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positivevibes
204 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2008 : 14:08:14
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I found a new orthopedist (recommended by a friend) and got a new MRI this week. I decided to get a new MRI for various reasons:
1. I haven't had an MRI in 3 years, since before this latest back pain problem
2. Dr. Schechter told me that if I go down to LA to see him, I should have a recent MRI
3. I'm really curious about "what's going on" structually in my back, especially since I took that hard fall last month (I stumbled and fell in a parking lot in early May)
When I gave the orthopedist my MRI results from 3 years ago, he looked at it and said exactly what I expected him to say: "herniated discs, osteo-arthritis, cortisone shots needed" He added "spinal stenosis" which nobody had mentioned to me earlier.
Anyway, I got the MRI done this past week and am supposed to follow up with him this coming Thursday. But I'm considering postponing the appointment because I leave for a Caribbean vacation with my family four days later. If this doctor gives me a diagnosis of doom and gloom, it could potentially ruin my vacation because I will have a very hard time putting his diagnosis out of my mind. You guys know how this works....I'm trying so hard to stay on the Sarno program and I'm scared his words will de-rail me to some extent.
I'm thinking about waiting to follow up with him until after I get back from my trip, so that I'll be (hopefully) more relaxed and clear-headed.
On another related note.....
What does Dr. Sarno say about cortisone injections? I was very against it last year and have never had epidural cortisone. From what I've read, it only provides a good benefit if you have referred sciatic pain, which I do not. But I'm wondering...if TMS is partly caused by a faulty nervous system reaction, couldn't getting cortisone help to calm down the nerves and "break the cycle," so to speak -- to work alongside the "brain work" I'm doing as part of Dr. Sarno's program? Or am I totally in left field with that theory?
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You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
Edited by - positivevibes on 06/22/2008 23:53:09 |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 20:49:10
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Hi PV,
Today I talked to my 33 year old daughter, who's had severe back pain and sciatica for several years now, which her doctor had blamed on the herniated disc that shows up on her MRI, but for some reason the back pain has diminished to almost nothing, except for occasional flare-ups, while she's developed almost daily "tension" headaches with nausea and 3 to 4 migraine headaches each week. Her personality totally fits the TMS profile, so I'm sure her subconscious just decided to switch symptoms on her. But her doctor is now saying that the herniated disc has partially healed and that's why she's not having back pain, which doesn't really make sense to me. If it healed, why would there sometimes be flare-ups? Either it protrudes enough to press on the nerves or it doesn't, right?
When you say that TMS is "partly caused by a faulty nervous system reaction..." do you mean that you see it as a malfunction in the nervous system or are you referring to the way that the unconscious brain can control the nervous system to create pain? Just curious, because I'm not sure exactly what you meant. But I can tell you that I had cortisone injections in my thumb joint when it was causing me a lot of pain, and the cortisone did help, temporarily, even though I later realized that the thumb pain was totally TMS. I stopped getting it when I read Dr. Sarno's book. Maybe it was a placebo effect that made the cortisone injections work for a little while. The thumb and hand pain I used to have sometimes tries to come back when I'm feeling a lot of stress, but it's one of the symptoms I can "think away."
Hope you have a great vacation! |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 23:47:07
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I suppose what I mean when I say that it's a nervous system problem, is that somehow the autonomic nervous system mis-interprets things, causing pain where there should not be any pain (because no real injury occurred aside from possibly some mild oxygen deprivation, as Dr. Sarno mentions). This is how Dr. Schechter explains it in his audio lectures. That's part of TMS -- re-training your body to react differently by using the power of your mind. I was just wondering -- IF cortisone shots take away the pain (even temporarily), could it be helpful in re-training your mind and body -- "short circuiting" the pain, so to speak.
I plan to do a LOT of thinking before saying YES to the cortisone. My doc last year wanted me to have it and I refused, trying other things instead. Now, I'm wavering on it.
Last year when my pain first began and was excruciating (severe muscle spasms all over my lower back) the ER gave me 5 days of Prednisone and that worked like a miracle. Between that, Hydrocodone, and Mobic (an NSAID), I was in absoultely no pain at all for several days, which enabled me to rest and get my muscles calmed down. (Once I got off the drugs of course it was a different story). So I wonder about the cortisone...yet, I'm reluctant to have it shot into my back.
My new orthopedist said, "Seventeen years ago, I had a problem similar to yours and had cortisone shots, and the pain never came back." (Under my breath, I murmured "Hmmp...I should be so lucky!")
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You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 04:36:29
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If you look up member "salamander" on this board, he suffered from back pain that took his active lifestyle away.
He was diagnosed w/ degenerative changes, discs, and spondylolisthesis w/ an mri.
His turning point came when the dr. pulled out an mri he had for something unrelated to back pain 10 yrs prior when he had no back pain and compared the two. The dr. told him he could find no significant difference. He had the spondy and all the disc situations then too.
Not sure if he had sarno knowledge pre or post, but he figured if he had no pain b4, why now?
Also, he realized he had many tms symptoms thru-out his life. He made a full recovery, not overnight though.
Would'nt it be great to get the dr. to tell you the same? Theres no difference in your mri from 3 yrs ago b4 you go on vacay?
Maybe it'll show better. Maybe there will be some insiginificant age marks that the doc will say, ah, here we go, this is why you have pain. And that could haunt you.
Dr.'s words are powerful. Very powerful. The words, the facial expressions. The body language. When they're looking at a picture of your spine, you cling to their every judgement.
And it depends on what you say. Are you preparing him/her for a positive, negative response? If you go in there showing pain, then he's gonna find something to let you know your'e not crazy. He is then trained to send you to PT, and say something like if that doe'snt work, you may be a surgical canidate. If you hid your pain, and said you feel you've been on the mend since the fall, and your family felt an mri w/b smart just in case, he's likely to compare the 2 scans (from before) and say yup, just a sprain, follow up in 30 days, take tylenol.
The report would show anything serious anyways.
Tough call what to do about pre or post vacay. Perhaps, go on the vacay. Call the dr. office, tell them you'll come in after the vacay for the checkup and that your'e feeling fine right now. Could the dr. simply check the mri report for anything you s/b concerend about b4 you go and give you a call? If you dont get the call, I would bet all is well.
Then you go bk to the dr.s, the mood is light, he says "how was the vacay"?, you have some light banter, he sees you're looking fine. And the whole thing would be set up for a "no big deal" visit. IMO The dr. is gonna give you the mood, bodylanguage, and words he feels you want to hear so he can move on to the next patient.
Good luck w/ what you decide to do. |
Edited by - skizzik on 06/23/2008 04:37:14 |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:32:48
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Interestingly enough, even though I was telling the doc that I had rather insignificant pain (more of a vague feeling of discomfort in my very low back/pelvis), he was pushing for the cortisone shots right out of the gate. He said, "The shots will have you feeling better really soon." Even though I was trying to tell him that I didn't feel really awful. He was just looking at my old MRI and making conclusions from that.
When I see him again, depending on how I feel, I'm going to drive home the fact that I'm NOT in excruciating pain or anything. I may eventually get the cortisone shots, but I'm in no hurry to do it.
**********
You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
Edited by - positivevibes on 06/23/2008 12:34:15 |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 15:39:52
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Its hard to know what to do. I got a cortisone shot about 6 weeks ago, a occipital nerve block and it really didn't help me. I know some people say they work where as others say they didn't work, I guess it depends on the doctor, the problem and the person. Some people so believe that when the doctor says it'll help that it does ya know.
If they find something on your MRI that says you would be a candidate for surgery would you have it?
I'm just curious if most structural stuff on MRI's are not pain causing according to TMS's doctors why do they want a MRI? I was under the impressions they could diagnose TMS by feeling your tender points?
Sometimes its so hard to know what to do. |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 15:48:52
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quote:
Originally posted by LuvtoSew
Its hard to know what to do. I got a cortisone shot about 6 weeks ago, a occipital nerve block and it really didn't help me. I know some people say they work where as others say they didn't work, I guess it depends on the doctor, the problem and the person. Some people so believe that when the doctor says it'll help that it does ya know.
If they find something on your MRI that says you would be a candidate for surgery would you have it?
I'm just curious if most structural stuff on MRI's are not pain causing according to TMS's doctors why do they want a MRI? I was under the impressions they could diagnose TMS by feeling your tender points?
Sometimes its so hard to know what to do.
Yes, it can be VERY confusing. I'm driving my poor husband crazy with my confusion.
I'd think LONG and HARD before agreeing to surgery. I don't want anyone cutting into my back, because I think it can be a crap shoot. Some people get better and some people get much worse. God help me if I wound up on the losing side of that equation.
I suppose TMS docs want to see an MRI to rule out anything is considered to be absolutely structrual, like scoliosis pressing on an organ, or fractured discs/bones, or tumors.
I am very curious about how Dr. Schechter diagnoses TMS. I do think I have the "tender points." The challenge for me will be removing ALL DOUBT so I can totally immerse myself in the Sarno method. That's why I'm getting the MRI. It's a double-edged sword. On one hand, I expect to hear some bad news from the orthopedist. And on the other hand, I'm hoping that Dr. Schechter will be able to tell me (and convince me) that it's all in my head.
Sigh....taking a pill is so much easier than trying to change your way of thinking.
**********
You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
Edited by - positivevibes on 06/23/2008 15:50:43 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by positivevibes
What does Dr. Sarno say about cortisone injections?
If you don't know the answer you may need a refresher 
Your mind is clearly focused in the physical realm right now. |
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 11:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by positivevibes
What does Dr. Sarno say about cortisone injections?
If you don't know the answer you may need a refresher
Your mind is clearly focused in the physical realm right now.
Actually, I was re-reading HBP, and in that book Sarno says that cortisone can provide temporary relief but he isn't sure why that occurs.
Top of page 129, where he talks about treatments to combat inflammation:
"With one excpetion. Steroids (so-called cortisone drugs) will reduce or banish the symptoms of TMS temporarily in many patients. I do not know how or why this happens. I see these people when the pain returns; they have TMS -- and they usually respond to treatment with permanent resolution of symptoms."
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You are not your mind; you are not your thoughts. The incessant mental noise [of your thoughts] creates a false mind-made self that causes fear and suffering and prevents you from connecting with your true self and living in the Now. - Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now |
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Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 09:08:44
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I don't know if this will help you but:
In the spring of 2001 - after three years of chronic neck/shoulder pain often punctuated with severe spasms that would make me cry because it hurt to even breathe while waiting for them to subside (I thought the pain started with a car accident but it was 100% TMS that I later cured myself) - I was desperate for relief. I visited an anesthesiologist/chronic pain doctor who recommended I get nerve blocks in my cervical spine.
The diagnostic tests he performed, inserting needles into the cervical nerves and temporarily deadening them, showed that the procedure "should" work. The diagnostic procedures, both of them, were HELLISH. The needles hurt horribly. But I told myself it would all be worth it when I got the real nerve block and the pain went away.
Well, my insurance company then dropped a bomb on me. They had approved the diagnostics but all of a sudden said they weren't going to approve the actual procedure. I was furious. I disputed it. They won. I was depressed. I struggled on for another year, using alternative treatments like myotherapy (which didn't work). And finally, out of desperation, I listened when someone on a message board suggested I look into Sarno's work.
Yes, the pain I had was intermittently excruciating. Maybe the nerve block would have helped. But, truly, the insurance company penny pinchers did me a favor by refusing to pay for it. I was able to, mostly on my own, with Sarno's books, Lee's "Facing the Fire", a lot of journaling, and a little psychotherapy to become 70% pain free within two months and 100% pain free within 8 mos. of first picking up The Mindbody Prescription.
I know your situation may be a little different than mine. But I found it to be necessary and very liberating to ditch the "docs" from the onset of my TMS work. I wrote letters to both my chiro and myotherapist telling them that I had found instantaneous and significant relief with TMBP and was going to proceed to heal completely without them. I threw out anything that reminded me of my past bondage to the medical world, such as my "TENS" machine, special pillows, stretching exercise instruction sheets etc.
I see people on the board (it's not necessarily you that I'm talking about here) who continue to see their chiros, accupuncturists etc. and I think that this sends a big, neon sign to the subconscious that nothing really has changed.
I know it helped me to break free from all those treatment providers and also to take up an exercise program that had nothing to do with rehabilitation, and which, in fact, flew in the face of what I'd been told "not" to do, including bike riding again and taking downhill ski lessons for the first time in my life.
Maybe it's time to tell the ortho bye-bye... |
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hottm8oh
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 10:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Logan
I know your situation may be a little different than mine. But I found it to be necessary and very liberating to ditch the "docs" from the onset of my TMS work. I wrote letters to both my chiro and myotherapist telling them that I had found instantaneous and significant relief with TMBP and was going to proceed to heal completely without them. I threw out anything that reminded me of my past bondage to the medical world, such as my "TENS" machine, special pillows, stretching exercise instruction sheets etc.
I see people on the board (it's not necessarily you that I'm talking about here) who continue to see their chiros, accupuncturists etc. and I think that this sends a big, neon sign to the subconscious that nothing really has changed.
I know it helped me to break free from all those treatment providers and also to take up an exercise program that had nothing to do with rehabilitation, and which, in fact, flew in the face of what I'd been told "not" to do, including bike riding again and taking downhill ski lessons for the first time in my life.
Maybe it's time to tell the ortho bye-bye...
I agree about breaking the doctor cycle. It can be very hard, but it is a necessary step in the process.
I spent 7 years giving a lot of time and money to a very nice chiropractor who truly tried to help me. I stopped seeing him in April. Sometimes I find myself fighting off the urge to go back. I find myself trying to crack my own spine every now and then, but I'm slowly breaking that habit and I know I will not go back to the chiro ever again. In May I canceled all of my physical therapy appointments. My physical therapy doctor called me to see how I was doing. I told him my problem was psychosomatic, and he accepted it and was glad to hear my pain was starting to subside. In fact, he's part of the reason why I started reading about TMS. He told me I shouldn't be in pain and that there was something else going on with me. I found Sarno at the library the next day.
At first I got mad at all of my misdiagnoses, but now I feel for the most part that everyone wanted to help me and they did the best they could with the knowledge that they had at the time. That's one of the reasons why it's so hard to break the conditioning. When you hear doctor after doctor tell you that your problem *is* structural, and those highly educated accomplished doctors all truly believe that your problem is structural, it's hard to dismiss it. One of the things I do is to keep reminding myself that I have NEVER fit the structural diagnosis profile. Test after test has shown nothing physically wrong with me yet I still had these severe symptoms. A dozen different doctors couldn't put my symptoms and test results into a nicely packaged fool-proof diagnosis. Yet I am TEXTBOOK TMS. I finally fit the profile. I have validation that it's OK to let all of those other theories go. |
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Decided to postpone orthopedist followup
