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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2010 :  04:42:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear All,

Can somebody explain me why pain is there only after sitting on computer. From Where it is cooming ? It comes only after sitting in front of computer.

I am feeling some weakness after sitting on PC in upper body. and I always have neck pain, which starts within 20 min after sitting on PC.

1) WIll this pain will go away completely ?
2) what should be our strategy for facing computer pain as simultanousely we have to work too. And pain diverts our mind.
3) There is always some strange feeling in both the legs after sitting on computer. Why and what is this ?
4)I know pain will go away within 20 minutes if I get out from PC. What is going wrong after sitting on PC ?
5) I have worked on myself since last six month and my consciousness is so pure and I am feeling content and blissful. Still why this pain is bothering me ?
6) All my fear of pain has gone and I have pain but I no more suffer. Really I am now enjoying this pain. So strange and yet so powerful.
7) I want to get rid of this pain completely. Because it diverts my concentration. And gives me very grossy feel.

Only solution I am seeing is increase my willpower and throw this garbage out.


Computer related Pain is common symptoms here and all your answers will be useful to all RSI related TMS people.

I am really seeking answers from experts who have overcome computer related RSI pain.

Thanks in Advance.

Sachin

Edited by - patils on 01/15/2010 05:04:23

Staffan

Sweden
8 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2010 :  01:46:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had RSI for years. I stopped working, and in the end, I avoided computers almost 100% of the time. Still, the pain was back after just 5 minutes on the computer after months of total absence from computers.

It all changed when I read Sarno's books, and Fred Amir's book "Rapid recovery from back and neck pain".

I had trained myself to think that the computer keyboard is dangerous. That I would hurt myself if I use one. You need to overcome this conditioning. I improved my self confidence by thinking "the computer is not dangerous. I will not hurt myself. Keep the blood flowing to my hands." before I sat down at the computer. I started with just a minute a day, until I felt confident that the one minute would not cause me pain. Then I increased to 2 minutes, and I was quite rapidly at half an hour a day (within a few weeks). Still no (or VERY mild) pain.

Today I work 8 hours a day in front of a computer, and usually use the computer for a few hours in the evenings as well.
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HilaryN

United Kingdom
878 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2010 :  11:11:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Sachin,

When you say you you've "worked on yourself", could you elaborate?

I know you've mentioned meditation but have you explored what's going on emotionally?

Hilary N

Edited by - HilaryN on 01/16/2010 11:12:11
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2010 :  21:05:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN

Hi Sachin,

When you say you you've "worked on yourself", could you elaborate?

I know you've mentioned meditation but have you explored what's going on emotionally?

Hilary N



Thanks Hilary and Staffen,

What I mean " Worked on myself" means I have purified my thinking. Thee is no hate, no prejudice or not anything which can keep my heart loaded. I am really experiencing peace. This all has become possible because of meditative mind.

The problem only remained is this pain , which is only after sitting on computer. Pain is only in neck and upper back but makes me feel annoying and disturbs my concentration. Also some strange feeling at the bottom of my feet is always present.

Regaring emotions. I never suppress anything now and is totally open person. Nothing to hide.

One thing still I am experiencing is fear of pain. But I believe this has been caused because of pain only and not vice versa.

I am 95 % recovered but this 5 % makes all progress to O %.
Should I change my career to some noncomputer job ?

It is very easy to say ignore pain but difficult to do it. I have done it but it has now resulted into fatigue and overactive nervous system.

Thanks Hilary in advance.

Edited by - patils on 01/18/2010 21:20:10
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HilaryN

United Kingdom
878 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  09:03:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Sachin,

When you say you've purified your emotions, I'm worried that you may have pushed down the negative repressed emotions rather than letting them out - I guess that's something best addressed by psychotherapy.

I took a similar approach to Staffan in building up my time on the computer gradually. Will your job allow that?

I don't blame you for being afraid of pain - I am when I get it.
quote:
Should I change my career to some noncomputer job ?

Nooooo, definitely not! Stay with it! (In any case that would be practically impossible! Very few jobs don't use a computer nowadays.)

Hilary N
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  09:43:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HilaryN

Hi Sachin,

When you say you've purified your emotions, I'm worried that you may have pushed down the negative repressed emotions rather than letting them out - I guess that's something best addressed by psychotherapy.

I took a similar approach to Staffan in building up my time on the computer gradually. Will your job allow that?

I don't blame you for being afraid of pain - I am when I get it.
quote:
Should I change my career to some noncomputer job ?

Nooooo, definitely not! Stay with it! (In any case that would be practically impossible! Very few jobs don't use a computer nowadays.)

Hilary N



Thanks hilary N.
I have repressed emotions in initial days and not now a days.

Yes it is possible that I can use my computer for very less time . i can restrict all computer work for two hours as I have to work, only if something goes wrong.

Is there any plan that I can break this pain and fear cycle for computer related pain.

Please share if anybody have correct solution for breaking pain cyle for computer related pain. What will work best in this case ?


Thanks Hilary N. You are really supportive and always encourages to new joinees. ( I always check your posts ) May you grow and grow.

Thanks,

Sachin

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HilaryN

United Kingdom
878 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  11:00:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Sachin,

Thank you!

I'm not totally sure of this but I believe repressed emotions are emotions which we hid from ourselves in childhood as it wasn't safe for us to let them out then.

Regarding breaking the pain/fear cycle, ideally you would work at the computer each day for a time LESS than that for which you get any symptoms - then very gradually build it up.

So in your case, maybe work for 15 minutes a day if that won't bring on symptoms. Then after a week, maybe increase by 3-5 minutes. If you increase too quickly and get symptoms, drop down again to a manageable level and slowly increase again.

The key is to increase gradually.

By the way, I know another chap in India who is at a similar stage to you. Would you be interested in speaking to him? Drop me an email if you are interested.

Hilary N
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catspine

USA
239 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  12:37:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sachin
You may have read this already but I posted this reply on the wrong topic the last time and maybe you missed it, sorry.

In order to eliminate this possibility I assume you know all there is to know about posture and set up while using a computer so the next question is what is the trigger?
Whatever your need to use a computer for must generate an emotion that you tend to repress consciously or not .
In order to find out I would simply use a simple trick such as typing for a period of time that usually leads to pain but without turning it on or if it's on without going on line and then see what happens... It may sound silly but it could tell you a few things for example:
If you develop the pain after using it while being offline you will know that it does not have anything to do with interacting with other people
If you type while the machine is turned off you will know that it does not have anything to do with actually accomplishing something with the machine.
and if you turn it back on and the pain comes back , Bingo! you'll be one step further with maybe some new questions...

You may also study your body language while using the PC to see if it reveals something else that you haven't thought of yet.

This was just an idea to discover the real trigger as I do not have experience with carpal tunnel syndromes so I hope you get something out of this unusual test. If it works you might be able to identify the emotion(s) more easily and work with it accordingly. Good luck.
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yogaluz

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  13:54:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sachin,

I do not suffer from RSI but if I did, I would be asking myself the following:

Do I dislike my work and if so, in which ways?

Do I resent working period? An example of this might be that you were burdened with a lot of responsibility when you were young and now feel resentment at never having anyone to lean on. Perhaps you'd like someone else to help with expenses. Again, this is just an example.

Is there something in the environment where my computer is (besides the computer) that bothers me (i.e. obnoxious co-workers, messy house, etc.).?

Do you absolutely love being on the computer? If so, RSI may be a means of keeping you from using the computer as a distraction to other things going on in your life. No offense, but I'm a bit leery of someone saying they've managed to bliss out over the period of six months. If that's the case, congratulations but perhaps there are still some issues that need to be dealt with. Meditation is an amazing technique but it can also be an escape for some people. Watch that for yourself.

Anyway, hope that helps. Be well.
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bhushan

India
16 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  16:57:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Sachin,

I can relate to what you are going through as I had passed through the same face in my battle against 'RSI'. I am now completely pain free and have been working long hours on a laptop (sometime even 14-16 hours) for >12 months with no discomfort.

Sometimes, I am still amazed that all of my RSI related pain of more than 5 years went away in 2 months of following Dr. Sarno's approach.

Coming to one of your specific question: My suggestion is to take some time off from work (but not from working on computer) and then work on breaking the pain association cycle. I took about 1 month off from work since I realised that applying all the mind body principles will not be possible in a work place where I have deep pain related associations already.

As I wrote earlier, take break from work but NOT from typing or using computer. During my off time, I used to have daily targets for typing, mouse usage etc and used to religiously note down all my progress. Noting down progress gives you a lot of confidence as well. While doing so I kept telling myself that computers do not hurt. After all, if there is physical pain why does it come only when using a computer (Which is the case with you as well).

You may also want to follow what I did. Standard disclaimers apply and also, I noted that you wrote '95% recovered'. If that is true, well I think it is just a matter of time while the remaining pain association also goes away. It took me some time to overcome office related pain association despite being 100% pain free in non-workplace context. Most important thing is not to give up, please don't even think of moving to non-computer job. As you can see, so many people (like me) have recovered from RSI and continue to work on computers.

Thanks
Bhushan
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2010 :  21:58:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks All.


yogaluz says :
Do I dislike my work and if so, in which ways?


Yes man. I Really love my work and like computer too. My job is so relaxing and ( very less work ) and I cannot emagine that I can leave this job. But because of this pain, I am not able to grow in my field so have frequet thoughts for changing job etc.

catspine says :
You may also study your body language while using the PC to see if it reveals something else that you haven't thought of yet.


I dont not think body language and postures has anything to do with RSI or TMS.

Hilary N says :
Regarding breaking the pain/fear cycle, ideally you would work at the computer each day for a time LESS than that for which you get any symptoms - then very gradually build it up.

So in your case, maybe work for 15 minutes a day if that won't bring on symptoms. Then after a week, maybe increase by 3-5 minutes. If you increase too quickly and get symptoms, drop down again to a manageable level and slowly increase again.


This is the fatal mistake I committed during my recovery. I attacked so badly to TMS and get bounced back with pain multiplied 100 times. I might have approached in very subtle and gradual way. Will implement this from today only.

Bhushan says :
Coming to one of your specific question: My suggestion is to take some time off from work (but not from working on computer) and then work on breaking the pain association cycle. I took about 1 month off from work since I realised that applying all the mind body principles will not be possible in a work place where I have deep pain related associations already.


This seems very true. We should not attack so badly to TMS.

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HilaryN

United Kingdom
878 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2010 :  08:11:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bhushan,

It's good to see you back and great to see you are now completely better.

Sachin, Bhushan, I've created a TMS in India page on the TMS wiki.

How would you feel about new TMS-ers from India being able to contact you for encouragement? No need to display your email address - if you join the wiki (click the yellow Sign Up button on any wiki page) then I could put a link on the page so people can contact you via the wiki.

Bhushan, I've also added your Success Story to the Repetitive Strain Injuries Page

Hilary N

Edited by - HilaryN on 01/20/2010 08:43:26
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2010 :  08:37:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No Pain today.
Seems Successed in breaking pain cycle.

Sachin

Edited by - patils on 01/27/2010 09:05:33
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HilaryN

United Kingdom
878 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  11:29:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whoopee!

Hilary N
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2010 :  04:06:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,
I am really doing great.
I am sitting on PC for almost daily 5-6 hours without much disturbance.

I am becomming calm day by day and almost in bliss. I expect that by the end of next week, I will be 100 % pain free.

Sachin.
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mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2010 :  04:41:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Sachin,

It's great that you are feeling so much better. Is there anything that really helped you that you could share with us.

Thanks

Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
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Dave

USA
1863 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2010 :  12:04:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patils
Can somebody explain me why pain is there only after sitting on computer.

This is conditioning and is a powerful part of TMS. You experience symptoms you expect. Your brain is clever and tries to give you symptoms you will believe as physical and that will serve as a successful distraction.
quote:
1) WIll this pain will go away completely ?
Maybe, but you shouldn't care. Just do the work and take a long-term view and accept the pain will fade over time.
quote:
2) what should be our strategy for facing computer pain as simultanousely we have to work too.

All you can do is ignore it as best you can and reinforce your belief that the pain is TMS and not due to structural issues.
quote:
5) I have worked on myself since last six month and my consciousness is so pure and I am feeling content and blissful. Still why this pain is bothering me ?

The conditioning process took a lifetime to build and it will take time to go away. Have faith in the process. As long as the pain is no longer generating fear or consuming your thoughts, then you are winning.
quote:
Really I am now enjoying this pain. So strange and yet so powerful.

This is a good attitude. The pain is benign. Continue to reinforce the belief that the pain is not due to anything physically wrong with you, and it sill subside over time.

Continue to explore the repressed feelings that are feeding the TMS process. Keep trying to explore the "ugly" emotions that you may not want to admit are festering inside you. These "forbidden" emotions are hard to accept because we don't want to feel them, but it is important to try.

It seems that you are on the right track. Try your best not to be concerned about how bad the pain is, why it comes, or when it will go away. Do not pay them any attention to it at all. Continue to diffuse the power of the symptoms. Over time they will fade on thier own.
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2010 :  22:03:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mala


It's great that you are feeling so much better. Is there anything that really helped you that you could share with us.




What helped me ?
Really speaking I helped myself by Acceptance and Meditation.

Thanks Dave for your all answers. We all are really greatful to you for making this forum possible and accessible to all.

Regarding Sarno's theory, I doubt his distraction theory that subconsciousness mind distracting us in the form of pain. How it can be ? May be it is just assumption ?

However I agree that overloaded subscinious can be cause of this pain. I am getting frequent dreams and that too in deep sleep. This indicates subsciniousness mind is really loaded. So to say that TMS is just anxiety symptoms is also incorrect.

Ashok Gupta's explanation of CFS seems very correct and our intellect can easily understand this.

And also Hilliby's post have greately helped me. I have applied all techniques that he has mentioned in almost 200 posts. They too are really great asset for understanding symptoms and how to deal with it.

I will let you know by end of week further progress. Fear is still there.

May all be happy and healthy.

Sachin

When all Medicine fails, Meditation will help.
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Dave

USA
1863 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2010 :  09:21:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patils
Regarding Sarno's theory, I doubt his distraction theory that subconsciousness mind distracting us in the form of pain. How it can be ? May be it is just assumption ?

This is a source of frequent debate. I choose to view Dr. Sarno's explanation as a metaphor. Others choose to completely disregard the 'distraction' theory.

Personally, I choose to trust a medical doctor who has been treating thousands of real patients for nearly 4 decades and has formulated a theory based on these clinical experiences. As someone who has no medical training or experience, it would be arrogant of me to suggest that I know better than Dr. Sarno.

The distraction theory is successful because it works, plain and simple. People recover when they learn about TMS and put it in these terms. Others take a different path, and maybe some of them recover as well, but Dr. Sarno has the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

I believe that if you go too far down the path of questioning and doubting the details of Dr. Sarno's theory, it is counterproductive to recovery. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. The treatment is exactly the same whether or not you believe in the "distraction theory." So why waste your time over-analyzing and thinking about this. Just do the work.
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2010 :  22:56:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave

quote:
Originally posted by patils
Regarding Sarno's theory, I doubt his distraction theory that subconsciousness mind distracting us in the form of pain. How it can be ? May be it is just assumption ?

This is a source of frequent debate. I choose to view Dr. Sarno's explanation as a metaphor. Others choose to completely disregard the 'distraction' theory.

Personally, I choose to trust a medical doctor who has been treating thousands of real patients for nearly 4 decades and has formulated a theory based on these clinical experiences. As someone who has no medical training or experience, it would be arrogant of me to suggest that I know better than Dr. Sarno.

The distraction theory is successful because it works, plain and simple. People recover when they learn about TMS and put it in these terms. Others take a different path, and maybe some of them recover as well, but Dr. Sarno has the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

I believe that if you go too far down the path of questioning and doubting the details of Dr. Sarno's theory, it is counterproductive to recovery. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. The treatment is exactly the same whether or not you believe in the "distraction theory." So why waste your time over-analyzing and thinking about this. Just do the work.




Dave,
This I 100 % agree.
What does it matter to patients. It will be waste of time and as you say may become hinderance to recovery.
We have go on ignoring and keep working.
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patils

72 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2010 :  03:54:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
100 % GONE.

May all be Happy and Healthy everywhere.



Sachin

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