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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2007 : 07:37:44
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Hi Art,
I know you mean well and you do have a lovely heart..but..you sound like a person who sees the glass of life as half empty..I, on the other hand, do my best to be an eternal optimist..Telling wrldtrv that eventually he is doomed to die of some fatal disease is not even accurate..Yes the statistics show that most humans will die of heart disease or cancer, I am aware of that..However, how we take care of ourselves, ie..exercise, diet, don't smoke, drink moderately if at all, social network, keeping stress down, etc..plays a HUGE roll in the quality of our life while we are here..We are not all destined to die a horrible death one day..Many simply die in their sleep peacefully..One of my psychology jobs after college was working in a nursing home, so i am going from personal experience as well..
I was on the Dr. Phil show about the topic of anti aging and he did tell me something i won't forget..We were talking about my fear of getting old and how i take a million vitamins and do my best to be healthy..He was saying how lucky i am to look so many years younger then i am..and how my healthy lifestyle must be contributing to that..But eventually i will die, everyone does..and..stress plays a role in our health and i need to stop worrying about everything..Sounds like the good advice you gave wrldtrv here..I couldn't agree more that he needs to start having some fun and stop worrying so much..me too..But i had to say i disagree with your basic premise i spoke of above..We have alot more control then many realize in the health of our bodies even in older years..
Take care,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 07:52:36
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Hi wrldtrv,
Below is a great article on worry..I am reading one on fear right now and if it is worth copy/pasting here, I will..Hope it helps you and anyone else who needs some help with worrying too much..:)
What, Me Worry?
by Lain Chroust Ehmann
Jerri Ledford knew she worried too much. She worried about her children. She worried about traveling. She even worried about worrying. "All my life people have called me a worrywart," says the Tennessee mother of two. "I thought that was just the way I was."
Fear, anxiety, and stress—such as that exhibited by Ledford—are all components of worry. Bill Crawford, PhD, author of All Stressed Up and Nowhere to Go, defines worry as envisioning something bad that might happen in the future.
"There's a difference between 'awareness' and 'worry,'" says Dr. Crawford. He likens awareness to the red light on the car dashboard; no one is pleased to see the light go on, but you can appreciate the message, as it enables you to take action to handle or avert a problem. Contrast that with worry, which Dr. Crawford says involves agonizing over situations about which you have little control.
A Blessing in Disguise?
Worry is typically defined in negative terms. However, some level is not only normal, but actually, is helpful.
"It's very adaptive and helpful to be able to worry wisely," says psychiatrist Edward Hallowell, MD, author of Worry: Hope and Help for a Common Condition. In fact, people with a complete absence of worry may seem calm, cool, and collected. More likely, though, they're in denial, says Dr. Hallowell, and can "get into a lot of trouble" by ignoring danger signals.
"Worry is nature's alarm system. It's sort of like blood pressure," he adds—you need some level to be alive and healthy. It's when the alarm goes off for no reason or the level stays too high for too long—what Dr. Hallowell calls "toxic worry"—that problems arise.
Chemical Reactions in the Body
Worry causes a chemical reaction in the body, triggering the release of stress hormones that prepare you to respond to a dangerous situation by fighting or running away. With worry, though, the dangers are often imagined rather than real. As a result, explains Dr. Crawford, "we have our body in this hyperactive mode, but we're not doing anything."
Not only have you wasted time and energy, you've also unleashed chemicals that can interfere with other body processes, such as the immune system, and actually hamper your ability to act effectively. "Virtually every system in the body is affected by toxic worry," Dr. Hallowell says. "It's very destructive."
Who Are the Worriers?
Worry is often a learned behavior. "Most of us are taught to worry. Some of us are taught to worry a lot, and some of us are taught to worry a little," says Dr. Crawford. Other people begin worrying more after a life trauma occurs, making them fear a repeat of the incident. And a portion of the population, Dr. Hallowell says, is predisposed to the behavior; "there's definitely a genetic factor. Some people are born to worry and it's in their genes."
Crossing the Line
So how do you know when your worrying has crossed the line? "When it hurts," answers Dr. Hallowell. You need to look closely at the sources of your worry when it holds you back from doing what you want, from making decisions, or from living as fully as you'd like.
Is It An Anxiety Disorder?
Chronic, unchecked worry can indicate an underlying condition, such as generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) or obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). At their extremes, both of these disorders are characterized by unfounded worry that is so severe it can prevent sufferers from functioning in everyday life.
There are some important differences between the two, says Justine M. Kent, MD, attending psychiatrist at New York State Psychiatric Institute and assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University. Those with GAD—an estimated 3-5% of the population—usually demonstrate a lifetime pattern of chronic worry about common, everyday stressors such as health, work, and family, but to an overwhelming degree. People suffering from OCD, alternately, have persistent, obtrusive thoughts focusing on one particular area, such as excessive worry about germs, says Dr. Kent. Those with OCD often rely on rituals such as repeated handwashing.
If you think you may have an anxiety disorder, "the first place to start can be with your general practitioner or your internist," says Dr. Kent. A combination of therapy and medication has proven effective in reducing anxiety.
What Do I Do Now?
If you aren't suffering from an anxiety disorder but want to minimize your worry, Dr. Crawford suggests examining the degree to which you use worry—or fear—as a motivator. For instance, if you use worry to motivate yourself to perform your best at work, refocus on rewards instead of punishments; envision how great it will feel to get that promotion rather than how bad it will be if you don't.
Dr. Hallowell also has several concrete recommendations for banishing worry:
Never worry alone. Making contact with another person and sharing your concerns is often the best way to combat incessant worry.
Get the facts. "A lot of times, worry is based on lack of information or misinformation," he says. Simply gathering data can help you develop a plan of action or even decide you don't need to worry after all.
Make a plan of action. By making a plan, you assume control of the situation. "Worry loves a passive victim," he explains. "The more you put yourself in control and reduce your vulnerability, the less you'll feel toxic worry."
Physical factors such as getting enough sleep, eating properly, and exercising also make a big difference in the amount of worry you experience. When your body is run down, you're more susceptible to letting your mind get carried away. Prayer and meditation can also help in calming runaway thoughts, says Dr. Hallowell. If none of these methods is helpful, the next step is to consult with a professional.
Though it's not easy to break the worry habit, it is possible—depending on how hard you're willing to work. Says Dr. Crawford, "I've seen people make amazing changes. It depends on how important it is to them."
RESOURCES:
Anxiety Disorders Association of America
http://www.adaa.org
Crawford B. All Stressed Up and Nowhere to Go. Florence Publishing; 1996.
Freedom from Fear
http://www.freedomfromfear.com
Hallowell E. Worry: Hope and Help. Ballantine; 1998
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 10:25:44
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quote:
telling wrldtrv that eventually he is doomed to die of some fatal disease is not even accurate.
I have no problem with optimism if that's your thing..The important point is that wrld will eventually die..You too...Me threee...
Sure, some people are lucky enough to die painlessly in their sleep, but most, I'd say the vast majority, suffer pain and illness as a prelude to the "big sleep." I'm not sure what your argument is here Karen... |
Edited by - art on 04/07/2007 10:26:07 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 11:13:13
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Hi Art,
It's not an argument..The last thing I want to do is argue..I am just talking about my point of view and what i have seen working in a nursing home..I think there are more people then you think that die in their sleep or from something other then a painful disease..That is my only point I am making..:) |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 14:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Hi Art,
It's not an argument..The last thing I want to do is argue..I am just talking about my point of view and what i have seen working in a nursing home..I think there are more people then you think that die in their sleep or from something other then a painful disease..That is my only point I am making..:)
That's a nice thing for those people, whatever their numbers, but I'd submit there are many different kinds of pain...I've yet to see a nursing home that was crammed with a bunch of happy, joyful people..
Whatever the particulars of your eventual demise, most people experience the losses of old age, provided they're even lucky enough to live that long, with pain and sorrow...
I mean, you can call me a pessimist if you want to, but that doesn't change this essential fact...My point to wrld, as well as myself, is that worry is fruitless...The things we fear the most will as likely as not eventually happen to us...There's liberation to be found in this, a kind of peace, if only we're wise enough to look for it..
It's the Buddhists' first noble truth: Life is suffering.. |
Edited by - art on 04/07/2007 14:19:39 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 17:20:34
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| Well...I consider myself fairly wise and yet I have a different viewpoint then yourself...I will stop there because, again, I don't want a thread to end up being some sort of religious, spiritual or other type of debate...You seem to like to debate, and that is your perogative..But I have had my fill of that on this forum, pretty much to carry me for a lifetime..I am just here to support others who need it and to get support..Also to stay on topic as much as possible... |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 18:17:08
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Thanks for the article on worry, Karen. I'm sure a lot of us found it useful.
Littlebird, I'm curious if you still have the weakness in the one leg as opposed to the other. Did you get it measured again?
Art, I remember your giving me the same advice last year about looking at things philosophically, disengaging. How did you manage to do it yourself? I know I would feel a lot better if I could do that, but the urge to ruminate (pseudo problem-solving) is fierce, like an addiction. One thinks one can somehow keep the problem at bay by worrying about it, like standing guard. It is sort of a superstitious stance, the idea that bad things will happen unless I stay alert. But of course, this is incredibly exhausting and wearing on the body and mind.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 19:20:21
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Thanks for the article on worry, Karen. I'm sure a lot of us found it useful.
Littlebird, I'm curious if you still have the weakness in the one leg as opposed to the other. Did you get it measured again?
Art, I remember your giving me the same advice last year about looking at things philosophically, disengaging. How did you manage to do it yourself? I know I would feel a lot better if I could do that, but the urge to ruminate (pseudo problem-solving) is fierce, like an addiction. One thinks one can somehow keep the problem at bay by worrying about it, like standing guard. It is sort of a superstitious stance, the idea that bad things will happen unless I stay alert. But of course, this is incredibly exhausting and wearing on the body and mind.
Exactly right...We believe that we can somehow keep evil at bay if only we worry enough...It's an attempt to control things over which we ultimately have no control..
As to me, I gradually came to understand that I was literally killing myself...The culmination, or nadir would be a better word, occured when I went on a water fast as a means to treat my eight zillion food allergies...Long story, but in brief I went on a panic jag two weeks in and came perilously close to a heart attack...
It's been a long road back...Part of the problem, I now understand, was that I had literally become neurologically programmed to worry and ruminate...Plus, I was now having to deal with the panic stuff..Gradually I'm learning to simply let go...Feel the fear then let it go...feel it again, let it go again...Deep breaths work for me, evidently anger works for armchair...And as a matter of fact, the first year or so I would have to curse mentally, and even sometimes out loud to break the fear/worry cycle...
I'd say I'm about 60 percent better at this point, and feel like I'm improving all the time...
You're a bright guy wrld, that's clear..You've got all the insights...But intellect cuts two ways...Remember you can't think your way out of worry...It is as I said, the physics of anxiety...For every positive thought, there is a negative thought...For the helpless worrier, the negative thought will always win...
Disengage, distract, and disarm...Stop fighting..Simply refuse to do so...Don't think....Breathe...
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Edited by - art on 04/07/2007 19:23:33 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 20:00:14
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quote:
One last thing. ACL, I think, said if I am going to journal I should do it about something that is likely to have a payoff, like what might be going on in my life. Well, what can I say, it's filled with incredible stresses of all kinds; anger, frustration, disappointment, sadness (that's a big one), and the biggie: FEAR.
wrldtrv, your wisest course may indeed be disengaging, as art says, but this paragraph suggests that you aren's journaling in a TMS-oriented way. The point is that YES, we do have these emotions, and journaling is a way to simply to spend time with these emotions, and remind ourselves that we are experiencing pressures, anger, frustration, fear, and what we are experiencing it about. It helps to get it out of your head and onto paper.
If you are journaling "rationally", trying to refute your fears about your symptoms, you are not doing TMS-style journaling. Your symptoms should not be a focus, your feelings should. If you are constantly refuting yourself, "calming" yourself, keeping yourself together, the emotions have no place to go, are stuck, and become symptoms. A journal is a place where you can express them and get them unstuck.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 01:14:46
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Wrldtrv, I haven't had my leg strength checked by a doctor because I haven't been back to any of the doctors I saw except my general practitioner and that was for something else, so she didn't give me any sort of exam that time. But my leg feels normal again. I can now climb stairs without help, even using my right leg as the leg that lifts my weight. Before I had to always step with the left leg first on each step, because my right leg wasn't strong enough to lift my weight. Plus I often had to have someone sort of pushing me along, with their arm around my waist. I avoided stairs as much as possible and now they're not a concern at all--I can go right up.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 18:42:18
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[quote]Originally posted by art
I now understand, was that I had literally become neurologically programmed to worry and ruminate...
That's it in a nutshell, Art. Worry begets worry. Add depression to the mix and it's worse.
I've actually felt better physically since about yesterday afternoon. I forced myself to go to the fitness center and work out, which turned out to be a good move because it improved my mood. Today started out fine, but by midafternoon, I was back to the worry and depression. Holidays are terrible for me since I am unmarried. The weather has been bleak. Add it together and I feel claustrophobic.
I went for a run a while ago, which usually relaxes me, but this time, despite my trying to change the channel, I couldn't help monitoring the left hamstring tightness. My imagination ran wild with the possibilities.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 23:30:32
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For a hypochondriac, there is such a thing as too much information. I work in healthcare and happened to be talking to a doc whose practice is a little on the alternative side. I asked her what she does that is different from more conventional practices. One thing she said she does is tests for Lyme's Disease. "What are the symptoms of that?" I asked. "Oh, it can be the same symptoms as MS..."
When I heard that, my heart skipped a beat! Now, something else to worry about, I thought. When I was only dealing with the fear of MS, at least I could tell myself I already had all the tests (twice) and there was nothing. Now, this seed of Lyme's Disease is planted in my mind. I was tempted to go to the internet and read the symptoms to see if I was a candidate, but I thought that would be the worst thing to do. Instead, I tried to reassure myself by saying Lyme's was unlikely because, with the exception of a few brief bouts of neuro symptoms over the past 6 yrs, I've been 100% normal. Anyway, I don't have the numbness, tingling symptoms people usually think of when they think of these diseases.
I feel like I'm on a roller coaster of thoughts and emotions and I want to get off. I've been very depressed since all this started two weeks ago. I know the CORRECT things to do about it, but of course, easier said than done. I feel like I need some strong medicine to get me to change my anxious brain, but don't know what that could be. I seem to be grasping at straws. I am particularly disturbed this time around because I see very clearly that I will never have peace unless I can beat this thing. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 23:34:54
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wrldtrv,
I really feel for you and can relate so much..Hypochondriasis is a very painful thing to deal with..I just wrote a new post about depression and I am hoping to get some perspectives on what I wrote..I am incredibly depressed lately and feeling very hopeless..I wish I could offer you more because I really do feel your pain..The other times I wrote you recently I was in a much better frame of mind then I am now..
Hope you feel better, I am routing for you..If you feel up to reading my post I would love to hear from you..You have always helped me alot with your replies..
Karen |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 08:27:49
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Wrld, I head the sadness and desperation in your writing and my heart goes out to you...But it's not all bad news...People of our, well, inclinations, probably have to reach bottom...We've an addiction to worry, and I think the standard AA addiction/disease model applies...Namely, and most importantly, that we must admit that we are powerless over worry and that our lives have become unmanageable..
Having gotten to this point, I recommend step 2, that we must come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity...You know me, so you know I'm not talking about God here, although for those who have that belief that's an advantage...In my case, the power greater than myself is a universe over which I have no control..Accept the inevitability of disease...Stop fighting it. Moreover, try to understand that this is not a bad thing...It's not something to feel ashamed of, or diminished thereby..
I think fear is like lust in that we very likely cannot control the initial impulse..It's what we do from there that counts...
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 12:58:16
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At this point, it's not just the worry about symptoms or what they could mean; it's the symptoms themselves that are so hard to ignore. Every morning I've been waking suddenly out of a deep sleep (too early) and then not being able to go back to sleep. For the next several hours I feel extremely jittery. There's a feeling of weakness, fatigue, sleepiness too. By night, I am much better.
Under these conditions (wired out of my brain)it's pretty hard to "ignore" the symptoms. I've noticed that even after a run I feel jittery, which is surprising. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
At this point, it's not just the worry about symptoms or what they could mean; it's the symptoms themselves that are so hard to ignore. Every morning I've been waking suddenly out of a deep sleep (too early) and then not being able to go back to sleep. For the next several hours I feel extremely jittery. There's a feeling of weakness, fatigue, sleepiness too. By night, I am much better.
Under these conditions (wired out of my brain)it's pretty hard to "ignore" the symptoms. I've noticed that even after a run I feel jittery, which is surprising.
You've had all the tests when this has come up before...I'd assume depression/tms and go from there...Depression disrupts sleep and would certainly (your lack of sleep from waking up too early) explain fatigue and sleepiness.. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 08:28:44
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wrldtrvl--
are you medicated? if not, you really ought to be. you are not going to be able to deal with your real issues if you can't calm the f--- down! I would highly recommend considering antidepressant/ antianxiety meds, despite what some purists on the board may think.
also, i think the dichotomy between "facing things" and "ignoring things" is a false one. the key is facing the correct things. what that means is completely ignoring the symptoms, and facing the emotional issues, which you've spoken very little about. go back to the source--repudiate the physical, focus on the psychological. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:09:16
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DrZiggles,
I know you meant well, but I think the delivery was a little harsh, especially the cursing part..Wrldtrv does not want to be a hypochondriac or suffer the way he has been...
Giving someone constructive criticism is very useful..but the delivery is just as important as the content, IMO..
I find most of your responses very valuable and even wrote to you once..You never wrote back, so I wrote again and you said that my letter was too long so you didn't even read it..I never replied to that because it made me uncomfortable.
In any case, I was probably projecting my 'stuff' in this reaction I had, so I decided to edit it..You are very valuable to this forum and all of us appreciate your taking the time out of your busy schedule to be helpful..
Take care,
Karen |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 04/11/2007 15:20:40 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 10:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Holy Cow, DrZiggles, I hope wrldtrv is more thick skinned then I am...That response was a bit on the extreme side, don't you think? I mean it is between you and wrldtrv, but I couldn't help but say something..I am sure you meant well and are trying to help him, but was it necessary to be that harsh? ie..saying "calm the f---down?"
You never respond to my posts, although many times I had hoped you would because most of what you have to say I find very valuable..However, if you spoke to me in that way, I would not be a happy camper. I feel it was inappropriate..Wrldtrv does not want to be a hypochondriac or to suffer as he has been..Giving someone constructive criticism is very useful..but the delivery is just as important as the content, especially in a board of this kind.
Karen,
I can only go by how I'd respond if I were wrld, and I wouldn't be upset in the least in what Dr. Z. had to say...
Not to mention, he's probably right. Wrld himself has said he thinks he needs medication...Two years ago when I was going through my hard time, I definitely could have used something to help me get past all the panic. I made it through anyway, but just by the skin of my teeth... |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2007 : 11:08:58
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Art,
I wasn't saying that medication wouldn't be a good option for wrldtrv at all..I was merely saying that the delivery that Dr. Z. used was too harsh and inappropriate, in my view...I also said that I knew that Dr. Z. actually meant well. |
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