the fear you create. From there you can move on to the other areas you need to focus on and get better. I know you will!
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 01/13/2012 20:36:59
Message:
With these types of symptoms the docs tend to thtow the dignosis' in a bucket and or go for diagnosis of exclusions. They r all scary no matter which they may think u have. And b/c there r no definitive tests, the mind can go all sorts of places, and mine goes to PN. My symptoms r so painful and effect everything i do. I want to believe this is not an entrapped nerve in my pelvis and im stuck this way for life. I want to bend and sit without pain or fear i will make my situation worse. I want to believe i can make this better! :(
Reply author: balto
Replied on: 01/14/2012 07:04:53
Message:
I have never heard of anyone die from PN or anyone paralyze from PN. We human have a very high tolerance to pain. The worse part of your "illness" is the fearful feeling, the worry, the anticipation, not the pain.
My friend was diagnosed with PN few years ago. She went through lots of physical therapy. She was treated with steroids, with some kind of radio wave treatment, and was given all kind of pain medicines. And nothing work. One day she was given some kind of antidepressant because she was so nervous, depressed by her condition, and lo and behold her pain lessen... she then slowly realize that her pain has an emotional origin, not physical or injury. After some life style changes and joinning some meditation classes, she was able to get rid of the pain in a short time.
Why not just set aside one month of your life and really deal with your pain the tms way. Make up your mind and really really think of it as emotional and not physical and see how it go. You've got nothing to loose and lots to gain.
And stop searching for symptoms on the web. 99% of the time they hurt more than help.
Goodluck to you.
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 01/17/2012 16:44:41
Message:
Hikegirl,
I was diagnosed with PNE last dec,but i have doubts,i am a very anxios,nervous person and the way events happened before this hell,are very rough,so that makes me beleive i have TMS,but i haven't done anything yet ,i don't know where to start from? i have never journaled in my life,how do i do it? i feel lazy lol
deep inside of me i am angry,frustrated and sad extremely sad.
my symptoms are rectal,vaginal and perineal pain,with burning sensation.
i can sit and have sex but pain comes after doing so.
bending is no a problem.
Last year was extremely waful in terms of family issues,a lot of pressure at home,to many happening at the same time,girl lets be positive and think this is tms ,wher ei feel lost is how to overcome tms?
Reply author: ozagnes
Replied on: 01/22/2012 15:59:28
Message:
Hello there felow pelvic pain sufferers!
Well, I hope you will learn form my experience...
I had a yeast infection 3 years ago, pain did not go away, I was diagnosed with Vestibulitis, started reading about it, thought "jeez! At least I am lucky, some women can't even wear jeans or sit"...2 weeks later I could not wear panties, could not sit. So I developped "generalised vulvodynia"...had all the treatments including very invasive ones like botox injections and bartholinectomy, nothing worked...And I saw my current pelvic pain specialist (gyne) who diagnosed me with PN.
Now, there aren't many PN specialists in the world, I saw the only one in Australia, and one in France (where most PN research is done). that latest one told me I needed a vestibulectomy. Because my specialist in Australia was not so convinced, i went to New York see the US vestibulectomy expert, who told me straight "I can remove 95% of your pain with surgery, you're a classic case". So I did it (horribly painful surgery, 2 weeks with ice between my legs), and guess what, it did not help.
3 months ago I read Sarno, and I am still reading and re-reading it, and guess what? Much better, I can sit much longer, even in a car, I am now wearing jeans etc. how? By doing exactly what specialists had told me to avoid, so you fight the daily habits that keep on reminding your mind that there is something physically wrong with you.
I am not 100% yet, have a lot of issues to examine (grew up with emotionnally abusive mother and absent father so I have typical TMS personnality), but I'll get there and so will you.
And I sent an email to my australian specialist (who dignosed me with PN, did botox, steroid and other injections etc) and plaining how I had been much better since taking a "spychological" approach, and mentionned Sarno.
His reply was that it was great, that the "books I mentionned" were truely phenomenal and that it was great I responded so well.
So here you go, a PN specialist that is open to the psychosomatic approach. Too bad he did not send me in that direction himself, but I guess he is not qualified to do so, after all he is a surgeon, not a psychiatrist.
What were my symptoms:
- burning, shooting, tingling, cramping in vulvar area, clitoris, also sit bone (after I was diagnosed with PN, nocebo?)
- more on my left side than right
- pain at beginning of urination
- more pain with sitting
- pain at the beginning of sex (shooting at penetration) and sometimes after (burning)
So yes symptoms can be on one side, sometimes it switches to the other side as well. I find that symptoms can vary in nature (burning, shooting, cramping) and that is a great trick from my brain because then I get obsessed about "analysising" what symptom I have today and is one better/worse than another? is burning rather than shooting a good sign? it is all about getting you obsessed with it...
I have decided since yesterday to call/label my pain "doodoo" when I notice it rather than burning or shooting or cramping or whatever, label it something completely neutral and hopefully that will help me stop obsessing about the nature of the pain ;)
I hope this help
:)
agnes
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 01/24/2012 09:55:31
Message:
Hi Agnes
Your post is soo encouraging for me :)...I struggle daily with believing that what I have is TMS. I want to believe it is, its just that it is so strange that these symptoms literally started overnight a couple of years ago....I had had a very turbulent year prior to the vulvar pain starting....as i stated in the previous post, I divorced an alcoholic husband and I had so much anger about how the divorce turned out...B/c I had been the primary breadwinner due to his inability to hold a job, I got totally screwed monetarily....i get measly child support due to the same reason....in that same year, I met someone and ended up selling my home and moving to the boonies, leaving my friends, family and support system behind...about 6 mos later, BOOM! this crap all started....but when i think of the symptoms starting, i woke up one day a week or so after an HSVII outbreak, and I had vulvar pain...i had never had that before...I visited the doc went thru all the tests and all was neg...then i started to GOOGLE and read about vulvodynia and oh my the freakouts started, the pain increased, and I started the vulvovaginal specialist route....the VV online forums, support groups reading and re-reading and continually freaking...My pain changed and seemed to worsen during and post my recent pregnancy. I started PT, and when the PT told me what muscle I seeded to be tender at, I went home, googled it, saw it was intertiwned with the Pudendal Nerve, again freaked out and then I developed sitting pain and sits bone pain over the next several months, to the point now that it is so tender I have to sit on cushions or it acts up. I guess as I am typing, I am seeing that perhaps I created these symptoms due to my frantic internet searches? Does the fear and stress of 'research' create symptoms? I have read the Mind Body Prescription and am just starting the structural education program.
I would appreciate any feedback or opionions you have about my situation :)
I just want you to know that your post did give me hope...and I am SOOO VERY THANKFUL for that.
Reply author: ozagnes
Replied on: 01/28/2012 19:16:59
Message:
Hi Hikergirl,
I am so glad if my posts help you in any way!
I strongly beleive internet searches really play a part in developping symptoms, simply because a doctor, even if he diagnoses you with a syndrome like vulvodynia or PN, never tells you what the worse senario is.
Because you are curious, you go on internet and find out how horrible it can become. This brings on fear and anxiety, which is the best food for TMS.
Only when I read that vulvodynia patients could have pain sitting, did I start having pain sitting. Same goes with wearing underwear or trousers, pain at urination, and the list goes on.
It is a very difficult call because you want to stay on top of medical information about your condition, but it plants the seed for the worse to come.
And it is very addictive too!
So once you are clear about the fact that there is no true logical medical reason for your pain (and by reason, I don't include tight muscle, unless you've just run a marathon or done some drastic activity, and even then it should not last), stay out of internet searches for medical treatments. Try to relax about it.
What I think helps me the most is when I manage to really think that I am not sick, then I can barely notice the pain, and I am so happy!
:)
agnes
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/02/2012 03:47:33
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by ozagnes
Hi Hikergirl,
I am so glad if my posts help you in any way!
I strongly beleive internet searches really play a part in developping symptoms, simply because a doctor, even if he diagnoses you with a syndrome like vulvodynia or PN, never tells you what the worse senario is.
Because you are curious, you go on internet and find out how horrible it can become. This brings on fear and anxiety, which is the best food for TMS.
Only when I read that vulvodynia patients could have pain sitting, did I start having pain sitting. Same goes with wearing underwear or trousers, pain at urination, and the list goes on.
It is a very difficult call because you want to stay on top of medical information about your condition, but it plants the seed for the worse to come.
And it is very addictive too!
So once you are clear about the fact that there is no true logical medical reason for your pain (and by reason, I don't include tight muscle, unless you've just run a marathon or done some drastic activity, and even then it should not last), stay out of internet searches for medical treatments. Try to relax about it.
What I think helps me the most is when I manage to really think that I am not sick, then I can barely notice the pain, and I am so happy!
:)
agnes
So...you mmean that if i have tightness in my pelvic floor muscles it is not TMS?
Reply author: ozagnes
Replied on: 02/11/2012 03:47:43
Message:
Hi lara,
No, in the contrary, i strongly think the tight pelvic muscles is a consequence of TMS. Same as tight shoulders, neck and back...
Put it simply, stress or tension can cause chronic tension and trigger points in any muscles, including the levic ones.
Actually, the pelvic muscles are the onces at the center of the body, they pretty much carry you all, so it is quite normal that they also carry a lot of your tension!
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 02/21/2012 10:43:02
Message:
I am not doing so well this week. I was doing a bit better last week, doing my journaling, trying to redirect my thoughts etc...also I was attempting to sit more..I have some discomfort when I sit but even more so after the fact. I am struggling as Sarno's book instructs us to just do the activities that previously have caused us pain. I have read thru other posts here and see that others have slowly introduced activites into their lives a little at a time, so as to gain more confidence each time. The problem with my pelvic pain and the potential dignosis of PN, is that they tell you if you have PN/sitting pain, you should AVOID sitting at all costs as they tell you the nerve could become irreversibly damaged. And the fact that i'm having pain after i sit i feel is re-inforcing the PN thoughts. My thought process is:
I am going to try sitting. OK I'm sitting how is the pain? am i causing more nerve damage? Oh god I'm going to pay for this later, and round and round the thoughts go.
My fear that this is physical/nerve damage is so strong. I also have an MRI scheduled for the end of March with a doctor whom has diagnosed others whose pelvic nerves are entrapped in scar tissue and are doomed with this pudendal nerve entrapment. Thats a whole other thought cycle:
What if my nerve is entrapped in scar tissue? there is no successful solution. I have to live with this pain indefinately. This is not fair to my children to have a mom like this, etc.....
As is obvious, I am still struggling with the TMS diagnosis, as there are some (thank you ozagnes) but few people on the forum whom have this type of pain.
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/21/2012 12:02:19
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by hikergirl
I am not doing so well this week. I was doing a bit better last week, doing my journaling, trying to redirect my thoughts etc...also I was attempting to sit more..I have some discomfort when I sit but even more so after the fact. I am struggling as Sarno's book instructs us to just do the activities that previously have caused us pain. I have read thru other posts here and see that others have slowly introduced activites into their lives a little at a time, so as to gain more confidence each time. The problem with my pelvic pain and the potential dignosis of PN, is that they tell you if you have PN/sitting pain, you should AVOID sitting at all costs as they tell you the nerve could become irreversibly damaged. And the fact that i'm having pain after i sit i feel is re-inforcing the PN thoughts. My thought process is:
I am going to try sitting. OK I'm sitting how is the pain? am i causing more nerve damage? Oh god I'm going to pay for this later, and round and round the thoughts go.
My fear that this is physical/nerve damage is so strong. I also have an MRI scheduled for the end of March with a doctor whom has diagnosed others whose pelvic nerves are entrapped in scar tissue and are doomed with this pudendal nerve entrapment. Thats a whole other thought cycle:
What if my nerve is entrapped in scar tissue? there is no successful solution. I have to live with this pain indefinately. This is not fair to my children to have a mom like this, etc.....
As is obvious, I am still struggling with the TMS diagnosis, as there are some (thank you ozagnes) but few people on the forum whom have this type of pain.
Hikegirl,
You sure sound like me,i also have an MRN this friday at John Hopkins Hospital.
I want to think Physcological,and i do ,but when the pain and burning hits me like is doing right now,that is when i wonder why my mind would be doing this to me? i am sitting more too,i also tried sex this weekend wich left me with this urethral burning pain...ughhh i am really lost in this tms,but i still have hope, i can't journal because makes me very depressed.let's focus on our emotions and see what happens,it's curious that my mom left today to our country for three months and i have more pain since yesterday,she left to the USA when i was 15 and that was extremely sad for me.being alone there in our country..
Is anybody here on this board that has overcome pelvic pain with TMS aproaching? please if someone has ,stand up for us!!! and give us answers,we are struggling trying to get "cured,",i don't want to accpet that i have pn/pne i just dont want to.
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 02/21/2012 15:30:12
Message:
I am sorry to hear of your struggle as well. I want to believe and continue to work with TMS as the causative factor in my situation...i just wish there was as much evidence for pelvic pain as there is for back, neck, rsi, rsd, etc....as i stated, I am having this internal struggle with myself with the activities, and whether or not to have the MRI...I have young children and feel I would be irresponsible by not having it, but at the same time am afraid of the results and how they may set me back in this process no matter the outcome.
Reply author: lynnl
Replied on: 02/21/2012 18:50:23
Message:
I'm a guy, and we guys have our own pelvic related issues, which I was having a couple of months ago. I've been one of Dr Sarno's TMS recoverers since about '98 or '99, and was pretty sure my symptoms were just another form of TMS.
To get to the point, I did some Googling and found this site. It's the work of two doctors at Stanford University. Of course they don't call it TMS, but in watching their videos and reading what they have to say, it left me with no doubt whatsoever that it's all the same thing, i.e. what we call TMS. And it can be resolved the same way.
Their treatment involves some manual manipulation techniques, and of course some mental work. Which of was out of the question for me since I'm a long way from Stanford. But just viewing their videos and reading their literature worked wonders for me, by setting my mind at ease. My recovery started, literally, within hours.
I highly recommend you watch this, and view in the context of Dr Sarno's TMS concept. I think it will help. Here's the link:
http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com/
Good luck. I hope you see speedy improvement.
If you do view their presentations (two, of about 12-14 min each), I would appreciate hearing your reactions and any questions or comments.
Lynn
Reply author: TaylorJoh
Replied on: 02/22/2012 13:16:16
Message:
quote:
I guess as I am typing, I am seeing that perhaps I created these symptoms due to my frantic internet searches?
I truly believe that is VERY possible. As I've written here before, I started getting OCD about getting hemmorhoids. The fear and anxiety about the region caused my rectal muscles to tighten up so much that I couldn't have a normal bowel movements without the aid of suppositories.
As a side note, for the last month or so, my pelvic pain returned with a vengeance. I was attributing it to a lot of stress that I've been under. I was putting my TMS tools to use but I was getting worse and worse. Then my belly button started oozing and my skin started bubbling up on my lower pelvic area. I knew then there was a major problem. I was also in the most excruciating pain in my life. Come to find out, I had a raging pelvic infection, most likely due to surgery months ago.
Having pelvic pain after numerous surgeries is really hard to treat with TMS as you never know if it's an infection or pain from the adhesions. It can be very frustrating.
Reply author: Carolyn
Replied on: 02/24/2012 01:45:00
Message:
Reading your story, it just shouts TMS to me so I had to weigh in on this. I seldom check the board anynmore but am up with insomnia :( I am living proof that the exact pelvic pain you describe can definitely be TMS and can be overcome using Sarno's methods alone. I won't recount it all here but please go back, search my posts and read my story!! I was diagnosed with everything you can imagine to explain the severe pain that eventually moved throughout the pelvic floor region but was basically due to extreme muscle tightness. I went through numerous therapies, meidcations and surgeries and each made it worse. I suffered with it for years- it completely took over my life until I found this board, started journaling, noticed illogical changes in my symptoms and saw the truth in it. It took a while but I still am completely, 100% free of pelvic pain for what must be about 6 years now. Other things that are TMS do still come up and it sometimes takes me a little while to recognize a new symptom for what it is but once I do, I can make it move on. There is incredible power in this and once you cure your pelvic pain you will be amazed at what else you can cure.
Carolyn
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/26/2012 11:50:09
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn
Reading your story, it just shouts TMS to me so I had to weigh in on this. I seldom check the board anynmore but am up with insomnia :( I am living proof that the exact pelvic pain you describe can definitely be TMS and can be overcome using Sarno's methods alone. I won't recount it all here but please go back, search my posts and read my story!! I was diagnosed with everything you can imagine to explain the severe pain that eventually moved throughout the pelvic floor region but was basically due to extreme muscle tightness. I went through numerous therapies, meidcations and surgeries and each made it worse. I suffered with it for years- it completely took over my life until I found this board, started journaling, noticed illogical changes in my symptoms and saw the truth in it. It took a while but I still am completely, 100% free of pelvic pain for what must be about 6 years now. Other things that are TMS do still come up and it sometimes takes me a little while to recognize a new symptom for what it is but once I do, I can make it move on. There is incredible power in this and once you cure your pelvic pain you will be amazed at what else you can cure.
Carolyn
Carolyn,
I am having problems too with my pelvic floor,all of the 4 colo rectal drs i have seen so far they think it is levator ani syndrome,or levator disfuncton,only one doctor has diagnosed me with PN/PNE.
I have had so many tests,last one this past friday ,it was a MRN basically what it is a neurography of the pelvis.
What is really worrying me now is that i am having a new symptom ,a deep pain in urethra after urinating,i didn't have that before.
It was rectal pain,sometimes vaginal and perineal,what is curious about this is that i have no pain while sitting ,only hrs after or after sex.
I know you are saying you got cured,but it isn't that easy when you are in big pain,is't kind of difficult to believe it is your own mind causing such pain.At the same time ,i ask myself why does the pain go away when i see my acupunturist? at least for a couple of hours.All of these started after a surgery ,and having terrible moments in family's life.
i've been trying to find your old posts,but i only found a few...
between neurontin and diazepam i hardly remember my name
Lara.
Reply author: Carolyn
Replied on: 02/26/2012 16:33:59
Message:
Lara,
My problems were first diagnosed as vulvodynia then Levator ani syndrome, pudendal neuralgia, SI joint disfunction and I also briefly had the bladder symptoms diagnosed as interstitial cystitis. They all had the same cause- tight pelvic floor muscles- but every doctor had a different set of treatments to suggest. The medications, aside from muscle relaxers and/or anti-anxiety pills, never helped and extensive and humiliating physical therapy just made it worse. For me it was a constant progression of symptoms in a slightly different area of my pelvic floor. It is definitely hard to believe that your mind can cause such intense pain but it CAN!!! And that is why this board exists.
I was also skeptical at first but I am a scientist which trains you to entertain all possibilities and let your observations show you the truth without bias. The first night I started journaling, I woke up screaming in the middle of the night. 1st piece of evidence that I had buried emotions that I had no idea were there. Then I noticed inconsistancies in my symptoms- coming or going when I was on vacation for example or changing after I learned about some new disorder. Mine also felt better after accupuncture. I looked in the past and remembered how my pain had gone away when I had broken a rib and then came back again once the rib was not hurting so much. I journaled about all of these things and Sarno's theory, as crazy as it sounded, started to make sense. I journaled out all of my negative emotions every night whether I felt like it or not and started practicing immediately focussing on my emotions every time I found myslef focussing on the pain. Slowly but surely I started getting better and the pain started shifting around. An old wrist injury started hurting like heck etc. I recognized this for what it was though and it was just part of the process of accepting this condition.
I really am 100% better and the horrible pain really was brain-induced. I personally think it's possible that levator ani, intersitital cystitis, pudendal neuralgia etc, etc, etc are never really physical problems. I see TMS occurring in virtually everyone I know- and I have been able to point the way to the cure for both my husband and a few friends who were willing to accept the possibility.
I just looked and if you just search teh site for "carolyn" you'll find 9 pages worth of posts with the details of my story in there somewhere. Believe it or not, I have moved on with my life and can't even remember all the diagnosis and treamtents I endured. Wishing you the best!!!! I know how awful it is when you can't sit, can't stand and can't even go to the bathroom without excruciating pain.
Carolyn
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/26/2012 17:21:52
Message:
Carolyn,
I read and read Dr Sarnos book,but can't start,for some reason i get so confused from where to start?
i KNOW I HAVE THE PERSONALITY OF A TMS'R i am a perfeccionist,i also have noticed i am always trying to please everyone,and very emotional.
Do i journal? and what else? how do i start?
did you stop taking medications suddenly ?or slowly?
what about exercising? or sex? i want to live! go to the movies,a restaurant,pta's meetings ,etc
Guide me please ,how do i start this healing process?
Thank you so much for responding .
Lara.
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 02/28/2012 14:12:25
Message:
@Carolyn,
your post(s) are encouraging to me...its amazing that you were able to overcome such a long history with this sort of pain. I can now think of YOU each time I just want to throw it in, crawl into a corner and cry. YOU are my new evidence. I don't wnat to forget Ozagnes too (thank you Ozagnes!!!) as she has also given me confidence in her own sucess'. This is a battle but one I am willing to engage in; I feel in my heart it is the road I am supposed to follow. I will admit it is so hard to continually fight with your mind and reel it back in when it starts to give you all the pieces of evidence that the problem is physical..I feel at times I have one toe in and one toe out but I am working on it! I am consciously trying to be aware and pull my mind back each time, looking instead on what i'm feeling at the moment, and also I am trying to 'breathe' each time I start to monitor the pain. I'm finding that when I am journaling, my mind will wander to the pain and say, 'is it gone?' ...and since it isn't, it wants to give me evidence to make me quit! I have to keep pushing but at the same time stop focusing on an'End Result'. I'm putting too much pressure on myself to get it done right, done quick and be pain free!
Me? Pressure on myself? Self Critical? NEVER! (ya right)
@lara
There is a structured program to get started on the TMS wiki that I found very helpful.
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/28/2012 16:40:49
Message:
Hikegirl,
Thank you so much,i started yesterday the wiki program,mm
i just got a phone call from my drs office saying that the MRN is normal,and that the urines test culture came back positive with bacteria.
Is it normal" to have uti's with pelvic pain? i mean ,one thing is the "pain" caused by the uncouncious mind and another thing is a real infection cause dby bacteria...so overwhelmed.
Reply author: Wavy Soul
Replied on: 02/28/2012 23:11:04
Message:
There is a TMS website by Abigail Stedley SPECIFICALLY about female pelvic pain being TMS.
http://anamsong.com/coaching/
I had these symptoms in my 40s - I now realize it was TMS - now at 60, NADA (painwise) in that department.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 02/29/2012 09:15:02
Message:
Thank you Wavy!
Today my wikipedia juornaling was very painful,i never tough i was so damaged by that event of my mother leaving to the USA when i was 15,there's one of my sister that brings the past to me,i hadn't seen her in years and last year she came ,with a lot of problems herself,and that's exactly when this pain started..she brings me sadness and bad memories but i still don't know why. she played the role as mother with me ,but she wasn't! ughh i love.hate her!
How are you Hikegirl? i am siting more ,and walking more too ! yay for me
Lara
Reply author: Jerseygal
Replied on: 03/02/2012 20:36:17
Message:
If anyone has any tips on how to get rid of Interstitial Cystitis using the mindbody approach, I would love to hear from them.
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 03/03/2012 16:38:50
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Jerseygal
If anyone has any tips on how to get rid of Interstitial Cystitis using the mindbody approach, I would love to hear from them.
Jerseygal,
What makes you think there's a diferent mindbody approach for getting rid of interstitial cystitis?
Use the same tips all of us use,i am not an expert here,but i knnow Carolyn,Ozaganes,Tennistom ,Darko can help you .
But one thing i know all of us start with the " knowledge" (that our subcouncious mind is causing the pain)as the penicilin of any of our issues.
Carolyn we need you here
Reply author: Carolyn
Replied on: 03/05/2012 21:43:07
Message:
I agree that healing from pelvic pain in whatever form is no different than treating any TMS syndrome so I don't have any advise on that other than that anyone on this board who has been successful will tell you. You just have to commit to doing the journaling and if you can't seem to make yourself do it, journal about why you don't want to journal. I had a workbook that gave me daily topics to get me started- Dr. Shubinger? maybe. Just decide that you are going to live your life as though there is no pain and allow yourself to feel defiant about it - get mad at the pain when it comes- and I mean really really mad! If you're by yourself at home, literally scream at it to STOP IT! I am not going to take this from you anymore! Then observe and see what happens- maybe you'll see your pain shift to another location or change in some way that will help the lightbulb go off in your head that your symptoms don't make sense and it must be TMS.
I also quit all forms of doctors and therapies- medications included (save for the occassional Xanax because I all of a sudden started having anxiety when I started this journey), all of which were just making me worse anyways and kept me focussed on the thought that I had a physical problem. Read and reread any book you can get your hands on to reinforce the mindbody connection and everytime you feel the pain, notice the feeling of powerlessness and desperation that comes with it and focus on that emotion instead of the pain. It really is all about taking the power back from the pain. As you have little successes, journal about them and remind yourself of them when the pain is back. For me it wasn't just gone one day, it was a process and even once I felt cured, I would occassionally feel that old familiar pain out of nowhere but as soon as I realized what is was, I could make it go away very quickly. I had not had pain in a very long time and I was revisiting the town where I used to live (I had moved away in the midst of all the pain) and waiting in line at my old favorite deli and all of a sudden I had the pain- clearly triggered by whatever memories or mental cues the place was bringing back for me. I almost laughed out loud- and then poof the pain was gone. This TMS stuff is crazy but it is true!! You just have to get to the point where you can see that for yourself. Persistance.
I'll try to check back in occassionally- pain just isn't a part of my life anymore so I don't think of it often. You absolutely can get there. I think the people that struggle and don't get better sometimes just can't take the leap and drop the physical treatments and stick with the reading/journaling as long as it takes. Just start, you have nothing to lose.
Carolyn
Reply author: hikergirl
Replied on: 03/06/2012 11:05:20
Message:
Hi Carolyn,
I am struggling so much with this pain. I cannot sit at all without deep left sided posterior groin pain as well as this horrible crawling deep sensation radiating into my left vag wall. It is horrible! If i do sit for any amount of time, I feel as if I have been kicked in the 'A#$' and sit bone inside are actually tender to the touch. Did you have this type of symptom? I HATE that I keep needing reinforcment but I just want to know if there is someone else out there who has this pain.
Reply author: TaylorJoh
Replied on: 03/06/2012 12:29:47
Message:
Awwww hikergirl, I understand the need for reinforcement. Trust me I have suffered my share of pelvic/vaginal pain. So much so, I was housebound for 2 years. Literally never left the house unless it was for doctor appointments. I wouldn't just have pain, it was excruciating. I thought I would end up in a wheelchair. It was thought that the pain was due to a massive fibroid tumor, but after surgery nothing changed for me.
What was holding me back from getting better even though I knew about TMS was that I could never be convinced it was truly TMS until the tumor was removed. Once that was gone, all obstacles was out of my way for TMS work. And I'm about 90% better. I can walk, stand and live life now. I do have quite a bit of ache if I'm on my feet a long time or walk long distance, but eventually that will go away.
Besides doing the TMS work, make sure your body is relaxed. Release your stomach muscles and that will help release you pelvic area. It will feel uncomfortable for awhile as your not used to it. But keep doing it. We don't realize how much we tense our pelvic muscles up. Throughout the day, check in with yourself. Take note of your muscles and tension and then just relax it all.
Also, what I did to help alleviate pain and pressure when I was sitting...
Fold two bath towels so that it is long. You will probably have to fold it 3 times. On both sides of the chair where your thighs go, put the towels there. There should be about a 5 inch space between the towels. When you sit on that your vagina and tailbone should barely touch the chair. I'm a graphic/web designer I have no choice but to sit for hours a day. That trick really saved me as the muscle between the vagina and anus was so tight it hurt with any type of pressure. And of course my tailbone too.
I can sit without it now, but I still feel more comfortable with the towels. I hope that helps you. I know what you're going through and you will get better. You just have to be convinced it's TMS and follow TMS protocol. Like Carolyn, it will all become a distant memory.
Reply author: Carolyn
Replied on: 03/06/2012 13:07:22
Message:
@hiker girl,
I had the pain for a long time and it was always evolving and changing slightly as different pelvic floor muscles became the focus so at some point I did have something similar to what you describe. Has yours always been exactly the same? How long have you had it? Are you journaling?
Carolyn
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 03/06/2012 16:58:51
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by hikergirl
Hi Carolyn,
I am struggling so much with this pain. I cannot sit at all without deep left sided posterior groin pain as well as this horrible crawling deep sensation radiating into my left vag wall. It is horrible! If i do sit for any amount of time, I feel as if I have been kicked in the 'A#$' and sit bone inside are actually tender to the touch. Did you have this type of symptom? I HATE that I keep needing reinforcment but I just want to know if there is someone else out there who has this pain.
All my pain is left sided,rectal,vaginal ,perineal ,coccygeal ,sacral ,ughh it's day 12 on my journaling and my pain is getting worse,my mind is playing me tricks,i was thinking that maybe scar tissue grew and the nerve is entraped,but hikegirl you haven't had a surgery down there,so you have more reasons to think your pain is not physical.
Today my pain is 9/10 and this burning that makes me want t rip off all my genitals!i want to wake up tomorrow and be pain free!
Reply author: Back2-It
Replied on: 03/06/2012 21:41:29
Message:
Just a word about nerve involvement and possible pain from it. I had surgery for gallbladder and was fine for several months, then pain developed on my side. After many tests I had three possible things causing the pain: a trapped abdominal nerve; a problem hernia; and a herniated disc mid back, which can refer pain to the same area. I was finally convinced that I had a trapped abdominal nerve from surgical scars. I went to a neurologist and he was not sure at all about a trapped nerve, and I thought, "hell, if he isn't sure, I'm not sure, either, so it isn't." The pain reduced almost overnight and finally went away in my abdomen and side.
Here is what I have learned the very hard way: When you are anxious and under stress for a very long period of time your core muscles have a tendency to contract and not release. This involves your back, abdomen and pelvis, all controlled by the autonomic nervous system.
My trapped nerve was not trapped, my hernia was not a problem, but my core muscles were contracted and could not release, because they are controlled by the autonomic nervous center. I
You might gain a better understanding of body physiology if you read Thomas Hanna's "Somatics". Your nerves, as Dr. Sarno points out, become involved in muscle contraction and can cause the burning and electric shock types of pain, and more. Sarno explains very well the spine part of the body, and is responsible for me disregarding my herniated disc. But...when it comes to a blow-by-blow description of muscles under stress and duress, I would recommend taking at look at "Somatics". It makes -- to me-- a good deal of sense.
Once you can become convinced of what cumulative stress can do to you, you can really begin the recovery by understanding that the pain is distressing but not dangerous.
Good luck!
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
Reply author: Carolyn
Replied on: 03/07/2012 08:12:28
Message:
@Back-2-it
I couldn't have said it better myself.
@Lara,
I had had surgery and on a subsequent surgery was told that I had an enourmous amount of scar tissue (adhesions) so I also was on the entrapped nerve track of thinking for a while. But it wasn't. I was also aware that I was clenching all of my muscles down there which I told myself was in response to the pain. Maybe it was in part but the tension increases the pain which incresase the clenching... it's a hard cycle to break. I did many different things aimed at relaxing those muscles and reducing my heightened autonomic responses. Along with journaling out my emotions religiously which I am still convinced was the most important, I listened to guided relaxation tapes- practiced meditation every single day, tried to consciously relax my pelvic floor every time I thought of it, spent some time in a hot tub, wore thermacare heat wraps in my undies around the house which brought me some relief and took occassional muscle relaxants. I found that physical therapy made things much worse so you might want to avoid that path. I also did some psychotherapy for quite some time though that was mostly after the pain was gone to deal with a lot of the anxiety that came up. It actually took quite a long time (several years) and I didn't find therapy dramatic but eventually ended up realizing a lot of things about my upbringing that I think were at the root of a lot of my repressed emotions. In the end I think it did me a world of good in many subtle ways because I recognize why I react to certain things the way I do and I think it has played a role in why I manage to stay pretty much pain free. I happened to have good insurance at the time which made it possible for me to continue for so long so if it's an option for you, give it a try. Just don't go and talk about the physical pain! My therapist was not familiar with Sarno's work but I told her about it and she was open minded, read the book, immediately realized it was true and started sharing it with her patients. She would sometimes tell me about how much it had helped some of her patients.
Statistics will show you that surgeries for these various conditions don't work and often make things worse. I had seven different surgeries, two botox injections down there and was on the verge of letting them cut the internal anal sphincter when I came on here and someone warned me against it- I'm SO glad I didn't- who knows what lasting effects that might have had on me. So don't consent to anything drastic. The mind-body approach works. You will be amazed and them you will find yourself back on here telling your success story to try to help others.
Carolyn
Reply author: Wavy Soul
Replied on: 03/07/2012 11:39:01
Message:
When I was struggling with this, in the early 90s, I was married to someone I didn't want to ****. I couldn't really face this fact, and I had all these symptoms very very intensely. I was doing therapy on the basis that I believed it was my subconscious stuff. I went to a zillion docs, straight and alternate, all of whom had a theory, many of whom offered me surgery, all of whom cost me an arm and a leg and almost other organs!
Not long after my marriage ended, I went home for a high school reunion and hooked up with my high school boyfriend. No pain! Aha!
Of course, all kinds of other symptoms now arose. It's a kind of physical miracle what the flesh can design to keep us busy and not present with our exquisite existential agony (which changes into ecstasy when fully experienced and unresisted).
Again, there is also very good TMS advice focused on this issue by Abigail Stedley, who recovered from this issue. Although someone rightly said above that TMS is TMS, it is helpful to hear from someone who had a successful TMS recovery from a symptom that you are struggling with.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Reply author: ajm222
Replied on: 03/07/2012 21:08:06
Message:
Anyone else here have trouble having a bowel movement? When I go, no matter how much I try to relax it feels like I'm passing it out of a very narrow opening. My BMs are pretty small. I had surgery there twice for an anal fissure and would swear I had anal stenosis to some degree but two colo rectal surgeons have told me the opening is more than large enough to have very large and normal BMs. I told them it didn't seem possible. They just said eat more fiber. I also have pressure and pain down there regularly and incomplete BMs. I'd love to have one large BM to prove to myself it's possible but it hasn't happened in 2 years since I started obsessively worrying about this again (well over a decade after the surgeries).
Reply author: tennis tom
Replied on: 03/07/2012 21:18:18
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by ajm222
Anyone else here have trouble having a bowel movement?
Sorry Ajm, can't help you in that department, have you tried drinking coffee? That does it for me, I'm what you'd call a "coffee responder".
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
Reply author: Wavy Soul
Replied on: 03/07/2012 21:47:56
Message:
I use coffee too, but "in reverse."
Okay, I think I have said enough in this thread!
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 03/08/2012 09:36:13
Message:
Hey everyone,
Thank you so much for your support,i wish i was a full english spoken and express myself better here.
I am looking for a therapist,i am also getting off,slowly of neurontin,but i am feeling nauseous,like flu symptoms and very fatigued.
I haven't mentioned that i am going through early menopause,and i am on HRT,i don't know if this exarberates my tms symptoms.
@Carolyn please keep posting here your story helps so much to me,i just can't believe that a year ago i was runnin g 6 miles everyday except on weekends and now i am laying on this sofa with this stupid pain.
@Wavy Soul,please you haven't said enough,every person that has gone trough the same pain and has recovered helps so much when post their succes,i know Hikegirl and all the peolple that suffer same pain appreciate your encouragment and support.again pleas eforgive my english ughh this is another thing that makes me mad,!!! this language barrier..but i perfectly can read it so please don't stop posting here!
Lara
Reply author: lara
Replied on: 03/29/2012 06:23:38
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
When I was struggling with this, in the early 90s, I was married to someone I didn't want to ****. I couldn't really face this fact, and I had all these symptoms very very intensely. I was doing therapy on the basis that I believed it was my subconscious stuff. I went to a zillion docs, straight and alternate, all of whom had a theory, many of whom offered me surgery, all of whom cost me an arm and a leg and almost other organs!
Not long after my marriage ended, I went home for a high school reunion and hooked up with my high school boyfriend. No pain! Aha!
Of course, all kinds of other symptoms now arose. It's a kind of physical miracle what the flesh can design to keep us busy and not present with our exquisite existential agony (which changes into ecstasy when fully experienced and unresisted).
Again, there is also very good TMS advice focused on this issue by Abigail Stedley, who recovered from this issue. Although someone rightly said above that TMS is TMS, it is helpful to hear from someone who had a successful TMS recovery from a symptom that you are struggling with.
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Lol i should give it a try!
I woke up with a good sense of humor today
Have everybody a wonderful day!
Lara
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