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Shamrock
26 Posts |
 Posted - 09/24/2008 : 08:31:39
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I'm getting deeper into emotions with my therapist. Most of what I've heard in my years of therapy (not TMS-related) has said that usually sadness and despair are emotions that lie underneath anger and rage. I think Sarno and/or some of the other docs mention this in TDM.
Whenever I go deep emotionally, some anger comes out, but deeper sadness and fear feels more "core." I feel a resistance to hanging my emotional work on rage as the core.
I'd love to hear anyone's personal experiences on this.
Thanks.
- S |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 11:55:41
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Hey Shammy.
Rage = intense anger. If we dissect anger a lot of times, fear is underneath. Fear sums up despair.
Sadness is still one of the "big 4", anger, sadness, fear, guilt, but some feel that when those 4 are dissected they usually can come back to fear. So I wouldn't discount fear as the core emotion. It is a big one.
Still, I wouldn't get too hung up on a particular term. Let come out what needs to in whatever form it is. If you're angry, pound a pillow and scream. Sad: then cry. Whatever it is, try to go underneath it to see if there's something else there. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't this time; or, for now. It's best not to overthink it.
-Lori |
Edited by - mizlorinj on 09/24/2008 11:57:20 |
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2008 : 02:40:44
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maybe you're right about fear being the core. the neocortex is built on top of a lizard brain after all.
---
author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2008 : 22:31:34
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I often think about this. The geological strata of core emotions. Even though we have a lizard brain, fear isn't the only survival emotion after all.
Right now I'm having some core fear issues due to some traumatic events. In trying to get through them to underlying rage, I'm finding that it seems more empty than that. Terrifying. Core fear of the Void or Godness or something.
I wish I just felt like beating the crap out of something.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 03:38:11
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alright i'm starting to think it's rage at the bottom. rage is what gets stuff done in the psyche. levels things out. once the anger comes out that seems to bring peace. after i get angry i generally don't feel like doing much else and i can get on with things.
er.. hm. this is kind of interesting. because i've done rage ... into grief. but that was only because i felt like there was something wrong with me for being so pissed off. now that i don't think that way anymore rage just ends where it ends usually. not so much grief anymore.
and any time i've been in fear it's always led to rage, which in turn may or may not have led to grief depending on my self esteem. so i wouldn't say fear is the basement, as far as getting anything done goes. by "done" i mean resolving conflict.
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author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 03:41:37
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oh i know what you mean by that whole "void" thing and.. did you mean godless? maybe that's what you meant. yeah it's like a soul vacuum. that's the lowest stage i think. painful stuff. it usually means it's time to stop pushing yourself so hard / beating yourself up. kinda the same thing.
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author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 15:07:53
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For me the emotions are layed as: first fear (of the rage), then deeper the rage itself, then below that profound sadness.
Since my TMS is caused by the fear of the rage, i've gone about this by going through the fear and rage and sadness. I can say it is the fear of the rage because I can directly see that I am less fearful now of the rage then when I started intensively working on this stuff a few years ago.
I believe that the most important aspect of my recovery of TMS is
challenging that fear of the rage and experientially seeing that I can survive it. |
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westcoastram
97 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 18:47:40
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Maybe it's best to envision our unconscious as a piece of marble. What you'll see is streaks of different emotions that go top to bottom while sometimes they're layered under each other at certain spots, sometimes they run parallel. Many of these streaks are are varying shades of the same color.
Grief, rage, anger, sadness, guilt, shame, pain, all contribute to this well of conflict.
Oftentimes they're connected, if you have anger, you have sadness. If you have rage, you have shame.
Perhaps the question isn't what is underlying this emotion, it is where are the other emotions - because they're there.
I'd like to share a bit of my own work in psychosomatic research too. There is a theory out there that insight into our own emotional world, particularly into our emotional pain is in fact a minor act of surrender. When we have insight, into our pain, into the memories of our emotional scars, we have capitulated, we have made a small surrender to this emotion of which our resistance has been fighting. These acts of surrender are fleeting, perhaps it only happens once, or in therapy, and over time, especially if things are going well or we are distracted, we build those defenses back up. I am starting to believe that fuller acts of surrender, practicing the act of surrender, accepting these emotions (that doesn't mean we have to act out from them) is essential to our emotional (and more importantly here) our physical pain.
I've been meditating - five minutes a day - about this kind of surrender and it has been very beneficial.
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2008 : 15:37:02
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okay so today it went like this:
first i was afraid... my fear usually leads to anger. so i got really angry. then i got extremely sad and felt a real self-esteem blow. man i felt like crap. then it was about shaking off that shame and sadness. once all that was said and done and i didn't feel like there was anything "wrong" with me anymore i was just kind of tired. it's kind of a big mess, but this is the framework of lack of self acceptance for me it seems. all that fuss because i was tired. i feel fine now. just kinda sleepy. so i'm gonna go take a nap. peace
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author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 10:37:48
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quote:
Originally posted by scottjmurray
okay so today it went like this:
first i was afraid... my fear usually leads to anger. so i got really angry. then i got extremely sad and felt a real self-esteem blow. man i felt like crap. then it was about shaking off that shame and sadness. once all that was said and done and i didn't feel like there was anything "wrong" with me anymore i was just kind of tired. it's kind of a big mess, but this is the framework of lack of self acceptance for me it seems. all that fuss because i was tired. i feel fine now. just kinda sleepy. so i'm gonna go take a nap. peace
Hey Scott,
I wonder if the tiredness is kind of like that pleasant tiredness you feel after a long workout. Sounds like you were doing a lot of emotional work and releasing some feelings.
I appreciate all the posts on this topic!
Carbar |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 12:15:13
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One thing I got out of "facing the fire" wether it's true or not is the author states that you have to get thru a layer of anger in order to get to the sadness. Certain people anyways.
If you look at Logan's success story here you'll see that she got 75% better on Sarno knowledge alone. But reading this other book convinced her to do anger release excercises. She did these for 6 weeks or so and then found herself constantly crying for a month or so, and then realized she was 100% Pain free. It's as if she got thru the anger and released the stored sadness.
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 16:16:44
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quote:
If you look at Logan's success story here you'll see that she got 75% better on Sarno knowledge alone. But reading this other book convinced her to do anger release excercises. She did these for 6 weeks or so and then found herself constantly crying for a month or so, and then realized she was 100% Pain free. It's as if she got thru the anger and released the stored sadness.
this is what i'm in the middle of.
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author of tms-recovery . com
(not sh!t, champagne)
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 19:46:15
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| everyone is different. everyone. i don't think emotions - repressed or otherwise - have any kind of strict hierarchy or bottom-up/top-down structure. i also think anger and sadness are so closely linked that if you have enough of one, you're going to have the other, so what's the point in trying to measure the amount or each emotion and/or where it lives? the critical thing - and the most difficult - is feeling them, which it sounds like you're doing. keep up the good work. |
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Emotions deeper than rage?
