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DiskPain
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 08:07:55
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If someone were to accept the diagnosis and begin doing physical things and then get paralyzed from a herniated disc, what would Dr. Sarno say. Why would doctors say that you could get paralyzed from herniated discs if no one ever does? |
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Baseball65
  
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 08:59:39
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That's a good question. Did you watch "Bowling for Columbine" ? It's probably a lot like the Halloween candy...we all know that there are wacko's out there who would put razorblades in apples,and poison in candy....and than when you research it,you find that the entire hysteria is due to one case,years ago where 2 people poisoned their own children.....and now a nation of parents are terrified at Halloween...I used to sort thru my kids bag...feel kind of foolish after watching that segment. I was told by 2 different medical practitioners that I risk paralysis if I ever ran again....I don't run like some of these health nuts on the board(puff,puff ) but in Baseball season,I'll certainly take out any second baseman who is trying to turn a double play.... I have never heard of a single case where someone was warned,and than ended up paralyzed or spinal cord injured.The evidence would be anecdotal at best. That would be a good question for a "conventional" dr......"Excuse me sir,but where is the Data on people who have become paralyzed from running or excercising?" I would say it is incumbent upon TheM to provide the answer to this question,not Sarno...they are the ones saying it...Prove it. meanwhile,whenever I want or need to...I run.
I read your other post as well.....It's been a bit of a realization for me this year that there is something about the Holiday season that flares all possible forms of The Mindbody syndrome...I don't know if it's the moral imperative to spend time with Family that we really resent (In-laws ) The ineveitable family tension and fights  or just a general let down after the biggest holiday of the year
It just seems that there is a lot of TMS breaking out and relapsing.
Hmmmmm
Peace
Baseball65 |
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Dave
   
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 09:19:01
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I'd like to talk to somebody who had chronic pain (not severe trauma) and was diagnosed with a herniated disc and then got paralyzed from it. I bet you can't find one.
If you fall from a 4 story building and land on your back, no doubt you can get a severe disc herniation that effects the nerves in the spinal cord. No doubt such an injury can cause paralysis.
The problem is with somebody who has not had such severe trauma, just chronic pain, and walks into a doctors office, gets an MRI, and is diagnosed with a herniated disc. Chances are that herniated disc has nothing to do with the chronic pain. The MRI might look identical to the MRI of somebody who has no pain whatsoever.
Discs are the shock absorbers of the spine. They are designed to move. They are designed to expand. Are you to believe that nature has created these amazing machines, with an incredibly complex structure that has survived for millions of years, but contain a "manufacturing defect" that the discs might herniate and cause pain or numbness? Are we to believe that these herniations can be caused by simple activities such as bending over to pick something up, or by running (which our bodies are designed to do)? It is totally preposterous.
The herniations seen on many MRIs are not pathological. They are normal. Our bodies are subject to wear and tear just like any machine; the parts have been designed specifically for that purpose. Our "shock absorbers" may look ugly from time to time, but they are doing their job. |
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DiskPain
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 11:56:18
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Thank you Dave. That helped a lot. I guess I tend to worry mostly that my disk gets aggrevated by things such as bending, sitting or lifting. Not that that injures me. I hear that disks can slip in and out of herniation. Is it not possible that disks can bulge in and out during the day and then slip back into position with rest? You know what, I am not even going to ask this. This is getting ridiculous. Ignore Me! |
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n/a
 
374 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 17:06:53
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Hi DiskPain
I've just been looking at some of your past posts and in one you talk about wasting much of the past three years.
I'm assuming as you have been having problems for that length of time that you have done all the things that most of us who post here have done - which may include the scans, the manipulation treatments, alternative treatments, the pain medications, the restrictions on movement advised by an assortment of 'back professionals'. Ask yourself this, have any of them cured your problem?
No - they didn't cure mine either (also herniated disc).
Another thing that you might ask yourself, if your disc problem was going to result in paralysis, wouldn't it have happened by now?
No - mine didn't either.
Years of conditioning make the whole idea that we can deal with back pain and loads of other pain conditions by a method we control ourselves a difficult idea to accept at first and it can take quite a long time to sink in, but give it a go - it worked for me.
Actually, I've just been watching an old Simpsons episode on television, called Pokey Mom, where Homer gets tossed by a bull, hurts his back, visits his doctor who tells him that modern medicine doesn't deal with sore backs, sends him to a chiropractor (on the quiet because officially doctors hate chiros), that doesn't work either. Homer falls over a dustbin backwards - back problem gone, the bin is badly dented so Homer calls it 'The Spine Adjustor' and starts up as a chiro. He throws Mo over the bin - back problem fixed. Mo is delighted and says that now his back pain has gone he can focus on his emotional problems.
Sorry about relating that, but I love it. I wonder if Matt Groening knows about TMS.
Best wishes
Anne
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Edited by - n/a on 12/28/2004 17:08:25 |
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pault
 
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 18:47:26
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D.P. sounds like part of your tms is insecurity |
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 07:13:56
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AnneG That was very funny about the Simpsons episode. I have not seen that one but it made me laugh when you described it. But it does seem to reflect the current treatment of back pain.
DiskPain Posts on how no one seems to be 100% cured of TMS and if people get paralyzed seem to me that you are having a very hard time believing TMS. I was given Doctor Sarno's book HBP 7-8 years ago by a friend. I read part of it and said it was BULL and he was nuts. When i read it again a few months ago...it made sense and it worked. If you don't understand and believe it, it will not work.
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tennis tom
    
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 09:35:39
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Dear DP,
I assume that you have an x-ray or MRI, on which a doctor pointed out a herniated disk. If I am wrong about that please correct me. I don't think anyone wakes up one day and says to themself, "My back hurts - I have a herniated disk." This conclusion comes from white-coat "experts", holding up images to a light board. I believe it to be the most dooming and damaging information that any of us gets.
When I got a phone message about five years ago, that my x-rays showed that I had "significant arthritis" of the right hip I was devestated and the message still does damage to this day, although, thanks to Dr. Sarno's books, I have managed to deflect the negative image to a great degree.
The reason the message did so much psychological damage was because I had been conditioned by my up-bringing and our culture to trust doctors and the medical profession. Fortunately, I din't change anything much and kept doing what I love doing, playing tennis.
I tried a myriad of therapies, A-Z - almost all having some soothing placebo effect, but none for very long.
I did see some more docs, and discerned a pattern, that they all came to the identical conclusioan based upon a quick look at the film and a cursory exam. That's just the way they have been trained. It works for most everybody. It keeps the waiting room from getting backed up, give an RX for some pain killer, if the patient wants more, refer to a surgeon. Can you imagine the delays in the waiting room if the doc talked to each patient for an hour about their relationships?
In our society we want a quick-fix - give me a pill or knock me out, cut me, give me the morphine and percodan and get me back out there. Many doctors have found out if they go the conservative route, the patient bails and sees a doc who will cut - they want the same things their friends got.
How different things would be for most of us if we had gone to our doctor and he had said, "There's nothing seriously wrong with you. Your backs a little tender and sore but nothing abnormal. Are you having some stress at home or at work? Take a vacation and relax and it will probably go away? If you're still having some personal problems, we'll get you some counseling to help you work it out? Most aches and pains are stress related." Has anyone ever heard that from their doctor? - I doubt it.
The more I read Sarno and the more dox I shopped my x-rays to, the more amusing it got to hear the identical diagnosis based upon a 90 second exam - medical party line.
TMS is not about a quick-fix, although I got a major "cure" after accidentaly finding Sarno in the book store and reading most of MIND OVER BACK, standing in the aisle on two visits. TMS is about taking personal responsibility for ones health. Evaluating the psychological and physical evidence and not doing anything too rash. Waiting things out and seeing if they go away before running off and getting advice from someone you've never met and probably has little personal interest in you. TMS is mainly about life-long emotional exploration leading to personal growth.
If you can get a diagnosis from a TMS doctor, to cancel out the damaging message, of the original damning DX, that would also help. TMS thinking takes some time to be installed in the mind, after all, it may have taken a lifetime to install the negative buttons.
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Logan
 
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 13:05:52
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Anne G, I would almost bet money that Matt Groening is familiar with TMS. I've posted before about an episode where Homer decides he's going to be "nice" to everyone from now on, especially to Bart. Homer starts to grab Bart in one scene to choke him like usual but then stops and reminds himself to be nice. Suddenly these big knots start popping up on his neck like some sort of evil popcorn. It's hilarious. And a scene we "goodists" can empathize with! |
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Carol

91 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 17:44:47
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Hi TT (and everyone else).
I agree with the harm that the doctor or other medical professional can do with his/her words. I do have to relate a very hopeful story from a friend though. She was going through a very stressful time with her father, who was in the final stages of life. She was caring for him, and developed back pain. When she saw her doctor (a woman by the way), the doctor first asked her about stresses in her life. She told the doctor of caring for her dying father, and how difficult it was. The doctor told her that she felt the back pain was most likely due to the physical and emotional stress she was experiencing. She advised as much rest as possible, some ibuprofen to ease the pain, and to come back after her life settled down to normal if the pain persisted.
She told me this story after her father had passed away, and so had her back pain. I told her that she had a very wise doctor. If we lived nearby I would switch to that lady! Maybe there is some hope for the medical profession, at least some small part of them.
Carol |
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