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kether
62 Posts |
 Posted - 09/30/2006 : 03:12:45
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Hi everyone,
I am really wondering if anyone else deals with any breathing-type TMS equivalents/symptoms? I have this deep gnawing pain on one side of my chest that goes right through to my back. it varies in intensity but is by far my worst symptom & the one I still battle the most. apparently many fibro ppl have this...
It often feels like my breathing is restricted on that one side, sometimes I choke when I swallow, there is a high pitched whistling sound when I breathe... it feels like something terrible (copd, enphysema, etc...) but every test from allergy, x-ray, CT scan to pulmonary comes back 100%. I do not smoke & had perfect breathing until about 3 yrs ago when this "breathing BS" started.
I have seen Sarno mention "hay fever" & "asthma" symptoms as TMS equivalents many times, so I know it must be TMS for those reasons....
Has anyone else dealt with anything like this?
It would really help to know that someone else understands &/or managed to banish it.
Thanks very much 
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2006 : 10:11:40
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| I had the same thing off and on with many other tms equivalent symptoms. The doctors could never find anything wrong and could never correlate this symptom with my others. Of course, no one ever mentioned tms. I used to keep going in so the nurse could listen to my chest. I was sure I had pneumonia. Always sounded fine. If you have been checked out and can find nothing, I would quit obsessing about it. Your brain wants you to dwell on it as long as it can frighten you with it. Treat it like all other symptoms and ignore it. Instead, try to focus on what might be bothering you enough to cause it. |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2006 : 10:36:32
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Hi K, Were there any changes in your life 3 years ago? New job? New house? New friend ... ending of a friendship? Eating habits? Exercise habits? I bet you know where I'm going with this
You made me remember my lung problems. It was around the time I worked for a complete bleepbleep! He was verbally abusive and hateful to me, it was unacceptable but I did NOTHING to stick up for myself, so I bet I developed pleurisy compliments of my unconscious. TMS! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Are you limiting your activity or your life b/c of this symptom? Can you try to stop thinking about it? Can you try to relocate it? Brady's book (Pain Free for life) talks about sitting down and consciously telling your brain to move it somewhere else in your body. You could play with it and then try throwing it out into the trash can?! Have you tried imagery?
Healing Hugs to you!
>|< Penny
Non illigitamus carborundum. |
Edited by - Penny on 10/01/2006 07:35:22 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 05:20:48
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Wow - YES YES YES I have that too!
Mine manifests as a feeling of restriction when I breathe that seems to come from my stomach/solar plexus area. This area, which also gets ulcer-like symptoms, is directly connected in my "experience" to the area of my mid-back where I have had my back "problem" for about 30+ years. Sometimes I feel as though everything works except my breathing, and I have oxygen to get round this because sometimes I feel as though I have been so restricted in my breathing that I start to get dizzy.
As I think about this, I think about the web of symptoms that I have had with my fibromyalgia which have made life seem impossible at times. For years and years and years I was on a constant search for a solution - to "heal" myself of my chronic illness. For example I would try to DO SOMETHING about the stomach thing, and go to a stomach doctor, or a chiropractor who would adjust my "hiatal hernia." Or I would go to a back doc to get adjusted, or a rolfer to try to work on my chronic back, or a naturopath or homeopath or psychopath to work on the underlying virus behind my chronic fatigue. People were always telling me about the latest healer in town or the latest nutrient that would cure everything.
I would get fed up of being ill and just push through and do stuff anyway. But then I would get even sicker in revenge because I wasn't dealing with the underlying causes. The amazing thing is that I WAS doing a lot of work on emotions and underlying beliefs, but somehow I still believed in my symptoms. As I said in my post in the thread about TMS: distraction or cal for attention, I needed the message about not pretending.
This whole saga was a very long nightmare for me. It fed a feeling of being hopeless, of being a victim (though I would never use that word), of being different, sensitive, trapped, unloved, etc. Especially when symptoms would move around, I felt completely imprisoned.
And the BREATHING thing! It still bothers me. I have to press my stomach in and take a breath - or wait for a natural breath reflex to occur because I am getting so oxygen deficient.
I still go to a brilliant homeopath, but it's for rejuvenation and regeneration rather than any diagnosis. He doesn't talk about symptoms in the TMS way exactly, but says that the breathing thing is a symptom of some neurotransmitter or other. And of course neurotransmitters are the molecules of emotion.
One of the techniques I used (as I have said elsewhere on this forum) to get better was to have my whole life fall apart with abandonment by my beloved, betrayal by him and many friends, losing everything, legal and financial hell - in other words a dark night of the soul so intensely, devastatingly stressful that it forced me to actually FEEL, fully and completely, the underlying feelings of abandonment, loss, betrayal and a sort of tragic aloness that my child is still holding. Yes, she was sick because that identity was possessing my so-called "body."
Does anyone have any suggestions of how to deal with the "breathing" thing TMS-wise? It seems so difficult to ignore as I get lightheaded and find myself struggling for breath.
I guess when it happens I could try the Brady thing of asking the symptom to move elsewhere.
I'd appreciate any suggestions about this.
Thanks
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2006 : 22:42:18
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Wavy Soul,
Have you tried Pranayama Yoga breathing techniques? |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 12:01:45
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Wavy soul, reading your post gave me goose bumps, I could have written it in all its details, your experience has been mine, having said that I believe that a lot of the symptoms are due to total body bracing, as a form of protection against further pain, physical and emotional, a kind of armor like shield that keeps all the emotions tighty in, sometimes I think that if I was to let all these fears and hurt out I would be too close to insanity, so the shield acts as a protection, it keeps the turmoil in my soul, does it make sense to you? I am not very good at expressing myself in English
There were times when I would go to emerg because I could not breathe and felt I was dying, they would give me a lidocaine cocktail for my esophagus and an ativan to calm me down, this would bring about an ease in my breathing as my muscles relaxed DESPITE themselves.
I have all the pain that you describe and one day I think the pain originates in my stomach, but then the back muscles are so sore to the touch and that doesn't explain the pain in my legs and lower back,the sinus problems, the sore throat, so I look into food allergies, vitamins deficiencies etc, etc, as I go around and around in my head and do research on the net, all great ways to keep the emotions from erupting as I am so busy with the physical, I notice that I always hurt more when I am less busy with family members and their dilemmas, the more I get to concentrate on them the less time I have to examine how I feel and the more I can pretend that I am on top of things, it seems that all of my life was devoted to helping people, everyone regard me as their rock, yet I caanot help myself , and feel so helpless trying to make sense of it all. I know that it is all tms, the fibro , the anxiety, the whole mess, I understand the principle behind the pain and feel that there would be hope for healing if only the stress in my life would let up. I feel that anyone can handle even chronic stress as long as there is some kind of balance, good news to make up for the bad, then again maybe I simply need to adjust my attitude and be more thankful for things not being worst than they are.
I am still stuggling and confused obviously, Dr Selfridge believes that emotions are creating chemicals that are creating pain in fibro, this makes sense to me however I wonder if these chemicals have not caused so much havoc in our bodies that we are now left with food allergies and reflux and what not , so that working on tms is not enough , maybe this is where reintroducing food and exersise slowly is beneficial , building up the body again with good nutrition , I know this is contrary to tms where one must ignore the physical but I believe that fibro is different, more damage to the body has been done, we are exhausted and run down.
I would appreciate any feedback on this issue, am I off track and if so why? Can anyone with fibro relate to my feelings?
Wavy soul thank you for sharing your story , the more we share the more light is being shed. Bless you all for that! |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:01:12
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Miche you are right that TMS is a "protection device" that our species has evolved to prevent us from explodeing in what would be perceived by our unconscious as anti-social behavior. Since we are social creatures we view this as un-acceptable and get TMS physical or affective, (emotional), symptoms instead.
This worked in the village and the cave when we were more dependent on group behavior but seems to be breaking down in the "moderne" world, where we can be free to be individuals and to long for change. The TMS epedmeic seems to be a response to a culture going through fast-lane changes and an execess of riches.
If you care to look at a couple of quotes I posted from the Good Dr's latest book in my "TMS in a Nutshell" thread some of this is addressed and one of his patient's even views TMS as the gift to reflect.
Sarno mentions that fibro-TMS is the same as TMS but only a more severe form of it, brought about by a greater need to repress. From my personal experience during my "significant depression" I could feel symptoms that I later self-dx'ed would be associated with Fibro or Chronic Fatigue.
If I had shopped enough docs, eventually I'm sure F or CFS would have been dx'ed. I went the psych route and stuck with the "signicant-depression" dx.
If you get enough dx's or read enough med or psych books you will find a complex that sounds about right and chameleon-like wrap it around yourself like a well-fitting glove becomeing the sypmtoms. That's how TMS works--monkey-mind see; monkey-mind do...voila, TMS epedemic.
You are also right that there are chemicals running around our bodies--many of them. Many of them are created by our emotions. Sarno mentions polyneuropeptides and all that. They facilitate the chemical/electical communications pathways through our bodies that make everything move and function--like adrenaline for fight/flight. There's a fluid highway running between our brains through our spines to our butts that the electo/chemicals travel around on moving back and forth exchanging info on senses and physical functioning.
I think with extreme TMS like fibro, maybe there is something like adreanaline exhaustion going on when we simply get to the point where we give up and have NO fight left in us. This is probably more due to mental exhaustion than physical--"The mind gives up before the body does."
In conclusion, if it's "fibro-TMS", it's still TMS, only a more extreme form of it. It's your unconscious's protective solution to what your mind perceives as a more extreme need to protect the rage reservoir from exploding.
Miche, are still talking physical solutions rather than emotional ones. You can do some paliative "fixes" to help get you through, like meds or soothing bodywork. They will offer temporary, short term tension relief. But in the long run the only solution for TMS is doing the TMS work that YOUR life situation requires.
I don't recall if you are getting psycho-therapy For fibro-TMS I would think it would be very helpful. You are stuck. Maybe you need to make some major life/relationship changes or "acceptances". The fibro serves as the excuse/distraction from having to deal with. Have you thought of at least a vacation, a short-term and acceptable form of "running away" for a while?
Some of the health spa's are good for dealing with this stuff and you can lose 5 lbs. a week to boot.
Good luck and hope this helps,
tt
p.s.
Your communication skills are excellent and much improved from your earliest posts when you first came on the board. Don't worry about expressing yourself, you are doing just fine.
How did you improve it or was it with practice. I was curious if you had gotten help in that regard or if you were using some language grammar/ spellchck program.
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Edited by - tennis tom on 10/04/2006 13:39:45 |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:13:18
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Thank you Tom for your reply, I agree with you about the fact that I don't have any fight left in me,too many problems to resolve, I don't know where to start so I give up, not a very good way to make progress. I used to thrive on finding solutions to problems, never doubting that I could always find a way, I suppose that one could say that I am depressed at times, chronic pain can do this to you, the old chicken and egg story again, I cannot afford a therapist at the moment, so I try to find fortitude in the knowledge that better days are ahead, and whatever problems I currently have will resolved themselves one day, nothing stays the same, that can be a comfort when things are going down hill.
Regarding my writing skills, I do not use spellchecks ( don't know how lol) nor any gimmicks, sometimes my mind is clearer and so I find that I am more fluent, other times especially when I am anxious or tired ,my mind goes blank and all I can think of is the French word I want to use,I also have a tendency to write words in the order that I would if I was to translate from one language to another, a little bit like the seniors who can remember the past in details yet forget what they had for lunch lol. It is called fibro fog and according to Dr Selfridge, something one must ignore .
I am sure that eventually I will win this battle, I just seem to need more convincing and more time than some members and appreciate the fact that none of you are losing patience with me. Sometimes I feel that all this dwelling on my problems, both physical and emotional is so selfish and I feel guilty, maybe I should just get out of my head and do charity work. other times I feel I need to dig so I can be a better person all around, there is a lesson to be learned I just don't have all the answers yet.  |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:19:27
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| And Tom , the vacation is a good idea, not feasable at the moment, but will keep it in mind, all your recommendations are good, thank you |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:23:50
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| It just occurred to me that I always feel guilty when I post, does anyone else feel this way? like I feel shameful for admitting that I am not the great coper I pretend to be for my family,. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 18:57:16
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I feel guilty sometimes when I post. I worry about taking over the board because I kind of do all my day's posting in a little block at work and people used to complain about Karen taking over the board a bit. And I sometimes feel bad because I am expressing unhappiness that the goodist in me thinks I should not have.
In a way, I look on being able to share at all as a success.
miche, I hope for all the best for you. Maybe your body is a little exhausted from the fibro stuff, but I think that if you take a recovery pace that's comfortable for you, you will be okay. Remember, Dr. Sarno says our bodies are strong. Once the mind stops messing with them, they quickly go back to being strong and healthy.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 09:52:13
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
I feel guilty sometimes when I post. I worry about taking over the board because I kind of do all my day's posting in a little block at work and people used to complain about Karen taking over the board a bit.
Don't feel guilty about it! Feeling guilty about it is playing into the hands of the TMS gremlin.
The pattern of seeing your name numerous times in a row is common and that's what happens when you are active. Then the next person reads and responds and their name is out there. After a couple of days it all is jettisoned to the far reaches of cyberspace--it's all very ephemeral.
Karen's was a special case. There was no rhyme or reason to her posts and she was all over the place with the same message. (No value judgement there on my part of course  ; if she's lurking out there, this should bring her to the surface--wondering how things are going in Jersey with her new boyfriend???) |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:43:04
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quote:
Sometimes I feel that all this dwelling on my problems, both physical and emotional is so selfish and I feel guilty, maybe I should just get out of my head and do charity work. other times I feel I need to dig so I can be a better person all around, there is a lesson to be learned I just don't have all the answers yet.
Hmm. I've been thinking about this. TMS feels so self-absorbed to me. Even being aware of it, I see myself replacing TMS with other coping mechs that seem equally self-centered. I've got a lot of life stress right now. The most since I figured out TMS about a year ago.
So this week, I haven't had arm pain, which is great. But, I've been either completely numb to feelings or feeling like I want to commit suicide because there's no point in living. I'm proud to say I can look at those thoughts and realize they are negative and realize it's just my mind trying to grasp at something other than TMS to distract me from dealing with my feelings for real. At the same time, these are thoughts that draw me into myself and have that same obsessive quality as the TMS pain.
Another coping mech has been being out of the house and with friends. But even then, I feel like spending time with friends is MORE about spending time NOT with myself or my concerns about work and home.
This is really disturbing.
So what's the deal? Are we selfish, self-centered? Does this come from self-esteem? How can we escape that?
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:45:58
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Oh, and speaking of guilt, I feel that too because I feel self-absorbed here, always wanted to air out my problems, but not really feeling able to offer support to other people in a generous way.
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 00:06:56
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Carbar, you are helping just by sharing your feelings, I can relate to what you are saying,so for me there is a certain comfort in reading your post, maybe the bottom line is survival, we go out with friends , we give in to our dark thoughts, whatever we do at times when, finding solutions to our problems seem impossible, is our way of coping for the moment.
For instance, I know my limits, there are days when I won't answer the phone when a certain person calls,he brings back too many bad memories, and I may not feel strong enough to deal with it, or I will let the bills unopened until I am feeling better.
As for feeling selfish, I do every time I post for myself, mostly because I feel my feelings should not be so important that I have to talk about them,perhaps like me ,you have always prided yourself on being available for others with no thought for your own needs, in order to do this you had to ignore your own feelings and yearnings, so that admitting that you have them seems almost shameful to you, you prided yourself on ignoring them for so long , at least this may be why I feel the way I do. I also make excuses for people all the time, like they hurted me because they don't know any better, or their upbringing was awful, or they are unhappy or sick, etc, I always find them excuses, I think that what we have to realise is that even if these people did not purposely set out to hurt us, they did, and we are entitled to be upset, our feelings matter also, we are entitled to feel hurt or angry or sad, we are only human |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2006 : 23:00:17
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Hi,
Don't know if this will be of any help, but I do have respiratory sx off and on, with no pattern that I've identified, though I guess I haven't really tried to keep track of what might trigger it. The pain I have is like one of my lungs (sometimes both) is very raw inside and I can only take small breaths. There is aching and burning. It feels like the pain goes clear through from chest to back. But, there is not any thing that I do to make it better, it eventually just stops on its own. I do drink warm, steamy cups of tea, which provides a little bit of comfort, but not much.
I have been severely ill for nearly 19 years with what was dx as CFS and Fibro, along with several other TMS equivalents, but I've always believed from the start that it was somehow related to mental stress. I never worried too much about the respiratory part because at some point I was told that it wasn't pneumonia or asthma (though I have what seem like asthma attacks when exposed to certain chemicals) and I guess I've concluded that if it's coming and going for no apparent reason it's probably not something that's going to cause me permanent damage. But it does really stop me in my already very slow tracks! I should add that now that I know about TMS I feel much more confident that my lungs, as well as the rest of me, haven't been damaged.
I think it's kind of significant that so many of us feel guilty about posting and that we worry about being self-absorbed. It seems to fit with the TMS profile, that we are so concerned with others needs and feelings, but push our own to the back burner.
Kether, I'm wondering if it could be something from the more distant past that's somehow been stirred up without your being aware of it that is causing the sx. Do you use a journal? If so, does that usually help you figure out what feelings are being repressed?
I'm sorry I don't have any great coping techniques to suggest for this sx, but since your tests have all been normal, I think you must be correct to believe that it has to be TMS. I hope you'll get some relief soon. It's frustrating to be pinned down by some extreme symptom, even if you know that it's not damaging your body and is just your brain playing a game with you. |
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kether
62 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 03:01:22
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| Thank-you for your kind reply Littlebird. I do find it interesting that basically everyone who reports this type of symptom has had the "Fibro" diagnosis.... also people who have costochondritis. I think it may have something to do with mild oxygen deprivation (TMS) but to the inner muscles we use for respiration. It is quite common among us FMS'ers from what I hear. It can be so painful. take care |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 20:44:55
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I know this thread is old but I totally feel like this especially right now. I get all the weird breathing things, smothering sensations, air hunger, hyperventilating, inability to take a deep breath, tightness in chest, light wheezing out of nowhere, tight tickly cough that goes away after a while, choking feelings, stomach weirdness, back pains, muscle tightness, shallow breathing and so on !!!
I get weird spasm type feelings where I feel like I'm smothering very slightly for a few seconds, too.
I have acid reflux and I've just seen my cardio guy last week and he listened to my lungs and all was fine. Week before that had Holter monitor for some palps and that was fine, too. Stress test last Oct which was also -- you guessed it, fine. I am taking prevacid 15 mg once a day and have had some acid coming up lately and A LOT of sinus drip like glue in my throat for days and days (I had a bad cold for about 2 weeks and I'm feeling I'm still not done with it).
Weird stuff, but I think a lot of it is TMS. It's making me so worried now though and I don't want to go to the doc and waste 100 bucks just getting told i'm fine. |
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Genshin
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2015 : 12:40:51
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Hi Jerica. I'm replying to a 5 year old post. It sounds a lot like what I'm experiencing. How did it turn out?
My breath feels shallow. Tight and tired in the chest/lungs because of obsession over the breath, trying to control it. Pain on and off in both arms. Took a heart stress test a couple of years ago and the docs found nothing thus my new doc doesn't think there's anything wrong with my heart. I am the typical TMS guy, and I know for 98% certain it's TMS but those 2% are keeping the TMS very much active :-[ |
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summabody
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2015 : 16:16:59
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| Dr. Schubiner said in a video on Youtube that another TMS doc that had worked in Iraq said back pain doesn't exist in Iraq, but respiratory TMS is very common there so yes, it is a common equivalent though perhaps *more* of a cultural one elsewhere, as back pain is en vogue here. |
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Genshin
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 09:06:56
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| That is very interesting, thanks for replying! |
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Respiratory Symptom Imperative
