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positivevibes
204 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2008 : 02:07:01
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OK folks, I really need your help with making this decision. Sorry for the long post, but I want to totally explain the situation.
As you may know if you've read my recent posts, I fell very hard on my right hip at the beginning of this month. After the initial pain and bruises went away, I felt basically OK (my neck and shoulders seemed stiff but I figured that would go away after a while).
Then I caught a cold and sinus infection, which had me blowing my nose almost constantly for 2 weeks (putting a lot of pressure on the neck). So again I figured that the continued neck and shoulder pain were related to all the hard nose blowing, putting all that pressure on my neck.
Finally the sinus infection went away. So last week I started exercising again. I expected some initial discomfort because I haven't exercised in a couple of months. But it seems like some of my old back pain problems are coming back. It's a feeling of pressure in my lower spine that upsets me. I could deal with pain that was strictly muscular. But this dull ache reminds me of how things were last year when my pelvis and spine were apparently mis-aligned. Plus my neck and shoulders feel extremely stiff and painful and I can't seem to make it go away.
Late last year, I found a very experienced Osteopath who worked on me from October til December. He said that I had a lot of disfunctions; among them were problems with my sacrum -- he said that my pelvis was "sheared up on one side" and that my sacrum was twisted. After he worked on me a couple of times my neck and shoulder pain totally disappeared -- felt better than they had in probably 10 years. It took longer for my back to respond. Between his treatments and reading Dr. Sarno's book I was feeling a lot better by January.
But like I said, I fell very hard on my hip a few weeks ago and now I'm wondering whether I slightly dislocated something all over again. I'm thinking of going back to the Osteopath -- at least for an evaluation.
So why am I not running out the door for an appointment? Because often his treatments will give me some initial pain -- worse than the pain I came in with. After a few weeks, the pain gets better and disappears. It's a process of re-aligning things, apparently.
I'm going on a beach vacation with my family to Grand Cayman in early July and I don't want anything to mess it up. I'm afraid he may make my pain worse until them and possibly I'd be in pain during vacation because of his treatments. On the other hand, it's very possible that he could help me and make me feel better in just a couple of weeks. I have no way of knowing, because I'm not sure WHAT, if anything, may have been harmed by the fall I took.
I will add that the Osteopath told me that often a hard fall will cause problems, and that if I was ever in an accident or fell that I should come to him for treatment before "things get worse." Obviously he planted a seed of thought in my head, but the guy has 20+ years of experience....
My husband would be against me going to him -- he would think that I was rushing off and making things worse (getting caught up in the pain cycle again). He would be angry at me if I wound up in worse pain because of the Osteopath -- and I would be sitting around thinking "damn, what have I done to myself?". Even though my husband has been supportive through my back pain problems, to him this would be akin to a person hitting themselves on the head and then complaining about the headache. IF I went to the Osteopath, and IF my pain got worse for awhile, I couldn't say much about it to my husband -- because his attitude would be "I told you so."
I was even thinking of getting an MRI to ensure that I didn't actually do some damage when I fell. I had thought that I'd wait until 8 weeks after the fall (mid-July after my trip) to do that, because if something had fractured it should be healed by then. But really I don't think I have a fracture. I'm curious to see what an MRI would show, but at the same time I don't want another doctor telling me that my herniated discs are causing pain (which I no longer believe...don't want to go down that road again....)
As you can see, I'm getting very confused.
Currently my discomfort is manageable if I take 3 Advil twice a day, intersperced with some Tylenol if necessary. But really I don't want to have to take ANY drugs; I've taken so much of this stuff in the past year I worry about its long term effect on my organs.
As a Sarno disciple, I keep thinking that I should say that this is TMS and try to ignore it. But unfortuantely I do have doubts because I fell with all my weight on a very hard surface. I swear, it was as if I could see, in my mind's eye, something getting displaced in my pelvis when that happened (my pelvis really hurt). My previous problems involved my pelvis and my SI joints, and I know that both were directly impacted by the fall, because I could feel it.
Can you guys please help me wade through this maze of decision making? What do you think is the best course of action under the circumstances? Part of me wants to see the Osteopath next week, and the other part wants to just wait it out, take the drugs, and see how I feel AFTER our vacation.
Notice that I said that I wasn't in pain when I was sick with the sinus infection. I was totally taking it easy for many weeks. The pain only started when I began stretching and exercising again -- aggrivating something, apparently.
Also, I continue to have this strange problem with my right leg (even the Osteopath can't seem to fix it): I can't get my right knee to totally go flat when I lie down. And I have pain at the top of my right hamstring (where it attaches to my butt). Even when my back pain was better, these two problems persisted and now they are getting aggrivated again, too.
Despite all the Sarno stuff, I wonder what the hell sort of disfunction would cause the knee and hamstring problems (they began last summer after a week of severe muscle spasms in my back -- and have not left me, since then.) |
Edited by - positivevibes on 05/31/2008 02:29:32 |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2008 : 02:40:50
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quote:
I can't get my right knee to totally go flat when I lie down.
I probably can't get my knee to go totally flat - I don't know whether or not because it seems unimportant.
My feelings now are that osteopaths and chiropractors don't actually move joints etc thus producing relief. Because if pushing or pulling actually moved bones and ligaments then every time someone stepped hard on the brake pedal, whilst driving, the resulting forward jerk against the seat belt would dislocate the vertebrae, shoulder ligaments etc.
I think that there is a major placebo effect from these practitioners because they are giving one to one care and alot of time and attention to you - where else does that happen in the average adult's life.
Sorry this doesn't help you much Positivibes.
According to Louise Hay sinus problems represent anger with someone close to you - do you have issues with you other half? |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2008 : 03:57:54
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Hi positivevibes. I am so sorry that you are going thru so much right now. I can understand the confusion. One part of you wants to believe that this is all TMS and yet another part of you wants to think it is all physical. This is why Sarno says perhaps the most difficult thing of all is to convince yourself that there is nothing seriously wrong. I think all of us go thru this conflict.
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I swear, it was as if I could see, in my mind's eye, something getting displaced in my pelvis when that happened (my pelvis really hurt).
Let's say that you are physically hurt. That is quite possible. Also remember that the hurt is real it is not in your mind. Accept this as such. Now just as you were able to see in your mind's eye that something was displaced see also that it is going to heal. It may take time but it WILL HEAL. The body is marvellous that way. If you need to take painkillers go ahead and take them. DO NOT feel guilty about it coz that doesn't help at all. Don't fight any healing by thinking negatively. Don't fear the pain. Remember sometimes even a small paper cut can take a long time to heal. It doesn't help to focus too much on the pain. Read Sarno regularly and journal regularly. Give yourself some time, go on your holiday in July and enjoy yourself. I think that you will be much better by then
See how things go and take it one step at a time. Evaluate the situation once again and take it from there.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 05/31/2008 04:02:04 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2008 : 09:06:46
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But this dull ache reminds me of how things were last year when my pelvis and spine were apparently mis-aligned. Plus my neck and shoulders feel extremely stiff and painful and I can't seem to make it go away.
The key word here is "apparently". Dr. Sarno addresses this belief about chiropractors somewhere in his work, saying that it really doesn't make so much sense to think that we can misalign ourselves that easily. Even if something does look 'off' to us it may just be tight muscles, a standard TMS effect.
I don't think you should go back if it is to get adjusted. (Some people have GPs who are DOs so if you are going back for a general checkup that would be a different issue.) It sounds to me like you still need to think through and change your approach to pain to line up better with the Sarno concepts. This is a long-term change in how you think of pain. It's very common to experience some pain recurrence when you first start up activiites that you stopped due to pain, like exercising. It is a result of conditioning.
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Because often his treatments will give me some initial pain -- worse than the pain I came in with. After a few weeks, the pain gets better and disappears. It's a process of re-aligning things, apparently.
Re-read this and tell me if it doesn't sound like frank nonsense to you when you really think about it. :)
If I were you I would explore some feelings about your upcoming vacation (nervousness about recurrence) and about your husband's feelings about you going to this doctor (it sounds like he would blame you if things went wrong, and if I were you that would be a possible source of rage for me).
You keep talking about being worried about having injured yourself from the fall, but I gather that you had some acute pain and it faded away, and then this pain came after you started exercising, much later. If you had hurt yourself in the fall, most likely the pain wouldn't have taken this long to show up, though not being a doctor obviously I can't say either way for sure.
As I said, I think you still have a ways to go in reprogramming yourself to think of things in Sarno terms. There's nothing wrong with that -- it takes a while -- but recognize that the reason you're getting tied up in knots is that you're trying to simultaneously think of things both ways, physical and Sarno, and that just doesn't work. You've gotta commit to changing how you think.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2008 : 10:41:08
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If you are still considering physical treatments, then clearly you have not fully accepted that the symptoms are psychogenic. This is step 1, so until you can conquer this, you cannot expect to banish the symptoms.
Unfortunately you cannot have it both ways. If you go back to the osteopath then your feet will be firmly planted back in the physical realm. If this is the path you wish to take, so be it, but then you should abandon TMS treatment because it is 100% incompatible with physical treatments.
Many people fall into the trap of assuming that they can treat some symptoms as TMS but others as physical problems. This misses the entire point of the theory.
Of course, everything is not TMS, but given your description of the symptoms, it seems likely that you are just perpetuating the symptoms by continuing to think physical.
Since you did have a fall, you should definitely rule out a fracture if you have not already done so. Frankly I don't know why you waited so long. Go get an X-Ray. Maybe it will put your mind at ease and you'll be able to resume TMS treatment. |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2008 : 15:24:25
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You're all right. I guess I can't have it both ways, can I? Either I'm totally in the TMS camp or I'm not. Doubt is the hardest thing to overcome in this "syndrome." If I hadn't fallen, there would be less doubt (or perhaps no doubt) in my mind if my back started hurting upon resuming exercise, because I would be able to say very emphatically, that "there is nothing wrong with my back." Under the circumstances -- well, I'm not sure!
Dave you have a good point - perhaps I should get an X-ray or MRI sooner just to put my mind at ease that I haven't done any real physical damage. It will help me to erase the doubt and help me to move forward with my TMS treatment. Instead of calling the Osteopath, I will call the Orthopedist to get an MRI referral. (But I need to fortify myself against the "herniated disc" crap he will probably spew at me).
Interstingly, this morning it hurts a lot less -- very negligible. I was reading more of my Power of Now book after I woke up this morning. In reading, it dawned on me that my workout at the gym yesterday was NOT a positive experience because I had made it stressful. I had gone to the gym too late in the day to enjoy a leisurely workout. I had made bad choices earlier in the day and had not planned my time wisely. So I was rushed at the gym, and I stayed there later than I should have, which resulted in me rushing to school to pick up my kids -- 25 minutes late (bad Mom!!)
Leaving the gym I felt tense instead of relaxed. When I got to school, I found out that my daughter had not liked her lunch and hadn't really eaten it, so she was starving hungry, had no snacks in her lunchbag, and was very angry at me for being so late.
It's not my fault that she didn't eat her lunch -- it's not my fault that she was so hungry. However, my lateness did impact her and caused her to suffer. And I suffered -- my workout was not good, the drive home from the gym was rushed and tense. I sat in bed this morning realizing that maybe my back hurts because I feel guilty, both because of hurting her AND hurting myself -- not allowing myself to enjoy my time at the gym (it was the first time I'd been the gym in months -- my previous exercise this month had been done at home). I had been very apprehensive about going back to the gym, and in essense I sabotaged it, didn't I?
So I sat there thinking about it -- how I'd made myself suffer -- and why? The simple answer was fear, and this whole symdrome just feeding on itself. Fear and conditioning. I had let my mind create another distraction. I apologized to myself and later to my daughter, and then "let it go" so to speak....
So this afternoon my back doesn't really hurt as much -- barely at all. I haven't taken any Advil. I find this all very interesting. If I had a bad structual problem, I couldn't "think it away", could I?
As to whether the Osteopath really does anything concrete for me -- I'm truly not sure if it's real or a placebo effect. It's a 30 mile half-hour drive each way to his office, so seeing him is expensive and time-consuming -- another reason why I'm hesitating.
Yes, I HAVE been tying myself up in knots, but I'm trying so hard to untangle this mess and recover. One step forward, two steps back -- but I do think I'm on the right path. It's hard to change my thinking, but it's not impossible. I just have to work at it every day. It's so hard sometimes, because the "conditioning" has become so automatic. Reading that book has helped, as well as re-reading my Sarno books. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2008 : 05:58:13
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It sounds like you're going through a rough time right now. I hope you can cut yourself a few breaks and give yourself the benefit of the doubt for the time being while you work through this.
Did you know that in some families its normal to support people no matter what? You just get the support no matter what you're going through or whos fault it is etc... you get it just because you exist. The reason I say this is because in your posts there seems to be an underlying issue that you're blaming yourself for being in pain. You are already in pain, the last thing you need is to be blamed for it!! You actually need more love and support while you're in pain.
Hang in there!!
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 01:13:36
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Thanks for saying this, John, about families where one gets supported just for existing.
Part of letting myself off the hook is to let others off the hook. To let everyone be where they are in their understanding, experimenting with their own universe in their own way. As soon as I start thinking I know better than someone else about their own situation, I get into a sickness that is probably worse than my alleged bad back.
I don't bother to ask anyone's advice about things like "should I go to my osteopath with this situation" because one half of my associates, who are quite amazing, will say yes, of course, and the people here will mostly say, no, of course not. But there is a third answer and it comes from deep inside me and I'm getting better at hearing/feeling/knowing it.
And it differs from one day to another. Truth meanders like a river, for me.
And I'm doing grrreeeaat!
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 02:09:38
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Well I've been oscillating a lot this weekend between "go see someone" and "just keep living and see no one." Between "I dunno, it feels like something's out of place at the bottom of my spine" and "Nahh, it's just muscular and it will pass." It changes hourly (she says, rolling her eyes...)
Constantly "scanning" the area. Very unhealthy. But I suppose I'm "scanning" because a couple of weeks ago there was no pain, and now there is pain, and I keep hoping the pain will go away. Every scan gets the process going again, where my brain says, "uh oh...." Argh!!!
I really appreciate everyone's replies. Frankly I can't stand being in a situation like this -- such a grey area. I've never been very good with grey areas!
I'm just going to try to concentrate on all the things I want and need to do in this coming week. Keep reading my books, playing my guitar, and going to the gym -- just try to stop thinking so much about this "predicament" and be more in the "now."
I hate to admit, thinking about this predicament consumed most of my mental energy today -- huge step backward for me. But I guess it's a process. You're right that I should cut myself some slack. I've always been very hard on myself (classic TMS perfectionist).
I guess deep down I don't feel that I've had a "great day" unless it was a "pain free day." I realize now that that's too rigid. Perhaps a better approach it to accept that the pain is there, try to figure out if it's there for an emotional reason for it, have confidence that it will heal, and just get on with my life as best I can. |
Edited by - positivevibes on 06/02/2008 02:12:12 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 08:31:23
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quote:
Originally posted by positivevibes
I hate to admit, thinking about this predicament consumed most of my mental energy today -- huge step backward for me.
You see how the distraction is working. With your mental energy focused on the symptoms, your unconscious mind has achieved its goal.
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I guess deep down I don't feel that I've had a "great day" unless it was a "pain free day."
Again, this puts the emphasis on the symptoms, even if in a roundabout way. You are consumed with the pain.
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Perhaps a better approach it to accept that the pain is there, try to figure out if it's there for an emotional reason for it, have confidence that it will heal, and just get on with my life as best I can.
That says it all. Clearly, you know what to do, but for whatever reason, unable to commit. When you are aware of the symptoms, repeat this last phrase to yourself, and follow it. Don't try to track your level of pain, it is counterproductive and feeds right into the hands of the TMS gremlin. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 08:39:56
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Dave, I appreciate your patient willingness to spell it all out for us consistently.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 12:57:16
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quote:
Frankly I can't stand being in a situation like this -- such a grey area. I've never been very good with grey areas!
It's good practice! :) I suck at grey areas too, but my therapist wisely says that if you're in the "don't know" then that's where you are, and you just have to keep living and learning there until one day you're not there anymore.
I think my sig is relevant here. You don't know 100%, so it's a gray area, but acting like you believe can be a big boost to your actual belief and to your action. You acknowledge the uncertainty, but stop entertaining the doubts and letting them fester in your head.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 19:43:08
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One of my favorite mentors once said "I like "I don't know""
What he meant was that from the place of I don't know, you can actually start to learn about yourself, or someone else, or anything because at that point you begin to take in the evidence and evaulate things for yourself. "I don't know" is a much better place to be than those who think they know and are way wrong!! |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2008 : 21:01:49
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You might want to take some time and think about what the sinus infection was doing FOR you that the pain is now doing. I know that - four plus years after curing myself of TMS pain in the neck/shoulders etc. - my mindbody's way of getting my attention is to sideline me with a severe sinus infection.
If I'm that sick, literally bedridden, then I have a legitimate reason to be "lazy" and "selfish." Or, to look at it from the id's point of view, from the subconscious's point of view, it's telling the perfectionist and goodist super ego, "**** off. I'm resting. I'm watching stupid TV. I'm laying around and not doing a damn thing I should be doing - cooking, cleaning, working - because I don't HAVE to do anything. I'm sick."
I can't remember who originated the term "American meditation" on here, maybe Tennis Tom...but I definitely believe we all need a little "American meditation" now and then in the form of an upper respiratory bug. How else to get that Protestant work ethic off our backs so we can watch some guilt free TV or maybe just watch the wallpaper? And when that's gone, when we heal from that bug and have no more "excuses" for avoiding our duties, well, that's a prime time for the mindbody to throw a little fit and start back up with some pain.
Your post talks a lot about structural stuff. Start digging into your thoughts and feelings around the time of this incident, and how you feel now; and I bet the pain and discomfort will go.
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Thinking of going back to my osteopath, not sure
