| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fox |
Posted - 06/19/2012 : 07:29:50
Tell me what this sounds like...I walk up 22 steps to Sunday School class every Sunday morning with no sciatica provoked. But last night, I went up 30 steps to the second floor of the mall and immediately I got severe sciatica - which this morning is still with me...Other information - I didn't expect to have to go up the steps last night. I thought my wife and son were going to take the escalator or elevator. I was a little annoyed with them. I followed them up the steps - not wanting to be viewed as the wimp. I was afraid in advance that this might be "too many" steps. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 10/16/2012 : 08:36:27
Hi Eileen,
The exact same thing happened to me in 2000. You can read about it in my success story Success from 2000. I thought I was the only person to challenge pain. I’ve written in many posts about this, you’re the first to comment.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| EileenTM |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 19:29:31
My husband had horrible sciatica. He could barely walk and pain killers did not touch the pain. What worked for him was also really challenging the pain. At first he started walking a block and then jogging. He would yell at the pain to go away. Today, he runs half marathons at age 63, all thanks to Dr. Sarno.
I know Ace1 says not to fight the pain, but for my husband that is what has worked the best. Much like you set firm limits with an unruly toddler. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 09:34:41
Hi Fox, that sounds like a good idea. If you want to see an example of how intense it can be to break the TMS pain pattern, read pages 108-110 of SteveO's book about how he overcame sitting pain. The portion is titled: "Here Boy, Sit Boy--Good Boy...."
g'luck! |
| Fox |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 07:35:18
Still having big time sciatic pain problems when I try to go up a lot more than 12 steps. I walk an hour a day - up a lot of hills - this must be TMS conditioning. My brother, whose back pain was totally cured by Sarno's methods, said to fight back - but very gradually. He said to try my work steps in the following manner - down 13 steps and then back up the 13 steps on the first day. Every day add one step until up to 30 or so. If get pain back off a few days for the pain to stop and then try again. Sort of desensitization. This make sense? |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/30/2012 : 07:07:29
Thanks for the extremely helpful comments. Many of them really hit home...Didn't mention that I plan to try Freudian psychotherapy if ever have the money (may be one of the 10%, per Sarno, needing it for complete resolution of symptoms - but I am doing so much better than pre-Sarno when I look back and take the long view). |
| balto |
Posted - 08/30/2012 : 05:27:53
Hi Fox, in my opinion, I think you are too hard on yourself. You just let your thoughts and your emotions happenned without much guidance and control from you. You are torturing your body with your own thoughts and emotions.
I hope you don't mind I suggest that you should be more gentle and compassionate to your mind. Analyse your thoughts and choose to let go of the harmful thoughts and welcome more benefit thoughts.
For example, about your son, you should tell your mind not to worry about him. Tell your mind you have done a great job raising him. He is a college student now, bright future, healthy, and confidence. Congratulate yourself and be proud.
Then about the church steps. Stop thinking about what other people think, you have a little trouble with your legs due to tms, that's all. So what if you have to take the elevator, so what if you and your wife get there at a different time, so what and so what and so what... No big deal
Then about the meeting, hey, you are lucky to have a job, to have a meeting to go to. Look at all those unemployed and homeless people, they wish to be in your shoes right now... You got to be proud that you are contributing to your company, your society, ... You are useful and needed. The meeting will go OK...
I have not read Fred Amir's book, but I think if you challenge your pain with a peaceful and compassionate approach, you will come out a winner. Just keep remind your brain that all the symptoms are just tms, they are there because of your thought, your emotion. they will leave once you get your peace and confidence back. Just keep a "so what", "I don't care", "I don't give a Sh.." mentallity, look to the bright side of thing, count your blessing... you will be healthy again soon.
Hope you will soon.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 08/29/2012 : 08:38:17
quote:
Originally posted by Fox
Thanks for reminding me that TMS work is not just an intellectual process - you have to feel the buried emotions.
You know, there was a time in my life where I (think I) did a good job at feeling my emotions. I would say that I was more sensitive in nature before I joined the military. That's not to say that some of my TMS "causes" didn't start well before my military days, but when I joined the Army, I think I was forced to stop feeling my emotions for a short while just to survive...and and it became a learned behavior.
I got to a point where I over-intellectualize too many things. As a result, I think my TMS kicked in to full gear when I was injured (trigger point) and my body had an excuse to hurt. Interesting thought.
The worst part is that even though I say a lot of good things about feeling the emotions, I think it's one of the main points I still struggle with at this time. It most certainly is easier said than done.
And when I quoted you above...I used your corrected spelling of "intellectual"...out of respect mostly...but partly because it was fun. 
--
Dustin |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/29/2012 : 07:19:57
Meant to write "intellectual" process...Not very intellectual misspelling intellectual. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/29/2012 : 07:16:07
Thanks for reminding me that TMS work is not just an intectual process - you have to feel the buried emotions. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 08/29/2012 : 05:41:08
quote:
Originally posted by Fox
To answer the question about what I am doing to help myself -- Not big on journaling (too antsy?) but may have to give that a try, am doing walking meditation in the am as always, and thinking psychological, am thought stopping when have a structural pain origin thought, am listening to audio tapes in car by Sarno and a new one by Schubinger, am rereading Fred Amir book (do I take a chance again on that approach and face more intense pain? That is the primary question), have a stack of other TMS books laid out to read for the first time after that Amir book, have Sarno's DVD out to look at again, am throwing full range of full force air punches at home at times to let out anger and to show myself I can't make the pain any worse (may have to let loose on the heavy bag in the garage), going over my list of traumatic events from childhood to the present, thinking about current relationships...The pain subsided a bit this morning but came back this afternoon with full force (had long meeting to face and panicked that I will still have this pain when my son comes back from college to visit this weekend). This is a bit longer a spell than usual.
When you're going over your list of traumatic events, what is your intent and purpose? Have you ever allowed yourself to really feel the anger and rage and sadness and any other emotions associated with these events or have you recognized that these are possible pain points and just tried to acknowledge and move on? In my journey, I've learned that I'm not as forgiving as I once thought I was. What I thought was forgiveness was repression. I would tell myself not to be angry, to get over it...to move on and try to forget it. The problem is that you can't have true forgiveness toward these people and events until you have allowed yourself to really feel the emotions and get to a place where the anger has had a chance to "burn off".
Before I discovered TMS, I found myself in counselling because my depression was getting out of control. In the weeks that followed, I learned that I had some experiences from my youth that I would now say we're the source of repressed rage and anger. Back then I was told I didn't process those experiences fully and so they continued to evoke a strong emotional response when they came to mind. I think both statements basically say the same thing. I never allowed myself to fully feel the emotions and pushed them down.
The counsellor used a technique called EMDR to help me walk through processing the emotions. EMDR is supposed to help you fully process the emotions by stimulating both sides of the brain while you concentrate on events or emotions. It's a process...it's not instantaneous, but as I learned about TMS I realized it was just one of many techniques out there to get me to analyze, focus on and experience my emotions. you have to allow your mind to go through certain emotions until you can get to a place of forgiveness..not just a place of, "I don't want to think about it anymore so I'm going to forgive and forget"...rather a place of "no matter how much pain or anguish xyz caused me...it's now in my past and I have drained off the emotions. There's nothing left to do but forgive...and let go."
Whether that technique is EMDR, or EFT, or hypnotherapy, or journaling, or visualization, or guided imagery...the end target is you have to FEEL the emotions. You have to. If you don't, they'll never discharge. Then you have to feed yourself some positive emotions...again, through some of the above listed techniques, or Ace1's suggestions of mind power, or listening to music or comedy or playing games or getting on Skype with your son, or taking a walk and allowing yourself to take in the beauty of creation around you...but get yourself to FEEL the positive emotions just like you did the negative emotions.
I'm rooting for you!
--
Dustin |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 08/29/2012 : 01:22:49
I still believe the lack of support is your trigger. Just my two cents.
I wonder though, is there any reason church would represent pain for you?
I also wonder what would happen if you went to the church outside of mass and practiced the steps slowly. Sort of like exposure therapy, alone. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 15:14:55
To answer the question about what I am doing to help myself -- Not big on journaling (too antsy?) but may have to give that a try, am doing walking meditation in the am as always, and thinking psychological, am thought stopping when have a structural pain origin thought, am listening to audio tapes in car by Sarno and a new one by Schubinger, am rereading Fred Amir book (do I take a chance again on that approach and face more intense pain? That is the primary question), have a stack of other TMS books laid out to read for the first time after that Amir book, have Sarno's DVD out to look at again, am throwing full range of full force air punches at home at times to let out anger and to show myself I can't make the pain any worse (may have to let loose on the heavy bag in the garage), going over my list of traumatic events from childhood to the present, thinking about current relationships...The pain subsided a bit this morning but came back this afternoon with full force (had long meeting to face and panicked that I will still have this pain when my son comes back from college to visit this weekend). This is a bit longer a spell than usual. |
| balto |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 20:13:19
I think you care too much about what other people think or how you look to others.
You've been on this forum a long time, you probably have read everything there is to know about how to get rid of tms/anxiety. You probably just forgot them. In time of extreme pain we sometime forget or prograstinate.
If you tell us what you have been doing in term of dealing with your pain, maybe we together can figure out what you have done wrong or forget to do.
Have you:
journaling, meditating, yoga, affirmation, praying, positive self talk, stress reduction, therapy,.....?
Anything at all?
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| mala |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 18:52:03
Fox, sorry to hear that you are in pain.
i don't understand why such a big issue over the lift. I mean if u want to take it that's fine. If your wife wants to walk, that's fine too. No need for either of u to be embarrassed about what the other is doing. So what if you arrive a couple of minutes apart? That's no big deal either. She can keep a seat or you or wait for you outside . As for what others think, why does that bother u so much.
What is really bothering or annoying you. Be honest with yourself.
Hope u feel better soon
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
|
| Fox |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 14:31:24
I should not have said "new age" - actually some of them are real, real "old age" - but one thing in common is that they are all structural/physical - acupuncture with or without electricity, chiropractic, taking various vitamins and other supplements, washing the disc area with saline (whatever that is called), deep muscle massage - I can't remember them all - I have tried them all out of respect to him and they have been ineffective. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 13:15:45
quote:
Originally posted by Fox
Oh, in defense of my Dad, he is the most supportive person I have ever met. The problem is - he doesn't believe in any mind body ideas. He is totally into the structural and "new age" alternative, nontraditional, physical and vitamin treatments.
I'm curious...because this statement seems "off" - but how can one not believe in mind-body ideas, but be into "new age" alternative treatments? Much of "new-age" treatment is mind-body and spiritual. Or have I misunderstood something?
--
Dustin |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 12:03:53
Oh, in defense of my Dad, he is the most supportive person I have ever met. The problem is - he doesn't believe in any mind body ideas. He is totally into the structural and "new age" alternative, nontraditional, physical and vitamin treatments. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 12:01:05
Thanks for the great suggestions...Tennis Tom - my wife for years has not believed at all in TMS. Lately, however, I sense she may be a little more open to the idea of TMS. I try not to mention my symptoms at all around her because she does not like to talk about any aches and pains - she is very stoic, I must admit, about her own physical problems. At some level, I admire this quality in her...In my family, only my brother (who lives in town and is a great friend and source of support) believes in Sarno - because of Sarno he no longer has lower back pain...He told me last night to go to the gym and suck up the pain (Fred Amir approach). If only this pain were less intense, I would try this. I do fear this pain because it seems off the charts while it is in effect. The last time I tried the gym (years ago) for this purpose, I made it through 3 workout sessions and I was in terribe pain for a week. |
| drh7900 |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 09:11:14
If you think you're "a little angry" about this...there's a pretty good chance your id is screaming and stomping and throwing tantrums about it...your brain doesn't want the conscious you to know that, so it creates the distraction. As TMSers, we have learned so well how to hide our negative emotions that we have actually learned how to suppress them to the point of not feeling them. That's the whole cause of TMS.
Are you doing any "TMS exercises" like reviewing the daily reminders or journaling? Have you worked with relaxation techniques at all? How about indulging yourself with things you love to do?
Find and feel your emotions and introduce more pleasure into your life...and then this, too, shall pass.
Since you mention church in your posts, I'm going to put a spiritual "spin" on this:
Jesus did three things when He healed the paralytic that was brought to Him. First, He told the man to be of good cheer. It would be pretty hard, as a paralytic, not to feel down and out and sorry for yourself. Second, He told the man his sins were forgiven. Whatever the man had done that he was feeling guilty about, the Son of God was telling him that he was forgiven...forgiveness is an important step in the TMS process. Lastly, He told the man to get up, pick up his bed, and walk home...there's no indication that He even touched the man...he just instructed the man to take charge of his condition by getting up and carrying his bed home.
In this one biblical story of Christ healing someone, we are given a very simple explanation of TMS healing. Positive energy, forgiveness, action.
--
Dustin |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 08:42:02
quote:
Originally posted by Fox
...My wife is embarrassed to go up the (extremely slow) elevator at church with me. I am 63 and she is 53. Only the old folks go up the elevator. You wait in the busy hallway on the first floor for the elevator and it takes one or two long minutes for it to show up - while most everyone else is buzzing by and going up the steps (right next to the elevator). You can see folks bounding up the steps because the steps are open to view (not behind a door)...My wife and I agreed after church today that she would take the steps and I would take the elevator from now on. I don't feel happy with this because I feel like a wimp and we will be entering the Sunday School class at different times - her entering first because the elevator, filled with really old folks, takes much longer than the steps...
...My 94 year old Dad, a supportive guy - an extremely smart guy - who does not believe in TMS - tells me that my body (my spine) is telling me that I have the physical capacity to walk up 12 steps but not much more...
What I'm getting from this is the lack of support from your wife and your dad. The biggest cause of TMS is relationships. I doubt if you can change your dad's views at 94 but is your wife TMS savy?--that your condition is emotional, not structural and how her lack of support is damaging to your recovery?
G'luck
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
|
|
