| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2007 : 17:04:18
|
| There is a new book that will interest many users of this forum. Let me state immediately that I am the author of the book BUT (a) all profits (one dollar per book) are used to support my travel to teach other doctors and (b) the book has been endorsed by leading medical school professors who called it "wonderful" (Yale), "truly remarkable" (UNC Chapel Hill), "extremely valuable" (UC Berkeley) and a "spectacular accomplishment" (Oregon HSU). The title is They Can't Find Anything Wrong and it consists primarily of 4 dozen stories about patients I have helped to find the hidden stresses that were making them physically ill. Once found, effective treatment was nearly always possible. Some of the hidden stresses are prolonged effects of a dysfunctional childhood family, caring for others to the exclusion of yourself and less usual manifestations of depression, post-traumatic stress and anxiety disorders. There is more information at www . stressillness . com. I hope it helps you. David Clarke, MD; Clinical Assistant Professor of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University. |
|
|
carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 20:14:15
|
Hi Dr. Dave,
I checked out the website. Can you share with us whether or not you have communicated with Dr. Sarno? It sounds like your work is complementary in a number of ways.
Also, I am curious as to how you created the 5 categories of stress. Particularly the distinction between anxiety and depression, which I would tend to lump together when I think of my own recovery from TMS.
|
Edited by - carbar on 11/07/2007 20:16:02 |
 |
|
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 09:04:27
|
Hello Carbar,
Dr Sarno and I agree on most issues but he wrote that he was too busy with his latest book to look at my manuscript earlier this year. Our biggest difference is that I try to dig deeper to find the hidden sources of stress-related illness, particularly in people who experienced difficulties as children. These are people who would not want an innocent child to experience what they did growing up.
I classify stresses into five general groups because this is what I have seen in over 7000 patients during the last 25 years but there is much overlap and interaction between the groups. Anxiety and depression are two of the groups and they often occur together but not always. Most of my patients find it easier to comprehend these issues when they are discussed individually. Thanks for your interest.
Dave Clarke |
|
|
|
Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 09:36:48
|
| Can't get to the website - says I'm not authorized. ? Thanks for the info. |
|
|
|
painintheneck
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 10:01:58
|
| Michelle I got the same msg so I typed the site into the browser and it went there. |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 10:04:45
|
I have found that in my case, anxiety and depression are 'cover' symptoms that occur as a result of sources of stress, not sources of stress themselves (except in the indirect sense that anything, including pain, that disrupts one's life is also a source of stress). I am curious why you classify these differently, as sources of stress.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
|
|
|
painintheneck
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 10:10:38
|
Dr. Dave does this book contain a clear treatment plan? I have found with some books they seem to be clear in the area of diagnosis but you are still left searching for a full plan of treatment.
I know I have mental issues to deal with and I know they cause a lot of my physical symptoms. Heck I AM all 5 types of stress. I've just never been able to really get into it all and make any headway. I am even in counseling and it seems to be taking far too long to make any progress. |
|
|
|
Jeff4460
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 11:26:51
|
| I get it......The Dave Clarke 5! |
|
|
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 11:41:59
|
Thank you all for your posts, especially the Dave Clarke 5 (for the younger generation, this was a rock band that was contemporary with the Beatles).
I classify anxiety and depression separately because they are different diseases. However, it is true that they often occur together and that either may be the result of stress or a cause of stress.
My book has many treatment suggestions, most of which depend on first finding and understanding the specific type of stress that is affecting the person. Once we uncover the hidden stress and reveal its full impact, then you can understand the benefits of the treatment. I could list the treatments here but they would sound rather bland and "old hat" until they were coupled with understanding their effectiveness for a particular stress. The treatments were developed using trial and error with thousands of people. Dave Clarke |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 13:09:35
|
I think the distinctions made by Dr. Sarno regarding depression and anxiety as TMS equivalents are very different than what is said in this book. One can search the book on Amazon and see that the belief here is that antidepressants do indeed treat the underlying cause- a reiteration of the widespread belief that a shortage of serotonin is responsible for depression. Sarno believes, as does the TMS doctor I recently visited, that reduced serotonin levels are the result of depression and when the underlying issues (rage) are recognized and addressed, the depression will abate along with any physical symptoms.
This has always been a puzzling question for me- I could never understand why one's serotonin level should "dip" apropros of nothing. It has always made more sense that one's serotonin lessens as the result of depression which is caused by stress of one type or another.
Is any of this different than the standard line given in commercials for anti-depressants- i.e.- depression hurts?
Also, many here have indeed been told by doctors that something is wrong- its just that the "something" like herniated discs etc- are apparently not the pain generators. The fault for this lies with the medical professionals, not the person seeking relief for unexplained symptoms. |
Edited by - lidge on 11/08/2007 14:41:02 |
|
|
|
ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 20:29:58
|
Dr. Dave, We recently had a discussion of your book on another thread which you can find here:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4089
I had just bought and read your book, which I found a good addition to the subject of TMS (and I emailed you), and someone else had just seen you on TV, which started the discussion.
Welcome to the forum!
Ralph |
|
|
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 05:07:39
|
| My experience supports the post by Lidge that depression and anxiety are commonly a result of other stresses. In my book I use stories about my patients to explore those stresses in detail and show how they can be overcome, often with no need for medication. Some people, however, experience a decrease in their neurotransmitters (serotonin etc) for no obvious reason, perhaps analogous to someone who no longer produces sufficient insulin and therefore becomes diabetic. |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 05:27:40
|
Dr. Dave-
As someone familiar with Sarno's work and this website, is it your impression that the physical pain (or equivalent symptoms) experienced by TMS patients are a result of lowered serotonin levels-regardless of whether that lowered serotonin is caused by stress or "just happens" as in diabetes? In other words, do you think the physical pain of TMS is really no different than that experienced by those seen in commercials for anti-depressants? i.e.-depression hurts?
The "vague" aches and pains of depression are often spoken of. There is nothing "vague" about most of the symptoms of TMS patients. They are "unusually" severe. Do you think its just a matter of degree?
Are TMS patients just "clinically depressed" but somehow the symptomology is all rolled up into physical pain? |
|
|
|
JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 07:44:20
|
Lidge,
How did your visit with the TMS doc go? |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 08:25:40
|
John-
I looked to see if you had an email to reply about the TMS doctor-
Bottom line, he said I have TMS. I think just hearing my life history was more than enough to point him in that direction. I went to his TMS lecture that evening.
Just wish I was one of those that felt some relief immediately! I can tell you more but don't want to takeover Dr. Dave's thread! |
|
|
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 08:41:17
|
Lidge,
If TMS symptoms (I prefer the term stress illness which is a close synonym) were all due to low serotonin then we could substantially relieve them with SSRI antidepressants. That has not been my experience.
There are, however, a few patients who tend to have milder/vaguer symptoms who do improve significantly with anti-depressants and also some patients with more severe symptoms who get partial relief from anti-depressants. In general, though, the more severe the symptoms (and some of my patients have been hospitalized or even had surgery) the less likely anti-depressants will help. Serotonin deficiency is therefore only part of the problem and only in some patients. Dave Clarke |
|
|
|
2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 09:26:53
|
Dr. Dave,
What do you believe to be the cause of severe anxiety. I realize that we can treat the symptoms with mediciation, but unless we treat the root cause, than symptoms will still exist or just manifest themselves in another form.
From my experience this is something I've experienced sinc early childhood. I am beginning to learn more abou heavy metal toxicity, and there seems to be a very valid point there, with the rise in autism, child asthma, ADD, and a host of other illnesses. Just wanted to know how you felt about anxiety. |
|
|
|
AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 10:20:45
|
Great thread, I look forward to reading the book. I thought I would comment based on my own personal experience with mild depression and recent general anxiety. I have about a dozen physical symptoms that really bother me, and I have come to believe that probably half are due to TMS, and the others have a significant TMS component. The implication of these symptoms causes me great distress, and tends to push me toward depression, and more recently in my life, that wonderful bonus add on feature: anxiety.
What I have observed in my case, over the years, is that an occasional and very low dose SSRI helps me overcome the emotional paralysis of insomnia and depression, and the suffering caused by anxiety. This allows me to more effectively work on the root cause of the real issues. This puts it in the category like a pain killer. It treats symptom but is nevertheless very useful.
But I can say the SSRI absolutely does not lessen or eliminate the physical symptoms in my case. It simply helps interrupt the cycle of terribly unhealthy emotional/serotonin response, allowing me to stay on my feet, and deal with the underlying root causes. In that sense this medication is a godsend.
So from my personal viewpoint, the repeated stress and trauma of painful life events seems to wear down the psyche over time, and the reduction of serotonin may be a symptom of that, not the other way around. As the serotonin drops, the suffering increases, and one is less able to function well. It's a vicious cycle that can sustain itself, and for some reason some of us are more susceptible to this problem while others appear to be more resilient. So I have come to believe that reduced serotonin levels can be symptomatic of unhealthy response to life events. And this can make one genuinely very ill, and even compound physical health problems. The SSRI is one way to help break or prevent this response, with the ultimate goal being to eventually learn to change the response become medication free as much as possible. Maybe there are other effective means to break the cycle, but I have yet to find one, and I continue to try with an open mind.
I have had no luck with SSRI treating TMS symptoms. It only seems to lift me out of the secondary depression and anxiety "equivalents", which is still very helpful, at least for the short term anyway.
|
|
|
|
EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 11:00:51
|
Dr. Dave, Based on what you are saying, could menopause be a cause of my depression? I have read that lower estrogen can lead to lower serotonin. My mood improves feel when I take estrogen, but even with low doses I get severe side effects. So can't take it. I have no physical aches and pains. Did not have any depression before menopause.
However, 9/11 occured just before I went into menopause and I have often thought it could be at the root of this. It really affected me. Don't know...
What do you think?? |
|
|
|
Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 09:57:09
|
Hello all. Apologies for the delay in responding. I just concluded a national lecture tour and it was busy. For 2scoops, I don't know the cause of severe anxiety but life experiences and neurotransmitter imbalances are likely key elements that will vary in their relative contributions for different individuals. I haven't seen solid research support for other causes. For EileenTM, I have certainly seen patients where menopause coincides with onset or worsening of symptoms of depression but I have not reviewed the published studies in that area.
As much as we would all like to know the mechanism that causes these afflictions, for now we are left with trying the treatments we have (counseling and medication) and hoping for the best. I have tried, in my book, to provide examples of life experiences that might surprise you in how they contribute to these conditions. Insight into these is often helpful. |
|
|
|
EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 12:23:11
|
Dr. Dave, Thanks for your response. I have ordered your book and look forward to reading it. Glad you are out there spreading the word about stress and illness.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
New Book
