| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2007 : 07:19:52
|
Hello,
I have read all of Dr. Sarno's books, and I have thought about the Mickle, Eaton reverse therapy.
Following Dr. Sarno's advice is FREE therapy and the reverse therapy is of course costly.
What I am scared of--since this is a human condition and symptom imperative is at work--is that I'll get rid of my disabling fatigue (which is absoultly harmless) and replace it with something worse and permanent. Can anyone relate?
Also the Freedom from Fibromylgia book does say the fatigue is a little bit slower to respond or resolve completely--at least thats what I remember, I don't have the book right now. Also I wonder if the pain syndrome people have the underlying rage, yet the fatigue folks have some underlying terror instead? The reverse therapy from what free information I can find is more about responding to the symptoms as to what it might be trying to say--and it is the hypothalmus that is the cause and it is a fight or flight response a fear response not so much an underlying rage sort of thing.
I could feel a lot more comfortable with this if there was a CFS book written.
I've read many posts on this fine board. I was hoping to dialogue here about CFS in particular and what path to take.
Thank you,
Linda
|
|
|
stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 10:20:09
|
Hi Linda;
I dont have experience with CFS, but ill respond to your 'relate' question, cause i totally can relate. I worry that my body will self-destruct on me because each time i defeat some symptom, another more insidious one pops up. The solution that i see is that if you recognize how powerful the psychological influence is, that will protect you from whatever challenge you face. Even trauma or disease can be influenced by positive thought.
I dont know anything about reverse therapy, but the bottom line is that there is a psychosomatic origin. No need to chose therapies, just recognize the origin and pursue it that way. And, of course, you have nothing to lose with free info! |
 |
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 16:00:24
|
Thank you stanfr,
Yup no money to lose persuing this, but yeah like you said you experience one set of symptoms after another and that is the thing that has me scared.
It doesn't sound like the whole solution if you gotta keep working on it and working on it. The symptoms are like corks on the water, as it submerges it pops up elsewhere.
I'm desperate enough to want to get better with this, yet cautious enough to not want to end up in an even worse situation.
Has there been anyone here that got rid of disabling fatigue with this method?
Thank you,
Linda |
|
|
|
skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 17:07:28
|
I suffered from disabling fatigue earlier this year. For a long time.
I'm down to dizzy spells a few times a week that I can almost predict based on my situation.
I've been thru hell and back w/ stress this past year, and am still recovering.
As a utility serviceman I recall talking to customers in my so called "fake mode" where I could pretend I was normal and pray I did'nt pass out in front of them.
Part of the job entails going down the street to trouble shoot the lines and when I'd get out of the house I'd get into the truck, drive down the street and go into my "slump" where I'd put my head on the steering wheel and just lay there lifeless.
I't would be useless because I would'nt be anymore refreshed and would have to push on thru the day.
I recall being scared sh-tless when they told me I'd have to go to a training class. Oh no, I could'nt lay my head down anywhere. I sat thru that class, holding my head up as hard as I could. When called upon, I had to force myself to talk and look normal. At break and lunch I'd run out to my car and read Sarno's take on CFS over and over in MBP hoping it would sink in. And slump for a bit. Life was pure hell, and I got 3 little kids to take care of when I got home.
The stress of almost being fired the year b4, and the thought that I screwed up my back permanently was overwhelming. As well as many many other personal problems I had.
Also, I'm on probabtion at work, If I was caught slumping over my steering wheel when I s/b working, I was a goner from a solid Union job, and How would I provide for my family?
I used to classify myself as 20% ability where I'd go into "fake mode" in front of others, and 80% where I'd be so happy I could function to some degree, and could even journal.
I've done all the work thats mentioned here, and w/ time, it (I'm assuming it was CFS) has faded, and baring the back pain (which has improved) and moving on has been hell, but I'm much better now.
I don't have a good answer for you, and hate talking about it because CFS is pure hell and I don't ever want it back. I hope the best for you, and hope you can relate to what I went thru for your recovery.
If you told me about CFS 10 years ago, I'd laugh. But It has to be what I went thru and is no f-ing joke. |
Edited by - skizzik on 11/12/2007 17:14:24 |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 18:28:39
|
Maybe I'm confused, but I thought that the Freedom From Fibromyalgia was a CFS book -- Fibro/CFS are equivalent terms, no? So there is a book, which you've read.
If you are truly concerned about having ongoing symptom imperative, and at all able to come up with the resources, insight-based psychotherapy (of some type) is probably worth the expense. Being disabled for the long term is a lot more expensive than paying for therapy for a while.
Fibro/CFS is severe TMS and more people with this form need therapy than is average for TMS.
Some people have said that they think repressed anxiety is a cause of TMS, but my experience has been that anxiety is itself a cover for repressed rage.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 11/12/2007 18:57:49 |
|
|
|
JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 20:58:40
|
| Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibro are somewhat similar but 2 distincts disorders. |
|
|
|
pericakralj
77 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 05:32:14
|
curingCFS, about 5 years ago i had CFS and it was bad.At that time i didnt know about Sarno and TMS,but i did all exsames at all doctors and they coudnt find nothing.So i realised it is psychomatic.I started to see therapist.In a couple off weeks it vas over,but another symptome came,but in time i beat them all.I remeber that he told me when i am tired and dizzy to go for a run.It was very very very hard but i did that every day,and it helped a lot.
SO IT DEFINETLY CAN BE CURED.
As for your fear about new symptom,its your decision.If you want to fight and get symptom free(wich is totaly posible)you must lose that fear.It may take a while but in the end your life will be much nicer then it is now.But if you want to spend all your life with CFS and fear of something new ,you just sit and do nothing.AGAIN, JUST YOUR DECISION.
p.s. sorry about my english.
|
|
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 06:10:52
|
Skizzik, thank you for your description of the sort of fatigue and stress you had/have and how you were able to improve yourself by using Dr. Sarno's books. You have given me hope.
armchairlinguist, if I could get even somewhat better by using the do it yourself method then I could likely work part time just to pay for therapy if I didn't get all the way well. Otherwise our family income is very tight.
pericakralj, your english is just fine, I understand what you are saying and thank you for letting me know that you beat it without even the whole Dr. Sarno program!
I guess I should say where my fear of the symptom imperative arose. Several months ago I was diagnosed with depression. Thankfully the medication worked. This was a stare death in the face frightening monster sort of thing. All these years with CFS=TMS I never got seriously depressed. Depression can definately be a terminal illness. I started the downward spiral as I was finally able to exercise more and more and was feeling better. I guess that CFS was not taking up the symptoms necessary and so symptom imperative induced depression. So I know that as bad as CFS is things can get much much worse. But because of depression I read a gazillion books. And I came to Sarno because when I was at my worst I paced and paced pulling at my hands, face contorted in agony--but KEY is that I was able to pace for hours. Even in my inability to "think" I realized that I could NEVER walk that long before---very, very disabled from the CFS=TMS. So yeah, looking at psychosomatic--yet a very raw fear of that dang symptom imperative.
It is helpful to write and read here, for I need a bit of confidence hearing others stories/advice.
Believe me, I get rid of CFS, even only 80-90% I will dedicate a few hours every week to informing others--such a goodist.
Thanks,
Linda |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 07:19:30
|
Do NOT let the face of the beast (depression) scare you. Fear gives it power. Staring it in the face diminishes it. It is indeed a TMS equivalent, and a powerful one. A particular favorite of my brain, along with anxiety, stomach problems, and a chronic "injury" just to keep things fun.
Having been no stranger to depression, even I was taken by surprise back in the mid nineties when I got it bad. I was diagnosed with clinical depression and put on prozac. I was seeing both a psychologist and a psychiatrist, but their entire focus was on figuring out the best drug to put me on. The prozac didn't stop the new symptom: anxiety attacks. Lucky for me, they were clearly that, unlike those scary heart attacky kind of anxiety attacks that some people get. Mine were stomach flipflops, extreme agitation, weeping, hand wringing, pacing. My psychiatrist decided I was bipolar and wanted to put me on lithium. That was the last straw for me. I knew it was all stress-related and I made a conscious decision to believe that my conscious mind's ability to contribute to my health and wellbeing was AT LEAST as strong as whatever autonomic madman was currently running my life (this would have been so much easier then if I had only known about TMS).
I systematically set out with a plan to "fix" myself. It was a long, painful journey into the forest to face the demons. I took myself off prozac and went through a nasty backlash effect before returning to some level of equilibrium. I removed some life stress and self stress that was completely overwhelming me. I faced some fears and anger and disappointment and survived. Did I fix myself? No way. Long way to go. But I have seen the face of the beast, and now I know that the TMS PAC funds the beast. It lurks, and it occasionally reaches out and grabs me, but I am much faster now at going from petrified immobility to fighting back, because I KNOW, and knowledge is power. |
|
|
|
lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 15:09:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by mamaboulet
The prozac didn't stop the new symptom: anxiety attacks. Lucky for me, they were clearly that, unlike those scary heart attacky kind of anxiety attacks that some people get. Mine were stomach flipflops, extreme agitation, weeping, hand wringing, pacing. My psychiatrist decided I was bipolar and wanted to put me on lithium. .
Not at all surprised that the prozac didn't stop the anxiety attacks-it probably caused them. Akithesia (nervousness, pacing, agitation)is a well known side effects of SSRIs, usually counteracted with a benzo. Amazing that your shrink took this as bipolar- he created the problem then misdiagnosed it. |
|
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2007 : 06:03:40
|
Thank you for that mamaboulet. Courage is called for hmmmm?
Well, I'm gonna buy the Sarno books and Selfridge--instead of library check outs, get the whole process straight and start doing it.
Selfridge's book was so complicated to me, whereas Sarno's is straight forward as to what to do. But Selfridge really speaks to the Severe form of TMS which would be what I have. Maybe I'll do a seperate post on that.
Thanks everyone for the responses.
Linda |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2007 : 06:26:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by curingCFS
Thank you for that mamaboulet. Courage is called for hmmmm?
Well, I'm gonna buy the Sarno books and Selfridge--instead of library check outs, get the whole process straight and start doing it.
Selfridge's book was so complicated to me, whereas Sarno's is straight forward as to what to do. But Selfridge really speaks to the Severe form of TMS which would be what I have. Maybe I'll do a seperate post on that.
Thanks everyone for the responses.
Linda
Well, if not courage, maybe fortitude. Pack a lunch. You'll need it. Luckily, we are not alone, though the Beast will try to tell you that you are. |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2007 : 06:29:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
quote:
Originally posted by mamaboulet
The prozac didn't stop the new symptom: anxiety attacks. Lucky for me, they were clearly that, unlike those scary heart attacky kind of anxiety attacks that some people get. Mine were stomach flipflops, extreme agitation, weeping, hand wringing, pacing. My psychiatrist decided I was bipolar and wanted to put me on lithium. .
Not at all surprised that the prozac didn't stop the anxiety attacks-it probably caused them. Akithesia (nervousness, pacing, agitation)is a well known side effects of SSRIs, usually counteracted with a benzo. Amazing that your shrink took this as bipolar- he created the problem then misdiagnosed it.
The prozac may have triggered them (I'm extremely anti-prozac now), but they continued for a year past when I quit the meds. They still pop up when I'm having a lot of anxiety, but in less extreme form and I can talk myself down now. |
|
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 07:02:17
|
I thought this would be the best place for me to post this.
Well, it has been a month of doing the work.
Yesterday I went out and applied for a job! I thought that I could maybe handle a lunch shift waitress job at a fine dining place. I forgot that you need to have references to write down, and exact job history--but the places I worked dont exist anymore! Anyways I was interviewed by the manager who was 20 something and size one and she opened my application and nearly shouted "You haven't worked in 20 years?"
Seriously this is the first time I felt like maybe I'm old. And when I looked at the customers, the "beautiful people" I envied and hated them. And when I left, there was a druggie asking me if he could talk with me, he was shaking and filthy and a little scary and the outdoor wealthy eaters at the restaurant were a mere 6 feet away.
Then last night WHOOMPH, energy tanked, felt my nose close and sometimes run like I'm getting a cold and I couldn't keep my eyes open from around 6:30 until I allowed myself to go to bed at 9:00. This morning also depressive symptoms (but no such cold at all humph!).
So I journaled and am feeling better.
Should I keep pushing through to get a waitress job or should I hang back and dedicate more time to the Sarno work? I'm exercising pretty good these days to build strength and energy. But I wanted your opinion. Should I celebrate that I got rid of the "cold" and the "fatigue" and even the depressive feelings and keep going, or is it the time to pull back?
I of course don't know for sure if I can work until I get started or have nothing but near normal days to prove to me that I can.
What do you all think?
Linda
|
|
|
|
skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 08:58:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by curingCFS
Then last night WHOOMPH, energy tanked,
What do you all think?
Linda
all I know, is that WHOOMPH feeling is horribly unpleasent. It's like someone dimmed the lights and i could'nt function.
It was like being high, w/ out the euphoria.
When did it go? I don't know, it has'nt bothered me. Not to that horrible degree that it was. I get malaise still in certain situations, but thats less and less compared to even a month ago.
The fact that the mind can do this is unbelievable. I wish I knew what to tell you.
You've been w/ CFS for so long. I think you need to make some daily changes in regards to how you think. Since 90% of the thoughts you had today are the thoughts you had yesterday, the process takes time.
I would start w/ changing your moniker. Even though you have the word "curing" in there, you are still giving yourself a daily reminder that you have CFS.
As far as employment, I feel you need to have a white lie handy and avoid explaining CFS like the plaque. If I was your prospective boss the way I thought about CFS 2 years ago you'd never get a call back. Heck, the way I think about CFS now after going thru it, I would'nt hire someone w/ it because they would'nt know how to get rid of it.
And if they did know, the recovery process is too long, and I don't need someone working for me who looks/acts stoned or has their head down on their breaks even when it's a harmless mind body alteration.
If you can fake your way thru it, I'd avoid the CFS talk to the employer. I was able to fake my way, and come home and deal w/ wife and kids and had zero relief 24/7. In a sense, that probably helped because I was forced to keep moving. That mus'tve reinforced the mind/body connection.
Had I had these slumps when I did'nt have the family responsibilities and went home and just layed there, perhaps I'd be on my way to a 5yr run myself of CFS.
Of course this year I can list 2 dozen symptoms I've had that distracted me from the CFS, so it was'nt just CFS I've had to deal w/.
That may have helped.
|
|
|
|
curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 10:03:29
|
Thanks for that skizzik.
Because I'm a woman I can say that I've been a stay at home mom, with a very traditional family. And I'm starting back to work to help my kid pay for college. Should not even be a blink.
I was thinking about the name change too! How do you change it?
I have one year left of college I could finish, I could go to a career school---I don't know what the heck I want for the future. But what I want now is to PROVE to myself that I can earn some money. To me better means earning!
The fact that the mind can do this would have been unbelievable to me until I experienced clinical depression a few months back. My own mind wanted me dead! Now that is power. I didn't want that and I couldn't make myself stop the physical sensations, the thoughts, the pacing. The fact I could pace for hours really put the light on CFS being a condition of my mind. If my mind tried to kill me, couldn't it have fatigued me for decades? And so Sarno could be let in. If you told me this stuff before, I'd have said no way I have a real illness. It really does sound unbelievable until more and more people take the cure and talk about it.
Linda
|
|
|
|
skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 11:34:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by curingCFS
I was thinking about the name change too! How do you change it?
I'd ask "painintheneck" oops   I mean "Dave" |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Sarno/Selfridge scared to try--help
