| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| art |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 16:09:22
This is something which I've not had much success with, although Dr. Sarno calls it a TMS equivalent. I don't have it bad luckily. But when leaving the house, I'm a lock checker, and a stove checker, and a toilet checker (to make sure they're not running)...It sometimes takes me 2 or 3 minutes before I'm out of the house
I fight it, but usually lose. What does me in is the thought that the energy and time expended in checking is such a small investment when weighed against the various calamities I'm trying to avoid..floods, fires, thefts, etc etc..
The key for me is fixing in memory the fact that I've checked. Once this is done, the little doubting gremlins cease their chatter and I'm free...
Still and all, it's a waste of time. JUst thought I'd throw this out there and see what those who might have similar issues have done..
Many thanks,
A.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 10:41:10
Ditto to what sonora sky wrote. CBT indeed offers superficial solutions to a problem that runs deeper, in our subconsious mind.
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Sarno-ize it!
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| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 10:27:28
Hi BR,
The way i understand it, C-B therapists try to help you solve your problems (OCD, for example) by offering techniques that focus on curbing the behavior itself. For example, when one gets the impulse to check the locks, the CBT might have you ask yourself why you feel the need to check the locks again and again. One might reply, "I'm afraid someone will break into my house." The CBT might then advise you to ask yourself whether or not this is a rational thought. The patient replies, "no, I guess not. There isn't a high percentage (statistically) that my house would be broken into." That process in itself is supposed to relieve the fear and compulsive action, and allow the person to move on with their life.
Sarno would disagree with the effectiveness of this method, because it only looks for superficial solutions to a problem that runs deeper, in our subconsious mind. He favors psychodynamically-oriented therapists who seek out the root causes of your ailment (whether it be OCD, depression, or back pain). Such therapists are trained to help patients explore buried emotions in their past (such as repressed rage from childhood) that may be causing our problems in the present.
ss |
| Big Rob |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 09:49:08
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a psychotherapy based on modifying everyday thoughts and behaviors, but it is not a efficacious treatment modality for TMS sufferers.
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Sarno-ize it!
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How is that?
The behavioral side of CBT is exactly the same as what Dr Sarno describes in his books.
The cognitive side essentially describes why there is a problem in the first place.
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| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 19:16:15
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a psychotherapy based on modifying everyday thoughts and behaviors, but it is not a efficacious treatment modality for TMS sufferers.
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Sarno-ize it!
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| Big Rob |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 14:59:50
I am an OCD sufferer. I also cured my back pain from the mind body prescription book.
However.........
Has anyone ever heard of cognitive behavioural therapy?
That provides a better explanation. i.e. the emotional attachment to unevidenced beliefs makes us irrational (OCD, depression, back pain, etc. etc.)
Has anyone heard the term emotional disorder before? |
| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 09:48:59
quote:
Originally posted by art
I have a hard time thinking of this as TMS. It feels more basic than that, an expression of the fear all human beings have, consciously or not, of pain and death.
I think most people have these thoughts/flashes, the difference is whether a person is able to simply observe the thoughts objectively and let them pass, or weather he/she begins to believe/hold/retain the thoughts and live them (experience the anxiety and stress) as if they were true. The clinging to these thoughts on a mental level can reek havoc in the body. The neural receptors in the brain don't distinguish between encoutnering a real/actual threat and visualizing/thinking about/imagining the threat. The body reacts in the same way. (I just read this somewhere, but I can't locate the source at the moment...) It's like you're putting yourself into a suspended state of flight-or-fight.
ss |
| mikescott_98 |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 06:46:14
This might be a solution to people that have to check doors many times before leaving a house. If you are finding it hard to be sure, it might be worth installing a home monitoring system. I do not know much about them, but there might be some that you can dial your home via a cell phone to check and see everything is OK. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 07:57:33
Hey Art,
I so feel your pain, especially about feeling fragility for oneself and others we love...I keep hearing of people dying out of nowhere, even someone 39, a friend of my b/f's..It's so upsetting and scary even w/ my strong belief in God..I can only imagine it must be worse without a belief in a Supreme Being or Heaven..The Hyponchondriacal tendencies i have are with me regularly too and i hate it! I had a pain in my head last night and right away I think (i won't even say it!) the worst!! I wish I could change this..there must be a way besides expensive psycho-therapy! In any case, I do understand and I wouldn't get too worried about being extra careful...I also have fear when driving, especialy since i have had accidents that were not my fault and truly did injury me very badly..Going in an ambulance once was terrifying..
Hugs!
K |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 07:35:35
Checking 3 times is not OCD. Checking 50 times is another story.
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Sarno-ize it!
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| art |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 07:22:07
Thanks to all...I'm actually amazed how many other's have this. It's interesting to see that some (mary) even consider this normal. I suppose one quick double check isn't a problem, but I'll often check 2 or 3 times. I'll go to check, then get sidetracked and thus not create the memory of checking that I seem to need in order to relax. If I can picture looking at the burners of the stove and noticing that they're all off, I'm ok. If not, then I worry and will usually check again.
Sonora, I think you touched on it. For me, it's symptomatic of feeling a lack of control over things in a violent and uncaring universe. I don't seem to have the sense of personal safety that many "normal" people seem to have. I'm keenly aware of the fragility of life, especially my own and my loved ones. I never go on a long car ride for example without contemplating the possibility of a fatal accident. And I never leave the house without thinking about the possibility of a fire that kills my dogs..
I have a hard time thinking of this as TMS. It feels more basic than that, an expression of the fear all human beings have, consciously or not, of pain and death. It seems to me that the older I get, the thinner does that protective veil of feeling safe in the world become. When I was a kid, I felt immortal. In my mid-50's, I feel anything but.. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 06:57:35
OCD is most definetly a TMS equivalent when you understand the pyschololgy behind TMS and OCD. You cannot make a definitive statement based on one single case.
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Sarno-ize it!
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| marytabby |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 06:25:47
I don't have any form of OCD but I do find myself double checking the lock on the front door or making sure the coffee pot if unplugged. If I can't clearly remember locking it (which I have never forgotten to do) I will go back and check it. I have even driven a few exits past my house and turned around because I couldn't remember locking the door or unplugging the coffee maker. I think these are normal behaviors. If however I were doing it over and over, well then I'd say it's OCD. What others said probably would work for you: bite the bullet, ignore your temptation to check everything. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:40:32
quote:
Originally posted by carbar
I used to think that OCD was a TMS equiv ONLY but now I have anecdotal evidence that it isn't. ;) how scientific.
Recently, though, I met a 3 year old kid with the tendencies of OCD. He gets all emotional and obsessive about the texture of his clothes and food, whether his shoe lace is tied tightly enough, etc. So, I'm thinking that there must be some kind of wiring/chemistry to it if this behavior can affect someone so young.
Nine months in the womb may be a very TMS creating environment. One is in a dark, lonely place, without a cell-phone, totaly dependent on someone, one has never been formaly introduced to. Perhaps the womb is the original TMS reservoir of rage.
Whoever came up with the notion, that the womb was some Nirvana or Garden of Eden, probably doesn't remember what it was like, and should do a re-birthing workshop.
some of my favorite excerpts from 'TDM' : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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| armchairlinguist |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 08:57:29
carbar, I don't think that your example is really evidence for OCD not being TMS. TMS issues can stem from things we experienced as infants or very small children, or from personality traits (which may be inborn). Kids do get TMS -- I think Sarno says usually in the form of stomachaches and headaches associated with activities they don't like, but sometimes in other forms, presumably.
Also, those may not be OCD qualities, though it's hard to tell. But the kid could just be sensitive or going through a phase, or could also have autistic tendencies -- some autistic spectrum kids have OCD-like rituals or particular sensitivities.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
| mikescott_98 |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 05:59:15
My wife is this type of "checker". She has me double and triple check that her hair straightener is unplugged every time she leaves the house.
I have mentioned before that I found out about Dr. Sarno through the unusual source of Howard Stern's book "Miss America". He had had terrible back pain and OCD. His OCD was so bad that it was cured BEFORE the back pain, and the side effect was that his back pain became the most excruciating it had ever been....and he was the happy because he longer had the OCD. He did not care how bad his back hurt as long as he did not have to turn the lights on and off 32 times when he left the room (I might be wrong on what his OCD act was, but it was something similar to that). Soon after his OCD was cured his back pain went away. |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 23:52:01
Art--I'm reading a book called, "The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force." The author, Jeffrey Schwartz MD, who also wrote "Brain Lock", created a novel method of fighting OCD. The old method is simply resisting the OCD urges. A much more successful approach is to add some other important steps. The first is to recognize the obsession at its first beckoning. This is mindfulness. Second, is to relabel it, so it's not, "I'd better wash my hands again because they are full of germs" but, "Oh, that's my OCD acting up again..." Third, refrain from acting on the compulsion, but at the same time do something pleasurable or something that will capture your attention. The idea is that, practiced over and over each time the obsession arises, the obsession will weaken, as it has to compete with the new, healthier thought or activity. A new neural pathway will have been created (neuroplasticity). |
| carbar |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 19:51:53
I used to think that OCD was a TMS equiv ONLY but now I have anecdotal evidence that it isn't. ;) how scientific.
Recently, though, I met a 3 year old kid with the tendencies of OCD. He gets all emotional and obsessive about the texture of his clothes and food, whether his shoe lace is tied tightly enough, etc. So, I'm thinking that there must be some kind of wiring/chemistry to it if this behavior can affect someone so young.
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| sonora sky |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 11:52:07
I think you have to get at the root of the fear that is causing the compulsive behavior. Simply forcing yourself NOT to check the locks and be on your way, for example, might not get to the heart of things. While it may break that particular habit, the mind will soon find another outlet on which to displace the fear.
I wonder if, when you felt the urge to check locks on the way out, you paused and did some psychological/emotional searching, a la Sarno. Try to find out what fear is causing you to compulsively perform these acts. What might happen if the doors went unlocked? (I'm sure many possibilities come up; my mind would go wild with this question.) Take each scenario to its extreme end (aka the snowball effect). (Art, I see a link between this thread and your recent one about disasterous/horrible images popping into your mind throughout the day. This happens to me a lot, and it usually conderns deep-seeded fears of loss.) For me, I would immediately think of a break-in. The thought of people rummaging through the house and stealing our stuff would be quickly surpassed by a much greater threat: that these people would find my pet and torture her to death. At this thought, I would immediately start to cry and then become enraged, not because this event that I've thought up might occur, but at the people in our world who do such things, and at Evil on a grand scale. Then I would spiral into feelings of helplessness and hopelessness that our planet is doomed and there's nothing I can do to stop it. (Sorry if that seemed a bit of a jump to you guys, but my mind works fast.) So, for me, checking the locks feeds into my general fear of loss (could I survive it? how would I cope?) as well as my fear of losing control (despite the locks, am I ever really safe? Can I prevent my own death or the death of others?).
Now, once you get to this stage, I'm not sure how to proceed. Identifying the fears may be enough; holding them in your awareness, feeling them deeply, and then letting them go when you are ready may be effective. These fears tend to overwhelm me, I think because I have not yet learned how to let them go; they cling and I ruminate, which ultimately perpetuates the fear and keeps me frozen. Any suggestions?
ss |
| Shary |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 08:59:48
I have to agree that this is probably a trait of TMS-prone personality types. We tend to be worriers and checkers. It might also be a learned trait to some extent. My mother was a checker and so is my daughter. I have a friend whose toilet ran for an entire six weeks while she was in Italy. It didn't overflow but she ended up with a $500 water bill. Since then, if I'm going to be gone for more than a few hours, I listen for the toilets before I go out the door. This is just common sense.
If I don't remember whether I closed the garage door, I will go back and look because I know it'll bug me if I don't. To me this is no biggie so why make myself uneasy by challenging it? I should point out that there's a difference between doing something automatically and not remembering if you did it and, say, deliberately washing your hands a hundred times a day, fully aware that you are doing so. People who have OCD probably know they have it. The rest of us are just absentminded. |
| Singer_Artist |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 06:56:31
Hi Art,
I have done the going back to the house and checking the garage b4, as Shary speaks of..So I believe there are varying degrees of this tendency..I have a dear friend of many years from NJ who has OCD so bad he had to go inpatient for a time..They used primarily behavioral modification and meds..I think in your case, it just the TMS gremlin looking for another distraction, the old symptom imperative!
You are a strong willed man with alot of discipline! I believe you can lick this thing more easily then you think..Perhaps try to check just once, and when you do, make it a point to be 100 percent focused and mindful in that moment..take a deep breathe and leave the house in peace..
Hugs,
Karen |
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