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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2012 : 11:18:18
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Hi, My name is Wavy and I'm NOT an alcoholic, but they say in AA that "the disease" is cunning, baffling and powerful and I am feeling that way about my alleged TMS.
My current symptoms are extreme fatigue (keeling over after lunch for several hours) and dry eyes. Both of these (as I have found out after getting them) are common in my situation of having had uterine cancer, a hysterectomy, and so on last year. BUT I'm pretty sure that, while I may need to relax a lot and rest more than usual, there is much TMS going on here.
The dry eyes are crazy. I have done everything that one does including the dry eye doc, who nocebo-istically announced that they would never be cured, then proceeded to do a couple of procedures which he said might alleviate them. They didn't. It happens mostly at night. I wake up and the eyes are so dry and almost impossible to open and so painful that I have to jump up and wash them out. Bad for my sleep and bad for my peace of mind. And worse than anything, bad for my beautiful looks - I look puffy and tired.
Since it's something that I wake up with, it seems as though my unconscious is throwing a hissy fit in the night. It's so upsetting and physically almost an emergency (hard to live without being able to see) that I am having a great challenge applying any useful principles. The best I am managing right now is not taking it too seriously, and kind of waking up to the fact that it's TMS.
Is it? I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced.
TMSaholic in Tiburon
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 11:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
The dry eyes are crazy. I have done everything that one does including the dry eye doc, who nocebo-istically announced that they would never be cured, then proceeded to do a couple of procedures which he said might alleviate them. They didn't.
Hi Wavy,
Sorry the eye doc couldn't be more TMS helpful. If you want to explore vision/VISION, read books by Dr. Robert-Michael Kaplan. I found them very inspiring and I believe compatible with TMS philosophy. They are "THE POWER BEHIND YOUR EYES" and "SEEING WITHOUT GLASSES:IMPROVING YOUR VISION NATURALLY".
His web site is:
http://www.beyond2020vision.com/ |
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glowgirl
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 14:43:16
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hi wavy,
sorry to hear of the cancer and dry eyes...
hope this is ok to suggest
i use a dry eye gel by GenTeal at night. not the vaseline type but an aqueous type. works like a charm.
my understanding is dry eyes can be a normal part of ageing and hormonal changes, etc.
perhaps you've tried this? if not, perhaps you might. and perhaps it's not a TMS symptom but just something normal?
that would be nice!
(from someone who is herself loaded with TMS and loves finding "normal" stuff!)
best of luck |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 17:27:02
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Thanks, You Glow Girl! (replied to TT below)
I certainly don't mind the recommendation - I just went and looked in my stash of eye drops and found it and am now looking at a cloudy screen through GenTeal's gelatinous film. As far as I remember, it didn't work at night, as none of them did, but I'm going to try this one again tonight.
It's almost as though there is some internal sucking. Not just that they dry out, but that someone opens the drain somewhere below and vacuums the moisture downwards, so that my eyes are being dragged down a vortex screaming and...
...now even I (eye) can hear that it sounds like some kind of psychoillogical something.
On the matter of cunninc, baffling, etc., I wish that this was a well-researched TMS job, like lower back pain. I was just talking to a friend the other day, who was complaining of her "back problems." Her landlord is kicking her out. I reminded her of Sarno, and was able to honestly say that my back - which had been a lifelong misery - no longer even DARES to play up, because it knows I don't believe it. I KNOW it's TMS.
But I tend towards the exotic, the marginalized, rarely-seen TMS forms. Which makes it harder to call it.
Last time I posted about this, a couple of people mentioned that they had had it and it had gone away, therefore probably TMS. Often people come on the boards with symptoms that I have had, which I no longer have.
But as for today I feel powerless (the first of the 12 steps) against this wagon train of new forms the ROR (reservoir of rage) seems to take. The second step (I go to AlAnon occasionally) is that I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. I would call that higher power my naturally healthy body when it's allowed to just be an animal instead of an instrument of distraction or expression of anguish.
Third step (adapted) is that I now make the conscious decision to trust my body to that innate healthiness.
I've written before about how I feel as though I need a 12-Step Program called SickAnon or SymptomAnon, because this is where my unconscious addictive tendencies seem to manifest.
Any 12-Steppers out there or dry eye debunkers (gentle please, and only if you've been through it yourself).
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
Edited by - Wavy Soul on 06/30/2012 17:30:57 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 17:29:58
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P.S. Tennis Tom: Thanks for the reference. I'm going to look at that link and the other one you sent me, re my vision problems like double vision.
The dry eyes are something else, although of course the eye symbolism is there.
xx
Wimbledon Watcher in Tiburon
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 20:46:08
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Hey Wavy. SteveO mentions dry eyes on pages 11 & 147 of his book. He says that TMS can affect any organ in the body 'the ares afflicted by tension will be whatever is in vogue-popularised and focussed on at any time in society'.
Both Stevo & Dr Sopher talk about passing on of symptoms as 'amplification' that is shared suffering thru mistaken beliefs. TV ads , doctors and even friends can plant seeds of fear & dry eyes is given as an example.
There is so much information that is around which is impossible to ignore even if you try. Any exposure might influence the way we think consciously & subliminally.
That's why I think a TMS doctor who is treating Lara who used to post here has made it clear that she is to stay away from the internet, forums etc. especially during the initial recovery stage.
Makes sense.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 06/30/2012 21:09:23 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2012 : 22:28:51
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Yes, I know it's like a mind-body virus belief thing.
In fact, I had NEVER consciously heard of dry eyes. It came over me while visiting England, and I didn't even know it was dry eyes for a few days - just pain and puffiness.
But according to to my understanding--and I get a lot of this from the mystical teacher Joel Goldsmith (The Infinite Way) and other teachers in that vein, the collective thought viruses can get us even when we have never heard of this stuff. We share in some kind of collective patterning beyond what we realize. In The Infinite Way they use this to explain why even babies can get illnesses that are currently popular even before they could hear about them.
Thanks - I have tried just about everything physical I can imagine - and it is now really dawning on me that it IS TMS. At first that didn't even occur to me - it was so sudden and physical and I hadn't heard of it. I will also check SteveO's book.
Thanks so much Mala.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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fadoozle
33 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2012 : 05:33:46
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Hi Wavy.
I was diagnosed with dry eyes last spring. I am not so convinced that dry eyes are TMS, though it is true that there are times when I don't notice them nearly as much as others. I tend to fall on the side of believing it's *not* TMS. I use Refresh drops as needed during the day (some days not at all).
I also could use a SymptomAnon meeting every now and again! :)
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Edited by - fadoozle on 07/01/2012 05:36:09 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2012 : 17:55:20
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Wavy,
You've had cancer, followed by a pretty major surgery. That's obviously going to take a big toll.In the end, does it matter so much whether it's TMS or not? No one's ever going to be able to tell you definitively, and you'll cover yourself nicely from a TMS standpoint by being as fearless as you can, and as patient with yourself and your pain and fatigue and dry eyes as you need. PUsh on, but only within the limits of what you're able to do.
I know I waste a tremendous amount of energy trying to dope out my various symptoms. Real or TMS. Live or Memorex. I'm trying to mend my ways in that regard and instead simply apply some of my own advice above. At 61 now, I find the old rules no longer apply so neatly. I've had a series of real injuries in the last year or so, a few of which I've made worse by ignoring. In one case, I ended up with a blood clot Yikes
Cancer, blood clots, no psychosomatic goings on there. |
Edited by - art on 07/01/2012 17:57:40 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 17:26:13
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quote:
Originally posted by fadoozle
Hi Wavy.
I was diagnosed with dry eyes last spring. I am not so convinced that dry eyes are TMS, though it is true that there are times when I don't notice them nearly as much as others. I tend to fall on the side of believing it's *not* TMS. I use Refresh drops as needed during the day (some days not at all).
I also could use a SymptomAnon meeting every now and again! :)
I've had dry eyes for 4 or 5 years now. Only at night, after I've been asleep. I've never worried about this, which is the negative energy that keeps TMS symptoms going. Since the dry eyes continue on their dry and merry way, I assume it's an actual syndrome, not TMS..
JUst another unpleasant but not all that terrible manifestation of creeping age-itis. |
Edited by - art on 07/02/2012 17:36:06 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 17:33:08
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Here is an exert from "The Divided Mind" by one of Sarno's colleagues:
pg 263-264 "Another interesting person I saw was a gentleman with dry eyes. The symptom had been there for a long time, and ophthalmologists had not found an underlying medical condition to explain it. The patient was so uncomfortable, though, that in an effort to relieve the symptoms one ophthalmologist tied off the return tear ducts so tears would linger in the eyes instead of finding their natural path into the nose. Somehow, he found his way to my office. At first I looked for rheumatic disorders that could cause dry eyes. Finding none, and considering the ophthalmologist's negative findings, this became a very challenging problem, that is, until I realized that he was obsessed with the dry eyes and very fearful of the gritty symptoms and redness that they caused. At one point I asked if he had ever cried at a sad movie. Suprised at my question, he said, "Yes". I asked if tears had fallen down his cheeks, and again he resonded affirmatively. If there were an organic reason for the lack of tears, this could have not happened. This recognition was the true beginning of his loss of fear and ability to get better. The eye symptoms began to recede and he started psychotherapy, the true path to healing".
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 20:14:29
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Dr. Leonard-Segal did us all a great favor by writing her chapter in The Divided Mind. She's a nice lady too. Dry eyes are definitely TMS. She showed that as long as you can produce tears by crying or through excitement etc., then dry eye is a diversion by the brain. If you can produce a tear, then there's nothing wrong with the eyes as long as the tear ducts are not obstructed, or a disease process is in play. I have seen people lose their saliva and tear production after chemo. But if you've had wet eyes and they suddenly became irritated then look at TMS as the cause.
I remember during writing my eyes were driving me crazy many nights, blinking, no tears, blinking, blinking...blinking. It was then I suddenly realized how dry eye is a diversion from stress because when I ignored it, like tinnitus, it disappeared like the tinnitus. People often underestimate the power of the brain and immediately run back to the body as failing when they suddenly have a new symptom. It's part of the devious nature of TMS and the brain's intent.
It's also important to note that many cancers are TMS, from the mindbody syndrome. I was in communication with Carl Simonton one of the best cancer physicians in the world a few years back. His book, Getting Well Again, is one of the best books I've ever read. In many ways he reminded me of Dr. Sarno. Simonton knew that strong emotional processes created many cancers. Once again people underestimate the power of the brain. Simonton was on the cutting edge, then one day I got word he choked to death at home eating alone. It was a great loss, he was doing such great work and wasn't very old.
Simonton knew many cancers are part of the mindbody process. Dr. Sarno has mentioned in 2 interviews that a couple of his patients severe TMS had shifted through the SI into cancer. Bruce Lipton is an eminent cell biologist and has spent his entire career studying the biology and its reaction to perception. He has stated that there is no such thing as a cancer gene. Cells go cancerous when they are told to do so by signals from the brain, and the perception of the environment--perception being belief.
People fall back on the notion of a failing body way too quickly. They miss the powerful authority of the brain and the mindbody connection.
Of course there are other factors in cells expressing themselves like extreme deficiencies, or toxic invaders, etc.
Dry eyes are almost always TMS and the evidence is there to back it up thanks to Sarno and Segal.
Cancers are by and large the effects of powerful emotions outside of awareness, barring anything vile to the system. The immune system that fights cancer is inhibited for a reason, and that reason is often tension.
SO |
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fadoozle
33 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 10:45:01
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SteveO, what are your thoughts with regard to pediatric cancer (e.g. an 18-month-old with a brain tumor)?
Also, there are three different types of tears (basal, reflex, and emotional). I have dry eyes and still can cry emotional tears.
My point here I guess is that our bodies do change over time, and that I wonder if we can trace the mind/body connection to *all* illness. If that were true, would Dale Carnegie have died of cancer at 61? Would Wayne Dyer have leukemia? |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 16:31:32
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Wow - I just noticed these great responses!
I completely forgot or blocked this chapter from Divided Mind, although I have read it twice. Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention.
And yes, I not only believe but am sure that my cancer was a form of TMS. The stressors preceding it were almost unimaginable. And yet it became a massive secondary stress in itself. I feel as though I'm in the aftermath of a bit of a TMS domino effect.
In fact, as I have brought up in threads here over the years, I consider all illness is --so to speak -- TMS, in that consciousness affects "matter" rather than the reverse. And even the so-called inevitable and sacrosanct tendencies towards ageing and death are suspect. I have known almost firsthand, humans who have lived to great ages, regenerated themselves and seemingly left their bodies consciously and deliberately. Mostly chi gong-type masters in China and Mongolia (I know a guy who spent decades with them.
There are single-celled creatures that are immortal. It's a decision of consciousness to dis-integrate the host. But can we evolve to the point of doing this consciously?
Where this leaves me though, I must admit, is feeling that typical TMS perfectionism, something like "Ok, you're insisting this is TMS and I OUGHT to get that but I'm suffering quite intensely. (Also with uncontrollable fatigue)." I would like to be convinced - I am convinced about other people's TMS and about TMS in other parts of me.
But just a reference to a symptom in a book doesn't seem to be crossing the belief barrier for me. The question about whether I can cry or not doesn't do it for me. Someone asked above about the 3 forms of tears, and I'm really aware that what has gone away is not my crying ability but the involuntary lubrication while I'm asleep.
And my fatigue is beyond chronic - it's acute. I'm doing therapy, aware of my accumulated stress and rage. I know that the other piece is to believe completely that these symptoms are just TMS. I realize I don't. My back - sure. My teeth - yes. Dry eyes - well... I'm coming round on that one. Fatigue is so debilitating that I barely have the time or energy to tell myself it's TMS before it takes me down for another few hours of complete splattedness.
I'm hoping someone will wrestle me down on this one, in a way that makes sense, one of these days, although I don't know if it will be by writing here. I just haven't heard from anyone who has really been through it like I have and recovered. When people say they have had CFS they generally mean, by chronic, that they had fatigue for a year or two after a trauma or something. Mine has been about 30 years. Even if it IS TMS, I haven't been able to recover, and it's not something you can just "push through." You have to experience this to know what I mean.
I feel a bit hopeless at this moment.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
Edited by - Wavy Soul on 07/03/2012 16:44:35 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 16:39:05
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btw, my 2 cents,
re Dale Carnegie and Wayne Dyer: it's not really surprising when you look at how they have touted positive thinking rather than going down and really acknowledging their shadow stuff.
re babies: as I think I posted somewhere the other day, the thought viruses that create an atmosphere of fashionable new illnesses seem to be accessed unconsciously. I had no idea about the dry eye popularity. And my understanding of babies is that they aren't really babies - meaning they are not really a clean slate, but come in with lots and lots of painbody stuff, whether you think of it as ancestral, genetic, karmic or whatever.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 18:26:16
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HI Wavy,
First, I'm deeply sympathetic. Terrible to suffer so. Easy to feel ground down and hopeless when feeling so badly for so long.
I think you know I've been there. i've never suffered your awful fatigue, but i've been so sick I really didn't think life was worth living. It went on for a good 15 years. I well remember one day (among many, may others) when I found myself unable to get out of my car I was so weak. Literally could not open the car door, much less walk the 30 feet to the house. I sat in m own driveway for what seemed hours, so full of pain, and sickness, and despair. I was 45 years old and felt 90.
To this day I've been unable to figure my illness out. I don't believe it was psychosomatic, but i do think it was stress induced, which is not the same thing, at least not as I understand the terms. What I mean to say is that I was under so much stress for so long real, physical changes occurred on a metabolic level. When you say your cancer was TMS, well maybe, but I'm not seeing when you get to that point, that it's all that useful a concept. You sure as hell weren't going to make the cancer go away without medical intervention.
Why did I get better? It's as big a mystery to me as why I got so sick in the first place. I'm not fully cured either. the underlying illness is still there, just in an attenuated form. |
Edited by - art on 07/03/2012 18:31:26 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 19:05:55
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Thanks so much, Art.
Tom, Yes, I know of Bernie's work - but I don't have cancer. I'm clear.
The question is, whether what I'm experiencing is simply a long recovery or TMS, I guess. Prior to my surgery I had had a lot less fatigue for a few years while doing my TMS work.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 19:33:47
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| Wavy, I don't recall you looking fatigued or lacking in energy. Your writing personality exhibits a lot of psychic energy. Maybe you're expecting too much from yourself. It's easy to feel CFS with all the hyper-energetic types in Southern Marin. Maybe you need to take a trip to the South where life has a slower pace. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 22:21:31
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I've always wanted a little button that says "I Look Better Than I Feel."
you haven't seen me for a few years though, Tom.
Thanks anyway. 
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 05:21:32
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I laughed because for a long time I'd literally have chosen looking well to feeling it. I'm so old and ugly now it doesn't matter any more. Which is freeing, if depressing.
Were it I, I'd assume a long recovery. I'm sure there are cancer forums in which they discuss this sort of thing. Assuming TMs involves a whole bunch of additional problems as in,
1: I just can't quite fully believe, or
2: I do fully believe and it's not going away, so how come? or
3: I'm journaling my ass off and it's not helping
etc. etc...
Advice is cheap, but since I'm a veteran of a long, chronic, mystery illness myself, perhaps you'll forgive the presumption: endeavor to the extent possible to give yourself permission to be sick. TRy to make friends with it. You have to find a way to take the pressure off yourself. I really truly suspect you'll be improving soon in any case. Perhaps quicker still
if you find ways to make peace... |
Edited by - art on 07/04/2012 05:21:58 |
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Cunning, Baffling and Powerful
