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 Too much focus on pain holding me (and others) up?
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  11:50:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There seem to have been a few posts recently from people who aren’t making the recovery they expected and something has occurred to me that may be of help. I’m not quite as pain-free as I was last week and I think I know why that is; so I thought it might be worth mentioning it in case it applies to anyone else.

I’ve had back and sciatic pain (plus lots of other areas of pain from time to time) for 42 years. Although there’s no doubt that it has interfered with my life to some extent, I have managed to avoid letting it restrict me any more than necessary, mostly by using traditional pain management techniques – pacing, relaxation, exercises and so on. But the most successful way I’ve limited the impact of my pain on my life has been through ‘distraction’, not allowing my pain to take centre stage, telling it that it’s not the most important thing in my life. In fact I try not to tell anyone about my ‘dodgy back’ unless it’s absolutely necessary and then I tell them I’d prefer that they ask me ‘how’s the teaching?’ or ‘how’s the painting?’ rather than ‘how’s your back?’

And here’s the conundrum with the ‘Sarno treatment’! I’m fully in favour of the method but a difficulty has arisen for me - and maybe for others? By aiming to become painfree or even see a significant drop in my pain levels, I am constantly monitoring my pain!!! Even though I’m doing my best to talk to my brain and ‘think psychological, not physical’ there are inevitably those moments before I start to ‘think psychological’ when I’m more aware of pain that I would normally ignore or ‘switch off’ from. So in some ways, I feel as if at times I have more pain than previously.

In fact, I think that just reading the word ‘pain’ so much more frequently than usual is having a negative effect on my progress!

Obviously I’m not referring to really severe pain that simply won’t be ignored. But, as pain is so subjective and difficult, if not impossible, to measure, it may be that what I’ve gradually learned to ignore over so many years may not be so very different from what a person with relatively recent pain is experiencing? I’m not sure how I can ‘heal my backpain’ successfully while focusing on it when previously I’ve ‘coped’ pretty well by taking the spotlight off it?

So if anyone has any thoughts on this, I’d be very glad to hear them and it might be relevant to some at least of the people who have posted that they aren’t making any progress.

One ‘tool’ I’ve successfully employed to manage my pain, and would recommend to others is tapping into the body’s natural painkillers, endorphins, especially through Laughter Therapy and listening to music. But I’m not sure whether this would be regarded as a ‘crutch’ and therefore counterproductive to Dr Sarno’s treatment? Any thoughts?

Hillbilly

USA
385 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  13:04:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How much time are you spending on this forum? That is a good place to start. Get out of here and live. That sounds harsh, but you wouldn't ever have logged on here if you weren't in pain, so now that you know you have to get on with your life for it to resolve, isn't coming on a pain forum counterproductive and paradoxical to the intent of your post?

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.

Ralph Waldo Emerson
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marsha

252 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  13:37:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Flutterby,
I have had an ongoing relationship with TMS since I was sixteen years old. So that would make it forty nine years for me.
Recently I posted the question on this forum about the benefit of knowing about TMS and received some very insightful replies. I believe that it is still posted on this current page. Before I knew about TMS I seemed to get through my symptoms and have periods of relief.
I met Dr. Sarno in 1999 for the first time. After my initial visit and lectures with him it took about seven months for me to be pain free. I had relapse about two years ago and am having much difficulty recovering from this episode.
My second visit was on October of 2008. It was good to get his reinforcement. There was nothing that new and all the information I needed was in his books. I could probably give his lecture myself.

I believe you are correct about the PAIN focus. It has been my goal in the past few days to stumble through my episodes of pain and continue with my day the best I can. It isn’t always easy. The busier I am the better and the less involved I am with the slightest thought about TMS the better my day.
It seems for me the pain has the power. My goal is not to fight it (I believe the fight fuel the pain) but to keep myself as busy and as focused as I can. I am also an artist and when I am involved with my work I have no pain.
Being involved with this TMS forum has been very helpful to me. But at times I think it involves me too much with my own suffering. I am encouraged and happy for those who recover in a matter of weeks but I also am upset that it isn’t me. That is not a good thing and I believe increases my physical pain.
So, what to do? I have no idea other than to keep the positive thinking and continue living. AND NOT FOCUS ON TMS ALL DAY LONG.

Marsha
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pandamonium

United Kingdom
202 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2009 :  14:30:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I’m not sure how I can ‘heal my backpain’ successfully while focusing on it when previously I’ve ‘coped’ pretty well by taking the spotlight off it?


You haven't coped with it, you've kept a lid on it and tried to ignore it which is good and fine (you need to get on with your life)except that you are no closer to understanding what's caused your TMS, you haven't explored the issues yet.

Using endorphins is treating the symptoms, not the cause of the symptoms. Again, it's good to use those therapies as a painkiller when things are bad, but you'll never rid yourself of TMS that way...

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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's...
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  02:24:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your responses – they have shown me that I didn’t express myself very clearly in my original post. I rambled too much as usual so I’ll try again!

What I was getting at was that one of the possible reasons why some of us seem to be in more pain when we were expecting to reduce our symptoms, just might be because, in order to understand and fully take on board the concept of TMS, we are inevitably focusing more on our pain than we had done hitherto. This would be especially true of people like myself who had previously ‘coped with’ or ‘managed’ their pain pretty well by, as Pandamonium says, ‘keeping the lid on it’.

I hope this is clearer now.

Another possible reason, of course, is that, as someone suggested to me, the brain might be fighting back, trying even harder than usual to distract us from uncovering the emotional underpinnings of our pain.

Hillbilly – I do understand what you are saying, and up to a point, I agree with you. I have actually been tempted to do what you suggest in the past few days as I have a lot of other things to be getting on with. But in my case that would be going back to ‘keeping the lid on it’ at this early stage so I am continuing to work my way through the various links that people have kindly posted whenever I can. But I am wondering whether at some point this could become counter-productive – I think there must be a very fine line involved somewhere there!

Also, I have great admiration for and gratitude towards all those who stick around on the forum to help others once they no longer need to for their own sakes. If everyone did as you suggest, where would we go for encouragement and information?!

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crk

124 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  10:07:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby


Another possible reason, of course, is that, as someone suggested to me, the brain might be fighting back, trying even harder than usual to distract us from uncovering the emotional underpinnings of our pain.



This relates to something I have been thinking about lately. Let me know if this makes any sense. While the brain does indeed want to fight any focus on the Reservoir of Rage, it cannot completely shut that down because SOMETHING in one's life right now is feeding on it or feeding into it - or both. So if one says to the pain, "Ok, go ahead. Show me the way," then one might be able see mentally unhealthy patterns or habits and work to correct them. These mentally unhealthy problems are things like: living for the approval of others, self-hatred and self-criticism, hopelessness, perfectionism, etc. Getting back to the Fighting Brain in the quote, maybe the brain's strategy accomplishes the immediate goal of hiding unacceptable emotions, but it backfires on us if we do not see beyond the pain to solving our mental problems. What do you think?
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Jim1999

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2009 :  22:20:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
By aiming to become painfree or even see a significant drop in my pain levels, I am constantly monitoring my pain!!! Even though I’m doing my best to talk to my brain and ‘think psychological, not physical’ there are inevitably those moments before I start to ‘think psychological’ when I’m more aware of pain that I would normally ignore or ‘switch off’ from. So in some ways, I feel as if at times I have more pain than previously.


Flutterby,

I don't understand why you feel a need to constantly monitor your pain. Yes, a decrease in pain is a good indicator that Sarno's method is working, but that doesn't mean you have to always be looking for the slightest change in how you feel. A rough idea of whether your pain has improved from day to day or week to week should do. Constant pain monitoring is a form of "thinking physical" and is not a part of Sarno's method.

Jim
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2009 :  02:22:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
'Constant pain monitoring is a form of "thinking physical" and is not a part of Sarno's method.'

I think I must have misunderstood something.

My understanding from Dr Sarno's books was that when you feel pain you switch to 'thinking psychological'and that you try to relate the onset or worsening of symptoms (in my case, pain) to how one is feeling emotionally. To do this I have had to let myself be more aware of my pain than I was previously.

Also, surely it is natural when you are starting out on some new way of trying to solve a problem, that you will want to check frequently whether it is working so that you know whether to persist in that method?


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pandamonium

United Kingdom
202 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2009 :  05:16:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do see where you are coming from flutterby, usually you ignore the pain but now you are being forced to take note, but the pain is like a signpost telling you to think about what up with you. So you shouldn't be saying (as I am sure you are not) "Oh, no, why is that pain happening, what's wrong with me?" etc? You should instead be concious that the pain is there and switch right away to thinking about what's going on emotionally to cause it.

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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2009 :  05:20:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, I'm feeling VERY confused - and increasingly despondent! - now and hoping someone can point me in the right direction!

It seems to me that in trying to follow any 'treatment program' one is inevitably going to be more aware of one's symptoms, if only momentarily. In my case I think this makes me think that my pain is worse than previously but I'm prepared to put up with that if it leads to a reduction in pain eventually. But I seem to be being advised on the one hand to think about it all less and on the other hand to think about it more! Result = confusion!

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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2009 :  05:35:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, pandamonium! I think we must have posted at almost the same moment. It's a great relief to know that someone at least understands what I'm trying to say!

Yes, I am treating my pain as a kind of 'wake-up call' now and doing that has resulted in a lot of useful discoveries.

I just wondered whether anyone else who doesn't appear to be making progress in reducing their pain (or having 'setbacks' like I've had this week) might be in the same position of appearingto have more rather than less pain because of being more aware of it?

Maybe most people posting here turned to the Sarno method as a last resort because they were desperate? I wasn't in that position - I was in fact leading a reasonably satisfactory life and was originally intereted in the idea on behalf of a friend who's life is entirely circumscribed by her various ailments and pain. She rejected the whole idea but I thought I might be able to improve my own pain situation further. I already had a strong belief in mind-body connections and had always journaled, though not regularly, so Dr Sarno's books were just taking that one step further and giving more concrete and specific advice on what to do about it.

I hope it's just a case of 'reculer pour mieux sauter'!!! But until I know for sure that I really do have TMS, I don't suppose I can make lasting progress.
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Jim1999

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2009 :  23:34:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Flutterby,

OK, you've identified two reasons for frequently monitoring your pain: checking your progress and looking for clues to your repressed emotions. I'd like respond to both.

1) Checking your progress.

In your 02:22:12 posting on May 20th, you said it's natural to want to frequently monitor your progress with a new treatment. Sure, it's natural, but what's natural isn't always what helps. If you had a few mosquito bites, it would be very natural to want to scratch them frequently, but that would only make it worse. In order for the bites to heal, you have to overcome what seems natural.

I think it can be the same way with TMS, in that frequent pain monitoring is natural but often counter-productive.

2) Looking for clues to repressed emotions.

I believe that when Sarno talks about using pain as a clue to repressed emotions, he's talking about major outbreaks of pain that are impossible to ignore. If you have a passage in a Sarno book that says otherwise, please let me know.

You say that monitoring your pain very frequently has allowed you to make a lot of useful discoveries. OK, but I don't think that this is a typical approach for applying Sarno's treatment. Since you've been trying this for five weeks and have seen very little improvement in your symptoms (if I'm interpretting your postings correctly), here's an idea:

Try taking a week off from pain monitoring. Instead, just talk to your brain occasionally, telling it to stop the pain. The rest of the time, ignore your pain like you used to do. At the end of the week, check your pain level to see if you've made any progress.

Just a thought.

Jim
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  03:33:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim - I am very grateful to you for taking the trouble to get an overview of what's been happening with me over the past month or so and suggest a plan for me! It is more or less what I had decided to do anyway, especially since doubts have crept in as to whether I actually have TMS in any case.

I'd like to respond to some of your comments though, even though they may no longer be relevant.

First, your 'mosquito bites' analogy. I don't think it quite fits from my point of view. The way I've been seeing it is more like when you are growing a business; it's good practice to keep a close eye on your actual figures compared to the business plan, so that if the two don't correlate, you can take prompt action to make changes to avert failure of the business.

Second, you refer to 'major outbreaks' of pain - this is what I've had increasingly as this week has gone on!

Third, it's not entirely true that I've seen very little improvement. Last week, week 4 by your calculation, I had a fantastic week, really putting my back to the test! But then I've always had fluctuations in my pain and looking back I can see the correlation between the best and the worst times and things that were going on in my life at the time. (It could be that my virtually pain-free week had something to do with being distracted from my own 'issues' by the emergency with my son-in-law.)

And lastly, you say that my approach is not very typical re making useful discoveries. My impression from reading this message board is that people are using two different slightly different approaches. Both involve regarding the pain as a distraction but some then tell their brains that they are no longer fooled by its 'tricks' while others thank it for alerting them to something being wrong psychologically (the 'Lassie' approach). But both seem to me to come down to using one's pain as a warning that something needs investigating on a psychological/emotional level, which I do think is 'the Sarno approach'. (As it happens, this was something I was suggesting to others nearly twenty years ago, off my own bat - but hadn't really put into practice myself!)

Anyway, I think I have 'dug up' more than enough to be going on with on an emotional level now (two recent major 'losses' which I was 'coping with' rather too well!) and I have my hands full dealing with that so your advice fits very neatly with the conclusion I was coming to anyway. Thank you!

And whether or not I actually have full-blown TMS or whether the current issues in my life are just causing exacerbation of my pain, the process of bringing those out into the light has been invaluable.






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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  09:51:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
And whether or not I actually have full-blown TMS or whether the current issues in my life are just causing exacerbation of my pain, the process of bringing those out into the light has been invaluable.


What exactly is your definition of "full-blown TMS"?

As you are discovering, it is counterproductive to over analyze. You cannot "think" your way out of TMS. Do not try to make any correlation between the levels of your pain and emotional issues. While it may be true that the pain increases at times when you are supressing feelings, I believe it is best to think of TMS as a random process. Attempting to understand why the pain comes when it does, or why certain times are more severe than others, is pointless. All this does is make you focus more on the pain, which is the exact opposite of the goal.

Monitoring your pain, while understandable in the early days of treating TMS, is detrimental to recovery. The goal is to learn to ignore the pain. When you become aware of it, shift your focus to your emotional state. Do this repeatedly until it becomes a habit. Eventually you will recondition yourself to change the way you think about and react to the pain.

Bottom line: don't make TMS treatment more complicated than it needs to be. Don't try to understand the details of why, when, or how bad the pain is, because you can't, and even if you could, it doesn't matter.

1. Repudiate the structual explanation
2. Think psychological
3. Resume normal physical activity
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crk

124 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  11:02:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby

... My impression from reading this message board is that people are using two different slightly different approaches. Both involve regarding the pain as a distraction but some then tell their brains that they are no longer fooled by its 'tricks' while others thank it for alerting them to something being wrong psychologically (the 'Lassie' approach). ...


Yes, Flutterby. You are very perceptive. My interpretation of this observation is that they are different stages of tms recovery rather than 2 different approaches.

When I first found out about tms, just knowing made it go away. Then I had to introduce talking to the brain. With each new episode or trigger, I feel now like I was being taken further along in a journey.

I am so thoroughly convinced now of the tms diagnosis that I practically have to see blood before acknowledging a "real" injury, but that no longer provides relief. Although I am generally pain free, when a pain triggers I say, "aha! we're having a lesson today."

I am going where my tms is taking me and it is very exciting! Don't get me wrong, the pain is a damn nuisance when it comes. It is the inevitable result of a deeply painful, crappy childhood. How I wish I had not been hurt so much! But I think about the kind of person I want to be in terms of mental health and I get so excited that I am heading that way!

I hope that helps. Keep asking for clarification! You ask wonderful questions!
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  11:19:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for sharing your experiences, crk!

To be honest, I was getting rather sick of people telling me what to do in view of the fact that I just made an observation and asked for thoughts on this and whether others had had the same experience. I wasn't aware that I had actually ask for advice and I find it very irritating, especially when much of it is suggesting what I am already doing or contradicts what others have advised!

And Dave, you are suggesting I should ignore my pain - that is precisely what I've been doing previously and pandamonium pointed out that it was not getting me anywhere doing that!

I think it is probably best that I do as HIllbilly keeps suggesting and keep off this forum until I know for sure that I have 'full-blown' TMS, by which I mean that there is no physical cause of my pain, as opposed to a physical cause that is exacerbated by psychological issues. I seem to have got things rather backwards about, assuming I had TMS and then being prompted by watching Dr Schubiner's video to wonder whether I really have, for which I apologise.
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Jim1999

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2009 :  23:05:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Flutterby,

You're welcome for the plan. I'd also like to respond to some of your comments. (If you're away from the board for a while, you can read this when you get back.)

quote:
Originally posted by flutterby

First, your 'mosquito bites' analogy. I don't think it quite fits from my point of view. The way I've been seeing it is more like when you are growing a business; it's good practice to keep a close eye on your actual figures compared to the business plan, so that if the two don't correlate, you can take prompt action to make changes to avert failure of the business.

I agree that a business should monitor its actual figures. The question is how often to do this, because checking the figures too often can cause problems. For example, what if a store manager decided to monitor the store's sales on a minute-by-minute basis? "Our sales are down 20% in the last minute. We need to take action to correct this." I think it's easy to see how this would cause anxiety and overreactions by the store employees, damaging the store's sales.

When you say that you've been monitoring your pain constantly, I think you are measuring way too often, like the store manager.

quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
Second, you refer to 'major outbreaks' of pain - this is what I've had increasingly as this week has gone on!

I should clarify what I meant about major outbreaks of pain (pain that's too severe to ignore) and how that relates to pain monitoring. There is no need for extra pain monitoring related to the outbreak. When the pain becomes severe, it will force the patient to be aware of it. Once the pain drops to levels that can be ignored, the patient will naturally tend to forget about it and go on with life. There may be a need to use a major outbreak as a clue to understanding repressed emotions, but there isn't a need for constant pain monitoring to know when you're in a major outbreak or how the outbreak is changing.

quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
And lastly, you say that my approach is not very typical re making useful discoveries. My impression from reading this message board is that people are using two different slightly different approaches. Both involve regarding the pain as a distraction but some then tell their brains that they are no longer fooled by its 'tricks' while others thank it for alerting them to something being wrong psychologically (the 'Lassie' approach). But both seem to me to come down to using one's pain as a warning that something needs investigating on a psychological/emotional level, which I do think is 'the Sarno approach'.

At the risk of sounding too redundant, I think that your approach is not typical because of the constant pain monitoring. It's not about whether to monitor the pain at all. It's not about whether to respond to the pain. It's only about how often you monitor the pain. I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that constant pain monitoring is typical in TMS treatment.

I hope this helps to clarify things.

Jim
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2009 :  10:49:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flutterby
and keep off this forum until I know for sure that I have 'full-blown' TMS, by which I mean that there is no physical cause of my pain, as opposed to a physical cause that is exacerbated by psychological issues.

Again, you are creating definitions in your mind that are irrelevant.

There is no such thing as 'full blown' TMS. The fact that you are contemplating a "physical cause that is exacerbated by psychological issues" indicates that you have not fully accepted Dr. Sarno's definition of TMS and his suggestions for treating it, or you have chosen to take a different path. That is fine, but be honest with yourself about it, and do not call it TMS.

You seem to be politely offended by blunt responses you receive on this forum but hopefully you can take something away that helps you recover. This forum is focused on Dr. Sarno's theories. If you choose this path, then you must commit to it, otherwise you leave opportunities for your unconscious mind to continue to play games. You also need to take a long-term view and not get frustrated by lack of short-term results.

Good luck.
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2009 :  04:16:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave - I really had not intended taking this discussion any further as it seems to be going nowhere. But I feel I must challenge what you said about me not fully accepting Dr Sarno's definition of TMS.

'The fact that you are contemplating a "physical cause that is exacerbated by psychological issues" indicates that you have not fully accepted Dr. Sarno's definition of TMS and his suggestions for treating it, or you have chosen to take a different path. '

The truth is that I do fully accept his definition and have spread the word to others - but that, at this point in time, after reading Dr Schubiner's website, I am not 100% sure that it applies to me!

This is for two reasons -

1. I am only a partial fit when it comes to the personality profile.

2. More importantly, I have not as yet been diagnosed with TMS so find it impossible to tell myself with any conviction that I do not have a physical problem that causes my pain.

So, until I know for sure that I have TMS, I am following all the other recommendations in the 'Sarno treatment' - in fact, I was already doing them anyway! I'm sure you would agree that this is the most sensible, rational way to proceed, pending diagnosis.

I think we shall have to agree to differ on whether there can be symptoms stemming from a physical cause which are exacerbated by psychological issues, ie what I would call a 'TMS component'. I am not likely to change my mind on that and it doesn't seem as if you are either.

I am puzzled as to what you mean by 'being honest with myself' as I do rate honesty, particularly with oneself, very highly. So I would be interested to hear in what way you think I am not being honest with myself.

Other than that, I don't have anything else to say at the moment, apart from thanking all those who have been so supportive and taken the trouble to try to understand what I have been attempting to convey, crk, pandamonium and sarita, in particular. Thank you


Edited by - flutterby on 05/25/2009 04:23:46
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2009 :  11:32:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The most important thing is to rule out any serious disease or structural issue that may be causing the symptoms.

I assume that you have sought treatment from a medical doctor and they have not found any diagnosis. If this is not true, then of course you cannot assume that your symptoms are due to TMS.

If you have sought medical treatment and ruled out any serious issues, then only you can decide if TMS applies to you. In my opinion, seeking reasons as to why TMS does NOT apply is a sign of doubt.

My main point is, for somebody who decides to accept the TMS diagnosis and do the work necessary for recovery, it is counterproductive to consider any physical cause of the symptoms. "Physical pain exacerbated by psychological issues" is simply not part of Dr. Sarno's theory. It is certainly reasonable to believe this, but then it should not be called TMS, and you cannot expect his treatment suggestions to work, since it is critical to accept that the symptoms are caused by psychological issues.
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flutterby

United Kingdom
79 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2009 :  12:48:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It’s years since I even thought about all this and I had to dig my notes out of the back of the filing cabinet, but just to be clear, I had a laminectomy for a ‘sequestered disc’ in 1984, which enabled me to walk without excruciating pain, so I do believe that surgery was necessary and successful in itself. The surgeon told me that he had removed ‘quite large fragments’ to reassure me that the surgery was necessary as I had delayed it by a couple of days to get a second opinion from a neurologist as I was firmly convinced that the pain was ‘all in my head’ (though I had no idea what to do about it at that time).

I was told that the surgery probably wouldn’t get rid of all my pain and although it was a great improvement to be able to walk, it didn’t. So in 1991 I had an MRI that showed ‘no evidence of further disc prolapse’ but ‘fibrous scarring around the nerve roots’ which was deemed to be causing my pain. I was offered an epidural, which I declined because I had seen disastrous results first-hand - at which point I went down the 'pain management' route, which has helped me considerably to lead a relatively 'normal' life.

That was the last ‘diagnosis’ I had and I am pretty sure that if I went back to my doctors now, they would simply confirm it.

That is why I am trying to find out whether this ‘fibrous scarring’ is a true cause of pain – or not! I had hoped that there might be someone on this forum who could tell me that they had had the same diagnosis from mainstream medical practitioners and yet cured their pain by using Dr Sarno’s methods – but so far I’ve drawn a blank. Am waiting now to see whether Dr Schubiner might have some views on this in answer to the query I posted on the wiki last week.

If he doesn’t I’m not sure what to do – but meanwhile I’ll keep journaling (can’t do me any harm and I do it anyway!) and lugging heavy pots around my garden as usual – I’ve never been bothered that things like that will harm me and actually, I don’t fear pain – it’s just something I’ve learned to live with but on the other hand, would love to be without, if that’s possible!
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