| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 14:53:57
Hello All,
My name is Zach, and I'm 23 years old. I have had TMS that manifested itself as severe back pain in the past. I currently believe that TMS is causing the pain in my left elbow. Let me relay to you the facts of my current situation.
About 6 weeks ago I fell down the stairs (3 steps) and landed on the tip of my elbow. I had some swelling and a little bruising, but that all disappeared a few days after the accident. I had an x-ray taken that came up negative. Since the accident, the pain has not gotten better at all, it may actually have gotten worse. I went to see an orthopaedist, he said that I strained my tricep, and that rest was all that was required. As you can see, rest has done nothing.
I injured myself about 3 days before beginning a new life, the start of law school. It's funny though, my number one concern was being able to have enough time to weight-train. I obsess over every aspect of working out. I plan my day around my workouts and my eating. And here I am, unable to workout because of a "soft tissue" injury.
Just to give you a little background about me: I put a great amount of pressure on myself as do my parents. I am a perfectionist and nothing is ever good enough. I probably handle stress worse than anyone else on the face of the earth. I am also incredibly inseucre. Anyway, I consider myself a walking TMS timebomb.
I really just want affirmation. Do you guys, in your honest opinion believe that my elbow is the result of TMS? Do you think I should resume training immediately? I feel as if it will never get better unless I go ahead and take that first step and fight through the pain, showing my body that I won't let the pain deter me. I feel as if the pain is a built in excuse in case I can't cut law school. Working out means so much to me.
It doesn't appear that TMS usually manifests itself in elbows. I really just want an honest opnion before I do anything rash (e.g. work out)because I am still scared. I don't want to do permanent damage to my arm.
Thanks so much,
Zach
pain is only temporary |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 11:21:40
Thanks for the response Dave,
No i didn't have an MRI, the orthopod didn't seem to think it was necessary. He prescribed physical therapy and said that it would get better on its own in 4 or so weeks. He prescribed physical therapy but I didn't do it for various reasons. Anyway, that was about 7 weeks ago.
I asked him if I could workout through the pain and he said that he wouldn't recommend it but it would still eventually heal on its own and that most likely i wouldn't hurt it.
After he told me that, the symptoms got much better the next day. I was relieved that it would get better in a relatively short amount of time, but once I realised that i was unable to get physical therapy, the pain got worse and didn't appear to be getting better.
On this past Sunday, I worked out probably the hardest I have since I fell. The TMS pain was pretty bad yesterday so I didn't workout. Instead I spent that time reading over Sarnos books, this page and journaling. The pain today (tuesday) feels much much better. I don't know wheter to attribute it to the day of rest or the journaling.
Sheffield had said that it hurts the worst when swings and misses. That seemed strange to me. I would think it would hurt just as much if not more as when he makes contact since the force required to swing the bat is the same and the follow-through doesn't change. I remember that the Physician told him that it might not get better with surgery and rest and that he couldn't hurt it any worse by playing.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Did they do an MRI? Did the orthopedist say you need surgery, or that it would heal on its own?
Many tendon "injuries" suffered by atheletes are really just normal changes that do not cause pain. A tendon can show up as a small tear on an MRI when in reality it is just normal structural changes in the tendon. I believe there are a lot of unnecessary surgeries in atheletes, especially arthroscopic.
That said, it is of course possible to suffer a real injury that does real physical damage to a tendon, beyond the body's natural ability to heal itself. In those cases surgery may be required. Maybe you should get that MRI and see what it shows. If they still say that you don't need surgery, then you have nothing to lose by treating it as TMS (which is likely is).
Sheffield has such a violent swing that I would not be surprised if his shoulder is truly damaged. Also he has not had a career filled with chronic injuries, and he has no problem playing through the pain (unlike Brown who uses every TMS symptom as an excuse for his performance or inability to get on the field).
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| Dave |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 11:05:16
Did they do an MRI? Did the orthopedist say you need surgery, or that it would heal on its own?
Many tendon "injuries" suffered by atheletes are really just normal changes that do not cause pain. A tendon can show up as a small tear on an MRI when in reality it is just normal structural changes in the tendon. I believe there are a lot of unnecessary surgeries in atheletes, especially arthroscopic.
That said, it is of course possible to suffer a real injury that does real physical damage to a tendon, beyond the body's natural ability to heal itself. In those cases surgery may be required. Maybe you should get that MRI and see what it shows. If they still say that you don't need surgery, then you have nothing to lose by treating it as TMS (which is likely is).
Sheffield has such a violent swing that I would not be surprised if his shoulder is truly damaged. Also he has not had a career filled with chronic injuries, and he has no problem playing through the pain (unlike Brown who uses every TMS symptom as an excuse for his performance or inability to get on the field). |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 10:16:44
Here is what the orthopod said happened.
When I fell on my elbow, I moved my arm so quickly to brace myself that the tendon tore. He equated it to a string or piece of fishing line. It is much harder to break a piece of fishing line when you move it slowly and much easier to break it if you yank it quickly.
This diagnosis just doesn't make sense to me, but I can't seem to get the idea out of my head. How is it possible to move my arm so quickly to do this? I lift heavy weights all the time, how can moving my arm quickly have done so much damage and cause so much pain? My head tells me that this is TMS, but for whatever reason I am scared. I also attribute not being able to understand how such an injury could occur due to the fact that I am not a doctor.
How come athletes always get surgical operations to repair tendons and ligaments?
I saw a thread earlier on Kevin Brown, what about Sheffield? He has been dealing with a shoulder injury for months and months and it hasn't gotten better. Do you think that is TMS as well?
This board is very helpful, but it seems like a lot of you have been dealing with this pain for years, and that kind of depresses me. I can't imagine dealing with this for the rest of my life. I catch myself watching people do things on t.v. with their left arms, and I envy them. |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 20:30:47
I agree, the timing seems almost too good to be true. It's almost too cut and dry, and that is why I am attributing it to coincidence. I am just having trouble accepting it. I know that that is the hardest and most important step, TMS just seems too easy.
quote:
Originally posted by menvert
zahapiro32,
looks like you're not having a great time at it right now...
Pretty much most of what you said in that post says you are still having major trouble accepting TMS.
I assume you're not confusing the pain you get from going up 5 lbs.(the type of pain that will heal in a couple of days)with actual chronic pain?
If you are not mentally capable of pushing through the pain. I would then just do the next best thing which is to lay off just a little(ie go back down to less weight) but don't entirely stop again. At least in my case, that's how it works if I have overdone the typing and created a flareup sometimes I actually lay off for a week... this usually is only as effective as if the next day I just continue typing, but maybe just a little less.
Damn xrays/mri they cause no end of damage to TMS sufferers!!
BTW of all the TMS stories I've read yours does seem the one of the most cut and dry case of having absolutely nothing to do with physical. You bumped your elbow, so what? it is not a reason to get chronic pain! Especially when you happen to mention you would start law school three days after the incident!
Stopping anti-inflammatories is good, they will not help, TMS. Yes, there is healing to be done: healing the way that you think about your elbow pain :)
Anyway, keep at it, don't be discouraged that you may have to backtrack a little bit... I backtracked several times before I got a pretty good handle on TMS. And reading this site continually does help reinforce my knowing(not belief) that TMS is my only injury.
Good luck with it
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| menvert |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 20:12:57
zahapiro32,
looks like you're not having a great time at it right now...
Pretty much most of what you said in that post says you are still having major trouble accepting TMS.
I assume you're not confusing the pain you get from going up 5 lbs.(the type of pain that will heal in a couple of days)with actual chronic pain?
If you are not mentally capable of pushing through the pain. I would then just do the next best thing which is to lay off just a little(ie go back down to less weight) but don't entirely stop again. At least in my case, that's how it works if I have overdone the typing and created a flareup sometimes I actually lay off for a week... this usually is only as effective as if the next day I just continue typing, but maybe just a little less.
Damn xrays/mri they cause no end of damage to TMS sufferers!!
BTW of all the TMS stories I've read yours does seem the one of the most cut and dry case of having absolutely nothing to do with physical. You bumped your elbow, so what? it is not a reason to get chronic pain! Especially when you happen to mention you would start law school three days after the incident!
Stopping anti-inflammatories is good, they will not help, TMS. Yes, there is healing to be done: healing the way that you think about your elbow pain :)
Anyway, keep at it, don't be discouraged that you may have to backtrack a little bit... I backtracked several times before I got a pretty good handle on TMS. And reading this site continually does help reinforce my knowing(not belief) that TMS is my only injury.
Good luck with it |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 16:55:24
Hi All,
I just wanted to give you guys an update. I had been doing really well until the other day. My workouts were going great and without a hitch until yesterday. I went up 5 pounds on my bench press but the pain today is the worst it has been in weeks. It's been two months since i fell, and it hasn't gotten much better at all. I know this doesn't make sense or rather it doesn't adhere to sarno's principals, but I can't get the idea of getting an MRI and possibly surgery out of my head. I know the x-ray showed no broken bones, it's just that it has been so long, and I'm scared. I still worry that I will hurt myself worse. I can't deal with this pain for the rest of my life, it is life consuming. I just want to be normal again.
I know that i have to fully accept the diagnosis for my elbow to get better. I keep thinking that I will get better on its own, regardless of TMS, but I am still afriad. I have stopped taking anti-inflammatories, partially because I found a page about how anti-inflammatories prevent healing. There is the problem, I still think there is healing to be done. I just can't get that out of my head. |
| moose1 |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 22:20:55
TMS is the ultimate opportunist. it's an evil little beast that needs to be beaten down with the truth. if it sees an opening, like a minor injury, it will set up camp and never leave until you realize that it's just a scam to keep you from dealing with and acknowledging all the stress and junk that occurs in your life. unless you have a broken bone, which it sounds like you don't based on the x-ray, or you have recently thrown several hundred pitches at the major league level, my bet is that there's nothing wrong with your elbow.
also, steer clear of orthopaedists unless you really do have a broken bone. in the absence of a real injury for them to expain, they will invariably come up with some musculo-skeletal, arthritis, ligament, tendon disfunction/degeneration load-a-crap diagnosis that will just feed the TMS and make your life more miserable.
good luck.
moose |
| Irish Jimmy |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 20:51:44
Shapiro, I used to weight train like you back when I was coming out of high school. It was my love. The bulk got me the nickname "Big Jimmy", another thing I liked. It was good for my self-esteem. Then I got my first symptoms of TMS, The knee pain started, the back pain, and elbow pain. I stopped lifting figuring I'd hurt myself. The physical therapists had me doing stretches, taking Ibproferin, it was awful.
The one thing I really enjoyed was gone. I was constantly scared I would hurt myself if I went back to any "hard" workouts. As time went on I realized there was more to life then throwing around iron. I had to find a replacement for lifting, that replacement was life, specifically living a balanced one.
Your symptoms sound like TMS, but you have to stop thinking structural and start with the thinking about why TMS is effecting you. Law school is alot of pressure, don't minimize that fact. TMS aside, try balancing your life, if YOU feel this is necessary. Go easy on yourself, I used to feel so guilty about missing workouts or what I ate. Everything in moderation. Good Luck and get a job as a prosecutor, you'll have no guilt..........P.S. since finding out about Sarno I'm back working out, I run, which I never really did, I play competitive flag football and just started Yoga. I do all of this when I have time- no guilt. The pain is still there and shifting like crazy, but I feel I got it on the ropes. Again good luck, go easy. |
| Jim D. |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 14:49:01
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
The steroid was dexamethasone and apparently sits in your system for up to a year - gross! It made me really crazy and emotional - very disturbing drug.
Suz,
Just out of curiosity, I looked up that drug on the Web. What I found on one site was: "Dexamethasone is considered to be a long acting steroid, meaning that a dose lasts about two or two-and-a-half days." It seems very odd that a drug would sit in your system for a year. |
| Jim D. |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 14:34:22
I guess I don't see addiction to exercise as a manifestation of TMS, since TMS involves pain, and whereas you sometimes have pain that appears to come from working out, it's not because you work out obsessively. The strength-training is helping you ignore what appear to be some self-hating tendencies. But I am no therapist.
If you are serious about giving me some advice on strength-training, my e-mail address is jtdutton@bu.edu (I get so much spam already that putting my e-mail address on one more public site isn't going to hurt). Who knows, maybe offering advice to someone else about something you know so well will help with those self-esteem issues.
Jim |
| Suz |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 14:24:45
zshapiro,
It is interesting that it occupies most of your waking day and thinking. Do you work out because you feel insecure about your body and you would like look better. I can really identify with that as I attach a great deal of feeling good about myself to my physical appearance. I do agree that anything that keeps one focused on the body and not on emotions that cause the self esteem issue is an equivalent of TMS - sort of a light version of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder maybe.
I had the unfortunate experience of being put on corticosteroids for my back - ridiculous. Sarno mentions in his book that the TMS pain only responded to steroids and he does not know why. I can agree with that - it was the only time I was out of pain.
However, now I am obssessed with my weight gain - I cannot budge the 9 pounds I put on - I have always been slim and after 5 months of great dieting (mostly protein and veggies) I have not budged a pound -I realize now how much my self esteem is attached to the way I look. It is very depressing. The steroid was dexamethasone and apparently sits in your system for up to a year - gross! It made me really crazy and emotional - very disturbing drug.
I am trying to work on not worrying about it so much - have thrown away my scales and am focusing on other things |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 13:07:52
Jim,
I appreciate your advice. It's funny, I always knew my working out was an obsession but I didn't realize until now that my obsession with working out is just another form of TMS.
I appreciate you admiring my discipline, but most people that know me don't admire it as much as they just don't understand it. They just can't really comprehend where my motivation comes from, it is just too extreme. I train like an olympic athlete, it almost occupies my entire waking day. And, I'll admit, it bothers me how much time I spend on it. I wish I could take that passion and apply it elsewhere, i.e. law school. I don't know why i take working out to such an extreme, but now it seems like it is just another form of TMS. The only difference between this form (weight-training addiction) and the PAIN most people experience, is that mine is somewhat healthy. I say somewhat because I do take it to an unhealthy extreme. I've tried everything besides taking steroids. (thank god)
I'd be glad to give you some adivce Jim D, but i don't know if I want to open up that can of worms. I'm guessing most TMS sufferers are just as capable of being as addicted to weight-training as I am. |
| Jim D. |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 07:49:50
quote:
Originally posted by Zshapiro32
I did weight-train yesterday. I didn't go too crazy, but I definitely pushed myself and my elbows feels the best it has in months and I didn't even take an anti-inflammatory.
As I said in my long message last week, this is the sort of inconsistency one looks for in diagnosing TMS--you elbow should have been worse after your workout. But be prepared for changes--TMS is like that--and try not to be discouraged if the pain returns or moves to another location. As others have pointed out on the board, a real injury like your initial one is the perfect opportunity for TMS to take hold. I injured my thumb a year ago (which prevented working out), and the pain continued for far too long. So one day I just decided it was probably TMS and got a little braver about using it and quit taking the anti-inflammatories. The pain went away fairly quickly.
I totally sympathize with your desire (maybe obsession?) to work out. Others have pointed out that you might want to deal with this obsession and its relation to your self-image. I find that working out gives me a better outlook on life than I ever had before (not that it's so great now), but obviously there has to be some balance between the exercise and the rest of your life (taking your food along with you might be a little extreme!). I admire your discipline with your workouts and diet; I'm afraid I enjoy red wine and desserts a little too much to achieve the ripped look you have (I'm also quite a bit older than you seem to be). I would like to know your exercise/diet routine, but obviously this message board is not the place for that. |
| Agata |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 07:19:57
Shapiro!
Your weight lifting is obsessive in my opinion. You need help with overcoming your obsessions.
I have golfers elbow as one of many TMS symptoms and for me the most difficult to overcome. One thing is important, make sure there is no physical problem. I had rest, cold, warm compresses, injections, physical therapy, and finally decided its TMS after physician told me how careful I need to be to the rest of my life.
The symptoms come and go. I dont restrict my activities because of that. Sometimes pain comes back after I consciously realize I didnt have pain for some time. I continue reading Sarnos Mindbody Prescription but I discovered I have to do it every day in order to have results. Also, you have to read his books very consciously. Apply what you read to your situation.
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| Kajsa |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:59:51
You need help (nothing to be ashamed of at all!).
But I think you need help from a good psycoligist, who accept
the idea of TMS.
You must have a lot of agony , anger etc that trigger this
thoughts about body and strict diet.
The truth is -we all get old. And are bodies change. Mine is heavier
and not at all that good-looking that it was 20 yers ago (I am 42 years old).
But I feel fine, I am painfree, and I have a man who really loves my body.
Actually I have the "time of my life" considering sex and love.
The thougts about diet and pain and not being able to workout is also TMS. I distracts you from more serious feelings of inner-pain ( I guess thats bnot propper english but you know what I mean).
I will not go further here -I think you need professional help.
Thats very common and a lot of us on the board have benefited from that.
All the best!
Kajsa
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| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:42:27
quote:
Originally posted by Kajsa
"I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life."
I do not want to hurt your feelings -but actually, if your self image is so badly hurt by not being able to weigt train - Then I think your big problem is your self image, your self esteem. Not your body! You have to look at that and work with that!
And itīs often a long process (I know) but I think that your body will react in one way or another untill your self image is a bit more
stabile. Itīs hard work. I know.
But itīs possible change it. Ans somehow your body tells you that
you ought to focus on something else.
Kajsa
I agree Kajsa. It seems as if my body is telling me to stop depending on weight training so much. I guess, deep down, I fear that I won't be able to weight train forever. That at a certain age I won't be able to maintain my physique and that frightens me. How will I feel good about myself?
My diet is so rigid. I feel as if it dominates my life. I have to bring food with me everywhere, even on dates! I bring sandwiches into movie theaters. I envy people on tv that have good bodies but seem to eat whatever they want.
I wish that i could:
a.) not be so dependent on working out to raise my self-esteem
b.) be able to go out and not worry about finding something suitable to eat |
| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:35:46
Dave and Kajsa,
I did weight-train yesterday. I didn't go too crazy, but I definitely pushed myself and my elbows feels the best it has in months and I didn't even take an anti-inflammatory.
It's amazing. People have pain for years, and then once they read Sarno's book and believe in his principals, it miraculously disappears. You can't argue with real stories. TMS is real, and I am finally a true believer. I can try and rationalize why the pain decreased so much, but the only answer is that stress was creating it. Especially for someone like me (and the rest of us) that obsesses over everything, TMS is the perfect distraction.
I mean, if my elbow was damaged, then working out yesterday would have made the pain increase, but the pain has significanlty decreased! I can actually concentrate now. It's amazing.
I won't say that the pain is gone completely, but atleast now I can start the road to recovery.
I know that I did originally hurt myself, but why would the pain have gotten worse? It's almost too good to be true that it disapeared to such an extent overnight. My dad, a pediatrician, will probably give me a million reasons as to why the pain dissipated so much, but in reality, he has no clue.
I really just don't understand how the most brilliant minds in western medicine can be so wrong. It's truly mind boggling. I'm sure if I had gone through with my wish to get an MRI taken, they would have found a million things wrong with my elbow and attributed the pain to them. When I ask my dad to explain to me why some people have disc abnormalities and don't experience pain while others have no disc abnormalites and experience pain, his only response is ,"people are different." His response just doesn't seem adequate to me. |
| Dave |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:37:18
quote:
Originally posted by Zshapiro32
...I feel as if my body prevents me from weight training so I can focus on not being able to weight train.
So why don't you start weight training again?
Your elbow has had enough time to heal. Start slowly, do not do any exercises that stress the elbow too much. Focus on your lower body if you must. Resuming normal physical activities is an important step. Accept that you cannot hurt yourself by doing it. If you don't feel that way, then you don't accept the TMS diagnosis. |
| Kajsa |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:13:02
You look at your body as your enemy. It is "preventing you"
from things and it makes you focus on the wrong things etc.
Youre body is just reacting to all the stess in your life!
Try to make some peace with your body even if it hurts. I know how hard it is because I have had BAD PAIN for ten years (but not any longer..)
Donīt be so angry and hurt (inside) because of the bodypain.
Actually itīs trying to say something to you. And pain (and fatigue) was the only thing that could have made me change my life and thoughts. But it forced me to. Because I couldnīt live with that amount of pain and fatigue. So I (very slowly) started to live a more stressfree life, do what i wanted to do, broke up from my marriage, started on another carrier, met a new man (alls this things took long time and a lot of effort -there is no such things as a "quickfix") But in the long run the pain and the fatigue also was a kind of help.
Kajsa
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| Zshapiro32 |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 07:33:46
I totally agree with you. But I feel as if my body prevents me from weight training so I can focus on not being able to weight train. It knwos that that is the perfect distraction.
quote:
Originally posted by Kajsa
"I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life."
I do not want to hurt your feelings -but actually, if your self image is so badly hurt by not being able to weigt train - Then I think your big problem is your self image, your self esteem. Not your body! You have to look at that and work with that!
And itīs often a long process (I know) but I think that your body will react in one way or another untill your self image is a bit more
stabile. Itīs hard work. I know.
But itīs possible change it. Ans somehow your body tells you that
you ought to focus on something else.
Kajsa
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