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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
 Posted - 09/23/2004 : 14:53:57
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Hello All,
My name is Zach, and I'm 23 years old. I have had TMS that manifested itself as severe back pain in the past. I currently believe that TMS is causing the pain in my left elbow. Let me relay to you the facts of my current situation.
About 6 weeks ago I fell down the stairs (3 steps) and landed on the tip of my elbow. I had some swelling and a little bruising, but that all disappeared a few days after the accident. I had an x-ray taken that came up negative. Since the accident, the pain has not gotten better at all, it may actually have gotten worse. I went to see an orthopaedist, he said that I strained my tricep, and that rest was all that was required. As you can see, rest has done nothing.
I injured myself about 3 days before beginning a new life, the start of law school. It's funny though, my number one concern was being able to have enough time to weight-train. I obsess over every aspect of working out. I plan my day around my workouts and my eating. And here I am, unable to workout because of a "soft tissue" injury.
Just to give you a little background about me: I put a great amount of pressure on myself as do my parents. I am a perfectionist and nothing is ever good enough. I probably handle stress worse than anyone else on the face of the earth. I am also incredibly inseucre. Anyway, I consider myself a walking TMS timebomb.
I really just want affirmation. Do you guys, in your honest opinion believe that my elbow is the result of TMS? Do you think I should resume training immediately? I feel as if it will never get better unless I go ahead and take that first step and fight through the pain, showing my body that I won't let the pain deter me. I feel as if the pain is a built in excuse in case I can't cut law school. Working out means so much to me.
It doesn't appear that TMS usually manifests itself in elbows. I really just want an honest opnion before I do anything rash (e.g. work out)because I am still scared. I don't want to do permanent damage to my arm.
Thanks so much,
Zach
pain is only temporary |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 07:02:07
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First of all, I must say I am not a doctor :)
But given your story it sounds very much like your elbow is TMS... nothing structurally wrong through x-rays, you've had the six weeks your body requires to heal the worst type of injury, and particularly the fact that three days later your elbow was no longer inflamed. Being in the elbow doesn't make it any less likely to be TMS... ever heard of tennis elbow?? for example , is very much a TMS injury.
Your explanation about starting a law school is a very typical reason for your brain to implement TMS symptoms. Regardless of how you feel about law school consciously I imagine your unconscious sees it as a huge pile of extra pressure. As you stated your personality traits make you a prime contender for a lot of unconscious rage and thus TMS.
My TMS started around about 23 . it's a time in a young man's life when the pressure is very extreme...
but yes, it seems like TMS, your personality type has probably been just waiting for an opportunity to exert TMS symptoms and your fall down the steps is the perfect thing.
If you don't already get yourself a copy of the mindbody prescription and give it a good read or two.
It would seem from Sarno theory that recommencing your weight training would be a good thing and know that your pain is not caused by any physical activity but by unconscious rage. I wouldn't jump in and expect you can do what you could six weeks ago though.. work up to getting back to your old workout.
Good Luck
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 08:17:00
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Thank you for your advice. I have read Sarno's book a few times. I thought i had conquered TMS so I gave it away a few years ago to someone that I thought needed it more than me.
I just bought Sopher's book and I plan on reading it cover to cover. I emailed him and he agreed with you. I must admit that I still have that fear of further hurting myself. I am excited that I know the pain will get better and that I can resume working out, but I am also not looking forward to the pain that I will experience immediately following my first workout. Last night my shoulder starting hurting randomly. I believe that this outbreak of TMS might be the incredibly difficult to beat.
I'll let you guys know how it goes. Monday is my first workout. Wish me luck. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 09:07:24
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Shapiro,
you might be setting yourself up for pain by already thinking of the pain that might occur after your workout.
This TMS thing is very sneaky. I have had to shift my thinking when it comes to working out. I now have no expectations of having pain and so the pain is reducing! I have to break the cycle of expecting pain every time I run. I get it in the sciatica on the left side - I know this is just conditioning. I am totally ignoring it and continuing to run. I tell myself over and over that my body is designed to run and move and I have a wonderful strong body! I am basically verbally challenging my unconscious. The other component is that I don't care about the pain - and give it no thought or time! What has happened is that the pain while running is dramatically reducing and the next day it is barely there.
However, I am getting very sharp stabbing upper back pain - again the TMS is just trying to hold on for dear life! I am genuinely not disturbed by this anymore -just couldn't care less!
It is so unlike me not to worry - and so refreshing and life changing not to focus on the pain. I am pretty convinced that the upper back pain will stop. It wakes me up throughout the night - but I just laugh at it and go back to sleep - now this pain is pretty intense - it covers my whole back - but by the time I get up and move around it just turns into stiffness - this is classic TMS.
I think it would be good for you to read "healing Back Pain" or "MBP"
and maybe do a little journallng - just write down what is stressing you right now - maybe even give your child hood some thought.
I have always been someone who took my schooling very seriously - had to get the best grades and caused myself a lot of stress and anxiety.
Hope this helps
Suz |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 11:22:58
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I agree that i am setting myself up for pain, it's just that the fear is so hard to conquer.
I just started thinking about what has been bothering since the accident. I realize that I haven't really done it in a while. I've been too focused on the pain to think of anything else. For the last 6 weeks, the pain has always been either on the forefront or background of my mind at ALL times. The only time I've found reprieve is when I am researching elbow injuries on the net or I somehow manage to immerse myself in an interesting conversation.
It's been difficult. I can't wait to be normal again. I catch myself staring at people's elbows, and loathing them for having two functional elbows and not fully appreciating them. Haha, I'm crazy!! |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 12:33:36
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To Zshapiro32:
Your elbow problem is one I share. I had terrible back pain some years back and, after finding Dr. Sarno's book, experienced one of those miraculous cures--all pain gone in 48 hours or so. I couldn't believe it. But then elbow pain started--seemingly connected to weight training--and it has been much more difficult to handle. The obvious connection between lifting weights that strain the elbow and the pain that follows must have seemed to my brain like the chance of a lifetime. I spent hours on the Web researching elbow pain and checking sports injury sites; it was absolutely clear that I had tennis elbow, and I fully accepted all the dire warnings I read about permanent injury. I gave up exercising for a long time, but, like you, it means a lot to me, so I kept beginning again. Both Dr. Sarno and Dr. Sopher mention tennis elbow (golfer's or pitcher's elbow is another variation) as a TMS site, but I found this difficult to accept. I have, however, made real progress recently.
First, I looked for inconsistencies in the pain. On occasions there would be no appreciable elbow pain after lifting weights--just the usual discomfort that frequently follows exercise and that goes away fairly quickly. This was certainly contrary to tennis elbow--the tendons should have hurt each time. Another inconsistency: Sometimes the elbow would hurt when I hadn't exercised in quite some time. The brain would cleverly say: Ah, but you carried those groceries yesterday, and you know the physical therapist said total rest for the elbow is necessary. I had to try to fight off that ridiculous idea.
Second, I tried to fight the conditioning that connects elbow pain to lifting weights. This is really difficult because the connection seems so obvious. I don't have any easy tricks to overcoming this issue. At times when the pain has gotten bad, I have reduced the weight lifted and then increased it gradually. I lift through the discomfort as much as possible, telling myself I have TMS and not tennis elbow and concentrating on the muscles being worked, not the tendons that are hurting. This works to some degree (I am not claiming I have put TMS behind me). But as you implied about yourself, weight training is so important to me that I am willing to put up with some pain/discomfort; I have become convinced from other experiences that I am prone to TMS and so I do not believe I am hurting myself (and certainly there has been no serious injury). One thing I have found helpful is to purchase fractional plates (as small as 1/4 pound); adding a total of just 1/2 pound to the bar helps me overcome the brain's argument: "no wonder your elbow hurts, you are increasing the weight too fast."
Third, I try to do the TMS work (what everybody on this board recommends). I found Dr. Sarno's videotapes very helpful; there is something in his confidence in the TMS theory that is reassuring. I found Dr. Sopher's book quite useful and e-mailed him; his reply was a big help: "You have to stop and ask yourself whether the activity you are doing is something you are not capable of. If you have always worked out with weights, which do not sound excessive, then you have likely become conditioned to expect and accept pain from this exercise. That is also why the symptoms persist, despite stating that you believe in TMS. As long as you believe that there is a physical cause or explanation for the symptoms, the symptoms will persist....The more you do an activity, the better your conditioning and fitness, making you less susceptible to injury, not more!" After this past summer's visit to my childhood home and all the events and feelings from the past such a visit can bring up, I began to experience emotionally some of the things making me angry and sad; this seems to have led to an improvement with my elbow. A lot of us with TMS tend to be very dry, rational people avoiding emotions at all costs; overcoming that seems to be part of the "cure."
And finally, I found some good ideas in Fred Amir's book. He also experienced pain seemingly connected with weight training. He provided the (to me) very useful insight that his brain knew that exercise would improve his self-confidence and general outlook on life and so tried to prevent him from doing it. I think he is on to something.
Good luck.
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 14:53:29
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It is good to know that others that have TMS share my love for weight-training. I appreciate your advice. I have completely stopped taking Vioxx and I now use my elbow like there is nothing wrong. I have stopped "babying" it and the pain has not gotten worse, so that's a good sign. The true test, is that first workout, which I plan on doing this coming monday.
I purchased Amir's book a few years ago, I just can't remember where I put it. Yes, with me, weight training is definitely something I do to help my self image. I depend on it. I'm the crazy guy everyone asks for advice. All my meals are regimented and I never miss a workout. I feel as if there are so many things in life you can't control, but I can control the shape of my body. I depend on my "outstanding physique" to make up for the other aspects that I hate about myself. Which I realized the other day, is entirely everything about me, from how I walk, to the shape of my nose. I couldn't think of a single that I like about myself except for the fact that I am "ripped". Which I feel has been stripped from me lately. What you said makes a lot of sense.
I am glad that I found this board. I've never considered myself normal, in fact I hate being "insane" But it's good to know that I'm not as "crazy" as I think I am. It's good to know that many have struggle with TMS and beaten it.
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 08:06:32
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I have not specifically had the elbow problem weight training or other sorts of training. I have found it useful to at least go to your training initially, with some sort of topic or a number of topics to think about whilst you are training...
basically giving yourself a list of distractions to think about, whilst you are challenging your activities which otherwise may cause pain. For me swimming was, what I did , if I focused on shoulder pain and then yes, it would intensify but if I started thinking about planning my activities over the next week or about some computer programming solution I was to plan . or some other complicated, thought process, which completely took my focus away from the activity at hand then I would have limited difficulty performing and working through the task at hand!
oh and for me Vioxx actually intensified my pain and did nothing to reduce it.
And yes, I would like to reassert my appreciation for this Forum it continues to keep me focused on the psychological and to work through and achieve progress :)
It can be a difficult thing to achieve - doing the activity, you are most reluctant to do, yet without thinking about pain whilst you do it. Yet this is a very important aspect in my opinion. If you can devise any sort of distraction whilst you are doing your activity then I think it is a pluss. I have read on this board several people who do their activity as a competition with other people and this to me seems very effective, because you are too busy focusing on playing a good game to think about your pain... |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 13:08:02
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It appears that I have suffered a setback. The pain is just too great. I have been journaling for the past few days, and I realize that, a few days is nothing in the grand scheme of things but I can't even concentrate.
The stress is so great. I can't study, I can't function without thinking of the pain. I just don't know what to do anymore. I miss being able to workout so much. This is the longest break I have ever taken.
I just fear that maybe I actually am injured. I know the X-ray came back negative, but soft tissue injuries do occur. What about athletes that miss months due to strains and sprains? It has only been a little longer than a month for me. I just don't know what to do anymore. I think i am going to get an MRI done to see what they say.
I don't remember being so easily dissuaded from the TMS theory when I had backpain. I guess because I couldn't attribute the back pain to a direct injury. Also, your back isn't as involved in the weight lifting motion as is your elbow. This just seems different, because I know the exact incident that lead to the injury. I can still vividly remember the fall. The pain is just so very real. I have the date I fell embedded in my brain. I have officially given up.
I just wish that I didn't have this crappy student insurance plan. I fear that this injury is going to be one that I can't afford.
I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life.
I am looking at my ex-girlfriend's away message right now and it says,"gym" This makes me hate myself even more. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 16:58:53
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Your message is littered with the word "injury" and related physical concepts. As long as you are thinking physical the pain will continue.
If it was a physical injury, why would the pain suddenly get worse? Shouldn't it subside over time as the injury heals?
Take a moment and re-read your message. Try to look at it from an outside perspective. You're beating yourself up.
Something has happened in your life that you are not facing up to. Something has happened that is affecting you much more deeply than you realize. The pain is there to prevent you from feeling it, and it has been a whopping success.
You say you "hate yourself" and that the pain "hurts your self image." You have it backwards. The pain is not the cause. The pain is the result. |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 05:43:50
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"I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life."
I do not want to hurt your feelings -but actually, if your self image is so badly hurt by not being able to weigt train - Then I think your big problem is your self image, your self esteem. Not your body! You have to look at that and work with that!
And itīs often a long process (I know) but I think that your body will react in one way or another untill your self image is a bit more
stabile. Itīs hard work. I know.
But itīs possible change it. Ans somehow your body tells you that
you ought to focus on something else.
Kajsa |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 07:33:46
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I totally agree with you. But I feel as if my body prevents me from weight training so I can focus on not being able to weight train. It knwos that that is the perfect distraction.
quote:
Originally posted by Kajsa
"I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life."
I do not want to hurt your feelings -but actually, if your self image is so badly hurt by not being able to weigt train - Then I think your big problem is your self image, your self esteem. Not your body! You have to look at that and work with that!
And itīs often a long process (I know) but I think that your body will react in one way or another untill your self image is a bit more
stabile. Itīs hard work. I know.
But itīs possible change it. Ans somehow your body tells you that
you ought to focus on something else.
Kajsa
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:13:02
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You look at your body as your enemy. It is "preventing you"
from things and it makes you focus on the wrong things etc.
Youre body is just reacting to all the stess in your life!
Try to make some peace with your body even if it hurts. I know how hard it is because I have had BAD PAIN for ten years (but not any longer..)
Donīt be so angry and hurt (inside) because of the bodypain.
Actually itīs trying to say something to you. And pain (and fatigue) was the only thing that could have made me change my life and thoughts. But it forced me to. Because I couldnīt live with that amount of pain and fatigue. So I (very slowly) started to live a more stressfree life, do what i wanted to do, broke up from my marriage, started on another carrier, met a new man (alls this things took long time and a lot of effort -there is no such things as a "quickfix") But in the long run the pain and the fatigue also was a kind of help.
Kajsa
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Zshapiro32
...I feel as if my body prevents me from weight training so I can focus on not being able to weight train.
So why don't you start weight training again?
Your elbow has had enough time to heal. Start slowly, do not do any exercises that stress the elbow too much. Focus on your lower body if you must. Resuming normal physical activities is an important step. Accept that you cannot hurt yourself by doing it. If you don't feel that way, then you don't accept the TMS diagnosis. |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:35:46
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Dave and Kajsa,
I did weight-train yesterday. I didn't go too crazy, but I definitely pushed myself and my elbows feels the best it has in months and I didn't even take an anti-inflammatory.
It's amazing. People have pain for years, and then once they read Sarno's book and believe in his principals, it miraculously disappears. You can't argue with real stories. TMS is real, and I am finally a true believer. I can try and rationalize why the pain decreased so much, but the only answer is that stress was creating it. Especially for someone like me (and the rest of us) that obsesses over everything, TMS is the perfect distraction.
I mean, if my elbow was damaged, then working out yesterday would have made the pain increase, but the pain has significanlty decreased! I can actually concentrate now. It's amazing.
I won't say that the pain is gone completely, but atleast now I can start the road to recovery.
I know that I did originally hurt myself, but why would the pain have gotten worse? It's almost too good to be true that it disapeared to such an extent overnight. My dad, a pediatrician, will probably give me a million reasons as to why the pain dissipated so much, but in reality, he has no clue.
I really just don't understand how the most brilliant minds in western medicine can be so wrong. It's truly mind boggling. I'm sure if I had gone through with my wish to get an MRI taken, they would have found a million things wrong with my elbow and attributed the pain to them. When I ask my dad to explain to me why some people have disc abnormalities and don't experience pain while others have no disc abnormalites and experience pain, his only response is ,"people are different." His response just doesn't seem adequate to me. |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:42:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajsa
"I can't even explain to you how much not being able to weight train hurts my self image. I have never felt more naked and exposed in my life."
I do not want to hurt your feelings -but actually, if your self image is so badly hurt by not being able to weigt train - Then I think your big problem is your self image, your self esteem. Not your body! You have to look at that and work with that!
And itīs often a long process (I know) but I think that your body will react in one way or another untill your self image is a bit more
stabile. Itīs hard work. I know.
But itīs possible change it. Ans somehow your body tells you that
you ought to focus on something else.
Kajsa
I agree Kajsa. It seems as if my body is telling me to stop depending on weight training so much. I guess, deep down, I fear that I won't be able to weight train forever. That at a certain age I won't be able to maintain my physique and that frightens me. How will I feel good about myself?
My diet is so rigid. I feel as if it dominates my life. I have to bring food with me everywhere, even on dates! I bring sandwiches into movie theaters. I envy people on tv that have good bodies but seem to eat whatever they want.
I wish that i could:
a.) not be so dependent on working out to raise my self-esteem
b.) be able to go out and not worry about finding something suitable to eat |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 09:59:51
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You need help (nothing to be ashamed of at all!).
But I think you need help from a good psycoligist, who accept
the idea of TMS.
You must have a lot of agony , anger etc that trigger this
thoughts about body and strict diet.
The truth is -we all get old. And are bodies change. Mine is heavier
and not at all that good-looking that it was 20 yers ago (I am 42 years old).
But I feel fine, I am painfree, and I have a man who really loves my body.
Actually I have the "time of my life" considering sex and love.
The thougts about diet and pain and not being able to workout is also TMS. I distracts you from more serious feelings of inner-pain ( I guess thats bnot propper english but you know what I mean).
I will not go further here -I think you need professional help.
Thats very common and a lot of us on the board have benefited from that.
All the best!
Kajsa
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Agata
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 07:19:57
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Shapiro!
Your weight lifting is obsessive in my opinion. You need help with overcoming your obsessions.
I have golfers elbow as one of many TMS symptoms and for me the most difficult to overcome. One thing is important, make sure there is no physical problem. I had rest, cold, warm compresses, injections, physical therapy, and finally decided its TMS after physician told me how careful I need to be to the rest of my life.
The symptoms come and go. I dont restrict my activities because of that. Sometimes pain comes back after I consciously realize I didnt have pain for some time. I continue reading Sarnos Mindbody Prescription but I discovered I have to do it every day in order to have results. Also, you have to read his books very consciously. Apply what you read to your situation.
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 07:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Zshapiro32
I did weight-train yesterday. I didn't go too crazy, but I definitely pushed myself and my elbows feels the best it has in months and I didn't even take an anti-inflammatory.
As I said in my long message last week, this is the sort of inconsistency one looks for in diagnosing TMS--you elbow should have been worse after your workout. But be prepared for changes--TMS is like that--and try not to be discouraged if the pain returns or moves to another location. As others have pointed out on the board, a real injury like your initial one is the perfect opportunity for TMS to take hold. I injured my thumb a year ago (which prevented working out), and the pain continued for far too long. So one day I just decided it was probably TMS and got a little braver about using it and quit taking the anti-inflammatories. The pain went away fairly quickly.
I totally sympathize with your desire (maybe obsession?) to work out. Others have pointed out that you might want to deal with this obsession and its relation to your self-image. I find that working out gives me a better outlook on life than I ever had before (not that it's so great now), but obviously there has to be some balance between the exercise and the rest of your life (taking your food along with you might be a little extreme!). I admire your discipline with your workouts and diet; I'm afraid I enjoy red wine and desserts a little too much to achieve the ripped look you have (I'm also quite a bit older than you seem to be). I would like to know your exercise/diet routine, but obviously this message board is not the place for that. |
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Zshapiro32
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 13:07:52
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Jim,
I appreciate your advice. It's funny, I always knew my working out was an obsession but I didn't realize until now that my obsession with working out is just another form of TMS.
I appreciate you admiring my discipline, but most people that know me don't admire it as much as they just don't understand it. They just can't really comprehend where my motivation comes from, it is just too extreme. I train like an olympic athlete, it almost occupies my entire waking day. And, I'll admit, it bothers me how much time I spend on it. I wish I could take that passion and apply it elsewhere, i.e. law school. I don't know why i take working out to such an extreme, but now it seems like it is just another form of TMS. The only difference between this form (weight-training addiction) and the PAIN most people experience, is that mine is somewhat healthy. I say somewhat because I do take it to an unhealthy extreme. I've tried everything besides taking steroids. (thank god)
I'd be glad to give you some adivce Jim D, but i don't know if I want to open up that can of worms. I'm guessing most TMS sufferers are just as capable of being as addicted to weight-training as I am. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2004 : 14:24:45
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zshapiro,
It is interesting that it occupies most of your waking day and thinking. Do you work out because you feel insecure about your body and you would like look better. I can really identify with that as I attach a great deal of feeling good about myself to my physical appearance. I do agree that anything that keeps one focused on the body and not on emotions that cause the self esteem issue is an equivalent of TMS - sort of a light version of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder maybe.
I had the unfortunate experience of being put on corticosteroids for my back - ridiculous. Sarno mentions in his book that the TMS pain only responded to steroids and he does not know why. I can agree with that - it was the only time I was out of pain.
However, now I am obssessed with my weight gain - I cannot budge the 9 pounds I put on - I have always been slim and after 5 months of great dieting (mostly protein and veggies) I have not budged a pound -I realize now how much my self esteem is attached to the way I look. It is very depressing. The steroid was dexamethasone and apparently sits in your system for up to a year - gross! It made me really crazy and emotional - very disturbing drug.
I am trying to work on not worrying about it so much - have thrown away my scales and am focusing on other things |
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tms and the elbow
