| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 17:04:18
There is a new book that will interest many users of this forum. Let me state immediately that I am the author of the book BUT (a) all profits (one dollar per book) are used to support my travel to teach other doctors and (b) the book has been endorsed by leading medical school professors who called it "wonderful" (Yale), "truly remarkable" (UNC Chapel Hill), "extremely valuable" (UC Berkeley) and a "spectacular accomplishment" (Oregon HSU). The title is They Can't Find Anything Wrong and it consists primarily of 4 dozen stories about patients I have helped to find the hidden stresses that were making them physically ill. Once found, effective treatment was nearly always possible. Some of the hidden stresses are prolonged effects of a dysfunctional childhood family, caring for others to the exclusion of yourself and less usual manifestations of depression, post-traumatic stress and anxiety disorders. There is more information at www . stressillness . com. I hope it helps you. David Clarke, MD; Clinical Assistant Professor of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 12:33:52
[quote]Originally posted by golden_girl
Dr Clarke, I forgot to ask, if I may - what kind of counselling do you refer your patients for? I'm assuming not CBT, so would it be conventional talk therapy, or psychoanalysis or..?
I don't refer to specific Mental Health clinicians. I recommend my patients contact a few mental health professionals, describe the issues they are struggling with and inquire about the practitioner's interest & expertise in that area. It is essential that you feel a personal compatibility with a therapist. Having said that, my experience has led to a bias away from psychoanalysis, away from CBT (though this is effective for some anxiety disorders) and toward those who understand the long-term impact of childhood stresses. |
| golden_girl |
Posted - 12/15/2007 : 07:16:40
Dr Clarke, I forgot to ask, if I may - what kind of counselling do you refer your patients for? I'm assuming not CBT, so would it be conventional talk therapy, or psychoanalysis or..?
"F.E.A.R.
Forgive Everyone And Remember
For Everything A Reason"
Ian Brown |
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 16:53:38
I am grateful for the supportive posts. Having over 7000 courageous patients share the most difficult details of their lives has enabled me to understand this condition in a lot of depth. Almost the first thing I learned was that stress illness (my term for TMS) is NOT in someone's head. The symptoms are just as real as those caused by any other disease such as ulcers, gallstones and inflamed bowels (which I also diagnose and treat regularly). I also agree with Golden Girl that depression and anxiety usually (though not always) result from other stresses. They also tend to make symptoms worse when they occur.
I appreciate seeing the reactions from those who read my book. Your ideas help enormously in my communication with the public. |
| painintheneck |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 22:29:20
I'm anxiously awaiting the book but Holiday shipping is making things slower than normal darn it. Sounds like it will be worth the read.
I know some of my symptoms are directly related to stresses and trauma's I have still yet find a way to feel like I have gotten through and I welcome any help to make changes. |
| golden_girl |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 21:05:05
I just wanted to second what Allan said - for example, Dr Clarke's book is a much easier read than Sarno books. The reservoir of rage can be a difficult thing to accept - stress illness makes it much more comprehensible.
I don't agree however, that depression and anxiety are causes of physical problems (although one may come before a physical problem as it did in my case) I believe they're symptoms of the same stresses.
Even though in the book it seems that a lot of the case stories had an almost immediate cessation of their problems on writing a letter to their parents, or realising that specific stresses were causing their physical problems - it certainly gives hope to those who are suffering when 'They Can't Find Anything Wrong'.
I read your book, Dr Clarke, and I wish I had a doctor like you 
ps I think it's wonderful that you live in Happy Valley 
"F.E.A.R.
Forgive Everyone And Remember
For Everything A Reason"
Ian Brown |
| Allan |
Posted - 12/13/2007 : 18:51:34
Dr. Clarke's reply, "It is common for me to treat someone with counseling alone," tells a lot about his different (and successful) approach to resolving pain.
The forum is full of posts describing partial but incomplete progress and the well known problem of "the pain comes back."
It appears that Dr. Sarno's "knowledge is the penicillin" proposal is not enougth. It may solve the problem in some cases but not all.
Dr. Clarke maintains that the emotions that create the stress must be uncovered. Sometimes this is sufficient as illustrated in his case studies, but sometimees further action is required. Some of his actions are very creative but nevertheless effective. This is an excellent book for understanding the complete process to resolving TMS pain. His desire is that it be a self help book.
Dr. Clarke has been successful in treating patients with stress illness at the rate of 400 per year for 20 years.
In his chapter in The Divided Mind, Dr. Sopher is saddened in that most of his patients (80%) reject the Dr. Sarno theory. Any of us who have tried to spread the word run into the "It's not in my head" response. Dr. Clarke avoids all this. He call it stress illness, something most patients can all relate to and understand. From there he takes a patient history to uncover the emotions. If necessary, he recommends action. The case histories are facinating.
This book is a treat. It is a page turner. It is also one of the most helpful books on the subject of TMS. I predict that it will becomd a classic.
Allan
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| Dr Dave |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 14:18:23
I neglected to respond to a few other posts.
For LA Kevin: Full name is David Clarke, MD and I'm a clinical assistant professor of Gastroenterology at Oregon Health & Science University with a private practice in Portland, OR. More details at www.stressillness.com
Also, for Skizzik, who wanted to know if I found a correlation between putting someone on a antidepressant only to have them return weeks or months later w/ (pick your joint) pain, or gastro problems. My answer is that if you don't find and relieve the hidden stresses in your life then it is likely that your symptoms will relapse even if they responded to medication. Also, if your symptoms are caused by a neurotransmitter deficiency (causing anxiety or depression) then that deficiency can return months or years after successful treatment with medication. It is rare for me to treat someone with medication alone. It is common for me to treat someone with counseling alone. |
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 14:06:01
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that?
Hello Maryalma,
Let me add my support to you in your struggle. Skizzik's post summarizes my key ideas for finding the place where a person's emotional reaction to child abuse can be found. Once found, those emotions can be expressed verbally (written or spoken) and that has provided considerable relief to many of my patients (though it is by no means an easy process). Other patients are simply not ready for that step and need continued work with their therapist until enough healing has occurred. Check with your therapist for advice about all this.
To respond to other posts, with respect to anxiety and depression, research indicates that counseling and medication are about equally effective and combining the two may be even better. My recommendation about treatment for individual patients is strongly influenced by their personal preference after they hear risks and benefits. Many patients successfully taper medication to zero after 6-12 months but may experience a relapse months or years later.
With regard to video/audio, I plan to produce these eventually but I have been very busy with lectures, broadcast interviews, my day job and my family so it won't be in the near future. |
| mk6283 |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 12:15:42
I think pathological anxiety CAN definitely be a TMS equivalent as I have experienced the type of sudden anxiety shift with symptom transition that Dr. Sarno describes in some of his case studies. However, I think depression is a bit trickier. I do think that stress is highly contributory to the development, precipitation, and maintenance of depression, but I think the mechanisms are a little different.
I think the best way to understand the connection between mental stress and depression is to study the work of Dr. Martin Seligman. I think his theory of "learned helplessness" is very interesting and practical for treatment of the majority (uninherited variety) of depression patients. His national bestseller "Learned Optimism" outlines how one can approach treatment for such stress-induced depression.
Best,
MK |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 08:29:05
Hello Dr. Dave,
I've been a member here for a while and never heard your name or profession. My memory is foggy sometimes, I'm better at faces not names.Glad to see a MD here who knows a thing or three.
Thanks for your work, I'll check out your book and website.
Oh and I forgot to ask if you might transfer your work to audio CD's? I know it's a large task but maybe in the future? And what about "Seminars" on YouTube or Google video, ever thought of that as a possibility?
----------------------------
"It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment." Armchairlinguist(?) |
| fup |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 05:51:18
Scott Brady also feels comfortable prescribing antidepressants. Both he and Dave Clarke see depression and/or anxiety as a chemical imbalance, not as a TMS equivelent, which may hold back progress (Scott) or may even be the thing creating most of the stress in the first place (Dave).
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| skizzik |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 19:11:05
quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that?
Hopefully Dr. Dave checks back in to answer your post. I'm so sorry for your past Mary.
In case he does'nt come back:
He does have excellent suggestions for getting in touch w/ your emotions.
For instance, observe some kid who resembles you as a child the next time youre near a school yard or a b-day party or something, and imagine that child going thru what you went thru.
How bad would you feel for that child? what advice/support would you give him/her?
I think he even said to write a letter to that child (that you would never give to them) pouring out your empathy for them. Letting them know that whats happening to them is not their fault...etc..
Then you would write letters to those who abused you (w/ no intention of mailing it to them, although he's had patients who did that on a rare occasion. He did'nt imply that was better or worse.) and let them know how they hurt you.
There are several stories in there how patients did these things and rtn'd for the 30 day checkup improved or symptom free.
BTW, as Dr. Dave has found thru his experiences the true cause of many symptoms and the cure thereof; He seems still a bit quick to dole out the anti-depressents to the anxiety/depressed patients.
I'm not sure he sees anxiety/depression as an equivalent as something like gastrointestinal which he reccomends the patient journal out their emotions rather than letting them attack their intestines.
He put many on the anti-depressents w/ good results, but never mentioned if/when he weened people off of them.
Sarno said when someone gets a TMS equivalent like depression and has been successfully treated w/ an antidepressent, the symptom imparative will pop up elsewhere since the "cause" is still there.
If Dr. Dave is still here, I'd like to know if you found a correlation between putting someone on a antidepressent only to have them return weeks or months later w/ (pick your joint) pain, or gastro problems? |
| marytabby |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 15:41:00
Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that? |
| MAbbott |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 21:14:35
I read this book and really enjoyed it and benefited from it. I think anyone who thinks they have a stress induced physical ailment should read it. The suggestions and exercises really challenge you to dig in there and find what is going on. My only "criticism" is that all the case histories, which make for fascinating reading, seem to be very neat and tidy. That is, the person has one or two complaints, discovers the thread of tension in their life that causes the problems and, voila, problem solved. In reality, I think people who are dealing with deeply buried issues from childhood have many complexities and many layers of physical manifestations.
I would also recommend another book, Dr. Schechter's journal as a way to develop a habit of writing on a daily basis.
Mabbott |
| K2toK9 |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 17:58:58
Dr. Dave,
I have just ordered your book and I will let you know how it goes once I receive it and read it.
K2toK9 |
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 12/02/2007 : 12:37:25
quote:
Originally posted by curingCFS
Dr. Dave,
Might you have a workbook/cd/dvd in the works? Many people find varied media helpful.
Thanks,
Linda
I have devoted all my efforts so far to the book "They Can't Find Anything Wrong!" but I like the idea of turning one of my public workshops into a DVD and I will be exploring that in the next few years. Thank you.
|
| Dr Dave |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 22:43:57
Hello Everyone,
Many thanks for all the supportive posts. What you are writing about my book is completely in sync with what I hear from my patients and from physicians.
For Cat who is working on a book, I highly recommend NonFiction Book Proposals by Elizabeth Lyon and On Writing Well by William Zinsser to introduce you to the book publishing world. I began writing in the winter of 2003 and my book went through 36 drafts (I also hired a professional editor) so it is not an easy process but being able to help patients I will never see in person makes it all worthwhile.
I also agree that the more you write about (or speak into a recording device about) your buried emotions, the less those emotions will need to express themselves through your body in the form of symptoms. The difficulty is in finding those emotions and the stories in my book are designed to help you do that.
My best wishes to you all.
Dave Clarke
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| skizzik |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 17:02:00
quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
Originally posted by skizzik: Dr. Dave and Brady are more in the "logic" camp "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body.
Skizzik, I really like the way you put that: "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body. I'm writing that phrase in my journal so I can look at it every day. Nice post.
cool thanx |
| Littlebird |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 14:25:12
Originally posted by skizzik: Dr. Dave and Brady are more in the "logic" camp "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body.
Skizzik, I really like the way you put that: "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body. I'm writing that phrase in my journal so I can look at it every day. Nice post.
|
| curingCFS |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 06:06:34
Dr. Dave,
Might you have a workbook/cd/dvd in the works? Many people find varied media helpful.
Thanks,
Linda |
