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sborthwick
87 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2010 : 07:29:25
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Hello all,
It has been a couple of years since I have been on this forum. My back pain has completely gone after 12 years of excruciating sciatica. I used Sarno's method and started to laught at it when it got bad....the challenging it method worked. It is wonderful to be pain free. It took me about a year to lose the fear of the pain - that is all it is - just lose the fear!
I am absolutely convinced and in full agreement with Hillbilly that the back pain is just a result of having an anxiety disorder.
I am a big fan of Sarno but I also really think that Claire Weekes hit the nail on the head. All symptoms are just results of having anxiety. Sarno's method worked for my back pain - but did not work for anxiety. I went to see one of his insight therapists and it really didn't work at all - in fact, it increased the anxiety alot - therefore giving me more symptoms.
I guess I am on the forum again to reach out to Hillbilly - who I am absolutely sure has the right answer and cure to anxiety and all these crazy body symptoms - basically the Claire Weeks approach.
Hillbilly - my only symptom now is insomnia. I am OBSSESSED with not sleeping ....so of course, I am producing more adrenalin throughout the night and cannot sleep. Is there any thing you can recommend?
I know the answer lies in losing the fear of the insomnia thoughts....but it is a really tough one.
Thanks
Suzanna |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:19:37
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You don't sleep because your mind is keeping your body on high alert. Your mind is never at rest, so your body doesn't do its normal thing, which is to loosen up, drop the tension, and restore itself. Your mind still has work to do when you get into bed. So what work does it do when you lie down? What's your mind need the extra time for? Figure this out. It should be easy. I suffered insomnia so badly that three nights out of a week I would not sleep at all. The reason for all of this was simple, but yet required a lot of energy from me to solve.
So I started thinking about what was making me so unhappy. I hated my job so I changed it — eventually, didn't happen right away. I hated the way things were going with my wife, so we sat down and ironed it out. I started speaking up in an effort to fix things with a sibling that I felt were unfair. These were the things that filled the small voids when my symptoms didn't have full focus. I had to come to a resolution about these problems or my health would never have recovered. Dr. Weekes' book has a chapter devoted to this. It is probably not the strongest part of the book, but it links the obsessive negativity in proposed outcomes of all the solutions your mind can muster to your continued symptoms. She advises to seek out wise counsel. I think you just did :o)
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:26:52
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I absolutely agree Hillbilly - my negative thoughts about sleeeping are keeping me awake - making me produce too much adrenaline etc.
I have often read that chapter by Claire Weeks but for some reason, I have a very hard time accepting and working through the negative thoughts that come at night time. The only negative thoughts I have are: "Oh no - I won't be able to sleep. What time is it? Should I take another sleeping pill?".
I recently switched to a new job in New YOrk - where I have to commute in and am getting up much earlier at 6:30 am. This is after not working for 6 months. I guess I do also think
"What if I don't get enough sleep...I will be so tired for the commute and will do horribly at work>"
I don't really experience anxiety during the day or have any back or physical symptoms any more. When they flare up, I just laugh at the back pain and it goes away.
A long time ago, I read "Say good night to Insomnia". Do you think I should return to this? I completely believe Claire Weeks but having a hard time putting it into practice |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:42:03
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What calamities do you see because you don't sleep? They haven't happened, and even if they did, you would survive. The thoughts are wrenching, I know, but I still think there is something bothering you. Watch for it at night, in between "oh no, I can't sleep." Dr. Abraham Low wrote a good deal about insomnia. He always told his patients that their health was remarkably good for someone who doesn't sleep at all. They maintained their weight, kept their house running, held a job, etc., etc. It was simply the obsession with not sleeping that caused the issue. It was lying awake trying to sleep that required the attention.
Here is an area that can be helped with pharmaceuticals. I am not a fan, but I don't see the harm either, so long as you are monitored by a caring physician, one who knows your history of stress problems. I know of one lady who solved it nearly entirely by taking a small dose of amitriptyline, about 25mg I think, and she slept like a log. She was also working on her issues concurrently, and she is fine now. Insomnia isn't any more dangerous than sciatica. It's a problem because you believe it is. Keep it simple.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Edited by - Hillbilly on 03/17/2010 08:42:22 |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:46:51
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I am taking the same medication - amitriptyline - about 10 to 20 mg. However it has awful side affects - weight gain and hair loss etc. I really think it is silly to be taking anything because I am a woman of really good health etc ....so why wouldn't I sleep like everyone else.
I guess I also just went through a rough breakup with a boyfriend 2 months ago and am sad about it...concerned I did the right thing. Honestly, I think about it too much because I am so tired and being tired makes you a bit lethargic and depressed...quite normal symptoms I guess. Also, we change the clocks back an hour and I lost electricity from a huge storm and had to sleep at a friend's house (I didn't really sleep)>
I know my problem lies in fear of going to bed - I am afraid of the fearful thoughts and the outcome of not sleeping. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:49:29
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and....II am thinking about returning home to live in England after 17 years away...this is the big question hanging over me...or whether to move to New York so I don't have to commute.
Hillbilly...are you saying that these issues are weighing on me and must be resolved in order for me to sleep? I don't think I am really thinking of these issues much at night. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 09:10:35
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It sure sounds to me like you are in constant quandary. Boyfriend or no, live here or there, gotta make the right choice, examine all the angles or make a decision that will leave me unhappy, sad, lonely, so stew. Stay awake to think. I think you need resolution. I think we all do when we reach these crossroads.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 09:29:37
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Probably a good point Hillbilly. I have a guy in Minnesota who is helping me practice the Claire Weeks method. He created a website devoted to helping people with anxiety and panic and cured himself of Panic attacks. He said that once my anxiety has calmed down, I will be able to make clear cut decisions really easily. I will talk to him about resolution on these issues.
I just turned 40 and am pretty much at a crossroads I guess where I need to make a change. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 11:34:19
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Is his name Jim Neidert by chance? He used to live in Wisconsin.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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johnnybill45
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 13:15:37
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First of all, Hillbilly, I like the way you talk (said with a southern accent like Carl in "Slingblade".
Second of all, why do pharmeceuticals to help sleep when a couple of shots of Jose, Jim or Jack will help ease the tension. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 14:50:19
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| Yes - his name is Jim. Probably got confused - maybe he is still in Wisconsin. His website led me to Claire Weeks (in addition to your suggestion here) What a find!! Now if only I could actually get good at practicing it at night time. I need to lose the fear of the fear |
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DrGUID
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 08:35:34
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Insomnia. I used to get this a lot before I knew about Dr Sarno and TMS.
I think TMS-related insomnia is caused by low or erratic blood sugar levels, which prevent the body from deciding it's safe to sleep. Perhaps stress/rage etc. plays havoc with blood sugar levels? My doctor doesn't think I have diabetes, which is a possibility with erratic blood sugar levels. Anyone with insomnia (particularly the type when you wake up in the night) should get themselves checked out for diabetes.
Anyway, the good news is that eating something or having a night cap seems to fix my insomnia. Sometimes I get severe insomnia. I don't know why this is but eating something bad is a possibility. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 15:01:19
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DRGuid,
Thanks for this. What do you eat before you sleep? I am pretty healthy and don't think I have sugar issues - but maybe I do.
My problem is that I think I am not going to sleep and psyche myself out |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 16:55:23
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sborthwick,
I too have had periods were I have trouble sleeping, or wake during the night with an out of control mind. I would suggest you start some for of meditation, and get something to help you sleep. Do this until you break the habit....about 3-4 weeks and then stop taking the sleepers but do not stop the meditation. I believe this will go a long way to solving the issue. We all seem to have crazy minds, we must learn to still them.
regards
D
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DrGUID
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 03:11:58
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Anything sugary will help me sleep. Eating oat biscuits (slow release energy) before bedtime is also good. A small shot of watered down spirits (gin or vodka) is incredibly effective - I think this is due to both the sugar in the drink as well as the alcohol being a relaxant.
I didn't find those natural sleeping pills very effective.
I suspect TMS and the mind has a huge effect on blood sugar levels. Maybe some doctors will investigate. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 08:25:40
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Hillbilly,
I am back to struggling with the insomnia again after such success taking a nice natural supplement - 5 htp. It is those darned thoughts again..."what if I don't sleep?.....oh no, I will be tired tomorrow and bad at my job"
I am already thinking about it this morning at work - worrying about tonight. I know this is keeping my nerves sensitized and I am doing this to myself -being bluffed by my own thoughts.
Do you have any words of wisdom? I imagine I just let the thoughts come, accept them and then go about my day. It is easy to do that in the day time but at night, it is another story. |
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TotalStrangerFigure
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 14:38:35
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| Why did you stop the 5HTP? |
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walnut864
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 21:20:56
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I used to suffer from anxiety and had several labels added to my medical record such as: panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, ocd, hypochondria, social anxiety, health anxiety, agoraphobia prolly a few more. I started having panic attacks at age 11 or 12. I started having back pain at 14 or 15. The the back pain got worse on and off through the years. In my second marriage I really went down hill. I developed, frequent urination, pain in the levator ani area, penial pain, severe epidimytis (check spelling), sciatica in the right side and several other things.
I read sarnos book and it was good. I took the online course with dr howard schubiner and by the 2nd day I believe it was I had total relief of all my pain and my fatigue that I had battled with for years had left also. For week I felt totally normal physically but, at night I was tortured beyond measure. When I would fall asleep I would have horrible nightmares of all kinds of evil things and woke up in horrible pain. I would use Schubiner's method and the pain would leave quickly. I would fall back alseep and same thing all over again. 1 week later I went to church with my family. When we got home I started to feel fatigued. By late evening I was in pain again and then my pain returned. Not too long after finshing the course I developed fasciculations (muscle twitching) all over. Pick a muscle and it twitched. I had this for well over a year. I still get a few lil twitches here and there but 80% better. I have defeated so many things using Dr. Schubiner's course. I also read Claire week's book and that was an awesome book and helped me in many ways to overcome anxiety! I read Brain Lock by dr jeffrey schwartz to defeat OCD.
I used to not be able to leave very far from home. Over the past 2 years I have come off of antidepressants and Klonopin which I had been on for about 15 years.
I go and do pretty much anything I want to do. I do not take meds. I will be attending a technical college in May. I had to make myself face my fears head on, day after day relentlessly.
The insomnia you suffer from sounds alot like the type of insomnia I suffered from that 1 week. Since I have been off of meds I do not sleep well at night. I was sedated for so long I feel like I my brains has almost forgotten how.
I know I wrote alot but I just want you to know that I believe you can beat this. People who know me have no clue what happened to me. They think its a miracle to see me the way I am now.
I still suffer with some chronic pain but I have not been able to beat these using a TMS approach. I have shoulder impingement in booth shoulder, lots of snapping and cracking when I move my arms, very painful and cant use all of my muscle strength b/c of the pain.
MRI didnt show any damage. I think the doc said that I had some a little overhang on some bone like a clavicle, Im not sure. and that it could be rubbing the tendons and all making them painful and inflammed. He said it could be corrected by a simple surgery by chizeling some bone off but, Im not for the surgery.
I also have alot of pain near my heel on the arch of my foot.It is swollen and inflammed. I seen a podiatrist and she said I could have torn the fascitis. but 2 xrays showed no abnormalities.
I had a cramp in the arch of my foot awhile back. I stretched my foot trying to get rid of the cramp and finally gave up and let it cramp. It tightened up pretty tight and I have been in severe pain ever since. Its worse some days than others. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 09:16:25
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Thanks Walnut - really nice to receive your support and encouragement.
Last night was a winner! I took my 5 htp, magnesium and some GABA - all natural supplements.What was so wonderful was that I didn't take any other medecine - no sleep meds - no anti-anxiety etc.
The really great break through was that when the thought "oh no what if I don't sleep" popped up.....I just brushed it off, labeled it as "that anxiety thing" again and it didn't phase me. I fell asleep like a baby. I am so thrilled!
I have been reading and rereading posts from Hillbilly and Claire Week's book every day on the train. I know it is going to take time to retrain my brain to stop over reacting to fearful thoughts. The trick is definitely in ignoring them - or not getting phased.
This was the same approach that I did with the back pain. I immediately labeled it as TMS when a spasm hit me, and just ignored it. I have had no pain in a few years after 12 years of barely being able to walk.
Last night was a beginning to build my confidence. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2010 : 02:13:27
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Hi
I used to be one of these people who never slept … to me it was just wasted time and burning the candle by both ends gave a light that nothing compared to and the kind of a life I wanted. I was told all sorts of negative things about not getting enough sleep: that you can never make up for lack of it , that you cells won’t be able to fight cancer , that I would end up in hell etc, you name it I heard it . The fact is it depends entirely of what frame of mind you‘re in when you do it.
For those of you who worry about what lack of sleep can do to you I’m sure that after 40 years of being deprived of sleep (most of the time willingly that is) it would have messed me up completely if I believed a single word of it but on the contrary I felt lucky and privileged to be able to do this and kept on doing it for as long as I felt okay with it.
Think about this for a minute:
You just met the person of your dreams and your life is about to change for the best you are very excited but you still have obligations, a long hours job, a long commute or whatever you cannot give up… what are you going to do? Forget about the chance of a life time? No way! So what’s the most obvious option? Yes of course you guessed it: sleeping has to go and you couldn’t sleep anyway coming to think of it or you would regret it your entire life so there you go … For whatever time this episode may last not sleeping is not a problem and if everything works out well your body will endure the abuse easily and make up for it by metabolizing whatever is available into the energy you need to keep the pleasure going indefinitely…
Now imagine that you need to give up sleep for a while or for a long time for a reason you don’t necessary agree with or not yet believe in enough to do it w/o side effects and you will yawn the whole day long waiting for bed time and maybe you’ll quickly get depressed and ill or at least worry about it.
The only difference is how you think of what sleep means to you; the rest is a question of quality for the little sleep you get. Have you ever heard of paradoxical sleep? I heard that NASA hired engineers during lunches on the basis of their ability to go for a long time w/o sleep except for the short bursts of paradoxical sleep during which the energy is replenished enough to keep on going for hours until the next ten minutes rest and on and on … and they do it .
The need for sleep is certainly a question of personality I suppose but I also strongly suspect that we are led to think about sleep in the same way somehow that we are led to think about our back being fragile and ready to give up on us at any time…
Chances are that if your mind can’t handle insomnia you will end up needing help but if it can you’ll think nothing of it.
Otherwise all of you who have been suffering from insomnia so far would not have survived so far if all you were probably told about lack of sleep was true.
I suffered from TMS in many ways and my nervous system took a beating a few times but it never altered my beliefs about sleep which allows me to still do what I want with it minus the potential problems and I think the reason for that is that I never let my mind slip on this one.
Trust you‘ll be alright and you probably will be.
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Edited by - catspine on 04/02/2010 02:28:34 |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2010 : 08:25:03
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Thanks Catspine. You sound like a very courageous soul.
I think part of my nature and why I developed TMS is as a result of way too much worrying about my health in general. So....it still continues on with my attitude towards sleep. Last night was terrible...I resorted to taking klonopin (which I hate doing). I started a new position in my firm today and was very anxious about it. I was so worried about getting enough sleep to perform well so- true to form, I psyched myself out of sleeping! I told my friend at work that I only got 4 hours and she said - "oh my gosh - that is not good for you - what are you going to do???" The answer is nothing. I will continue to practice not obssessing over it. I will sleep well tonight - that is for sure. |
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Insomnia......a result of anxiety
