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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2010 : 14:15:06
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Hello, I think this is my first post. I don't know. I have a kinda stupid question I guess but I wanted to ask anyways because I wanted to know.
I understand the whole it's psychological not physical, though it causes physical symptoms. Get that. Here is the situation. I have been doing pretty good the past few days, I always have little pains here and there I am trying to do the Fred Emir say I will not stand for the pain et cetera. Well we are at my Wife's parents house and they have a TERRIBLE bed we sleep on...it is hard and has a big wood slat between the bed and boxspring. Well, I woke up this morning with whole body soreness. I want to believe this could actually just be the bed, but because I know I am always tense I don't know what to think. A hard bed could do this right? The problem is its 411 pm and i'm still hurting all over. I have kinda been dwelling on how I hate feeling like it all day but it just feels like it never ends, I start making headway then the bed thing.
I'm sure I might be told it's not the bed but I just wanted to throw this out there. What else can I do?
Symptoms I have all time (unrelated to the bed except for currently)
Body pain
Back, neck, legs, piriformis, pelvic pain, knees (occasionally) feet, head weirdness/fuzzy head, tightness, GERD, headaches, et cetera.
I read Sarno, Fred Emir, I try to think psychologically, do relaxation tapes near every night, force myself to exercise et cetera.
Any thoughts?
Whoaday |
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SB57
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 14:31:37
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| Just from what you posted, I'll guess that chances are it's the bed. Especially if you've been doing fine for a few days and this pain happend after sleeping in that hard bed. What did Freud say? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Hopefully you will feel better when you get back into your own. |
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FSecondo
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 14:32:53
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This is similar to my frustration. There is always that lingering feeling that it could be the bed that did it, it could be because I ran with old sneakers, etc.
I do not have an answer for you; I do not have an answer for me, but I can tell you 100% certainty that one time I switched my grip on the way I hold a barbell when lifting weights and felt pain that put me out. I told myself it was not because I switched my grip, that it was TMS. In two days I went from walking hunched over to jumping rope, running etc.
I am having super difficulties now and this approach has not worked for me. I would like to hear how you approach it and your results.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 10:28:23
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You have fallen victim to conditioning. You gave TMS a perfect opportunity and it grabbed it.
You expected the bed to cause pain, and it did.
Now, it is certainly possible that an uncomfortable bed may cause aches and pains. But this should be temporary. By focusing on it, and believing it is caused by the bed, the distraction is working and your unconscious mind will continue to provide symptoms.
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 12:23:54
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Hey,
That makes sense, Dave. So how do I stop this conditioning. We walked through the mall today and by various massage places I have used in the past when my neck and back was tense, and my neck and back was tense this time too!
that's the hardest part I think, the conditioning huh?
Whoaday |
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TotalStrangerFigure
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 14:22:11
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I know people who actually take a board to put under their mattress when they travel because they can't sleep on a bed that's too soft.
Goldilocks? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 15:01:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoaday
that's the hardest part I think, the conditioning huh?
Yes, it is really just a bad habit that is tough to break.
When you are aware of it, just laugh to yourself about how obvious it is.
I suggest you stop trying to look for a technique or tool. There is no magic bullet. Everyone is different, and you need to find what works for you. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
The most important thing to do is ignore the pain. When you are aware of it, shift your thoughts to emotional issues, especially things going on in your life that might be affecting you deep down, even though on the surface you may think that everything is fine.
Keep doing this repeatedly and the pain will fade over time. Trust that this will happen and don't worry about how long it will take. |
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 15:38:35
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That's some good advice, Dave! Just very hard...I will start to get better then have a relapse and think it's all over again, talk of how I "hate" it and make it worse!
I realize that! I will do my best..the ignoring is hard cause there is so much advice. Some say ignore...Fred Amir said to understand it was there but ignore. Others say recognize it's there and just dont react to it with negative or positive emotion. It's complicated the mind.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I want to go look back and see how you recovered, it's obvious you came to this intuitively.
Whoaday |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 10:03:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoaday
Some say ignore...Fred Amir said to understand it was there but ignore. Others say recognize it's there and just dont react to it with negative or positive emotion. It's complicated the mind.
Again, don't try to make this too complicated. This is a common trap of TMS-prone people -- our intelligence actually interferes with our recovery. The desire to understand, to analyze, to find the "perfect" approach, is all just a distraction in and of itself and perpetuates the symptoms.
I think of the pain as a benign signal that there is something going on emotionally that is not fully known or appreciated.
You can't make the pain go away, so you just need to accept it. Welcome it. It is trying to tell you something. Try to figure out what that is.
Most importantly, accept that it is benign. It is not due to any structural problem. It does not mean there is anything physically wrong with you. |
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 18:14:43
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Thanks Dave,
When it hurts though, how do I accept it? Like accept that it hurts, or just accept the sensation? I don't know how to let it go?
Whoaday |
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swmr1
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 18:52:53
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I hardly ever post anymore but something occurred to me as I was reading this post. One of the things that helped me was to think of pain like the pain you experience in sports. When you get up and you are hurting, treat it like you'd treat the discomfort of a long run or weight lifting: push through it. Do the activities you were planning on doing anyway. Keep moving. Challenge the pain to see if it can keep up with you. Be the one in control.
There is a point, in sports, in the middle of a race where you hit what is called "the wall." It feels like you are so tired there isn't any way you are going to make it the entire distance. However, when you push through, you get a new surge of energy and find that you are much stronger than you think.
For me, pushing through the pain was crucial in the process of learning to overcome any fear of pain. Knowing I was the one in control made a big difference. |
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guej
115 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 07:15:26
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Swmr1,
That was a great response. I struggle with this too. It's ironic, but after I ran a marathon, I was in a ton of pain for a few days, but I thought of it as "good pain", and it wasn't on my mind all day long. Of course, back then, I expected the pain to subside in a few days. Same thing with all the aches after a long run or particularly hard work out.
The difference with chronic pain or TMS pain is that our brains have been trained to think of it as "bad pain". The pain I feel first thing every morning is really not that bad physically, but to me, it's 100X worse than post-marathon pain because it's there every day and I've come to think of it as non-stop, forever pain that is ruining my life. Recent pain research seems to be confirming Sarno's initial instincts from decades ago in that not being worried about the pain is key. Apparently there is a part of our brains that interprets the pain, and when it attaches negative emotions to the pain, that is where the problem lies in chronic pain.
I started to use your method a bit too in that I exercise a lot and harder, and try to chalk up the pain to just muscular achiness that I wouldn't have given a thought to a few years ago. It feels counter-Sarno because we're supposed to think psychologically when we feel pain, but I still think it's ok. It's a coping mechanism for me that allows to me to keep exercising and to lessen the fear somewhat. I don't loose sight of what is really behind this pain. I'm just trying to retrain my brain to not think of it as "chronic pain", which is so different from the day to day physical passing discomforts all humans feel. |
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 15:01:48
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That sounds like conditioning to me, good old TMS having a laugh at your expense. If you had some true soreness from a hard bed it would be gone a short while after getting up, not hanging round ALL DAY.
About a week ago as I was snuggling down in my bed I thought back to how it used to give me back pain and laughed at how ridiculous all that was, I'd be getting my husband to turn the mattress every few days, sleeping with pillows and cushions and waking every morning with a dull ache in my lower back.
Anyway a few days later I woke with back pain, and this happened for 3-4 days until I realised that I must have triggered some TMS pain with my memories. Once I realised this and reassured myself that my bed doesn't cause back pain, the back pain left.
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 18:03:22
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Thanks guys for the responses! So I recognize there is no right way but what are some ways I can break the conditioning cycle?
Whoaday |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 08:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoaday
Thanks guys for the responses! So I recognize there is no right way but what are some ways I can break the conditioning cycle?
Diligence, determination, and time. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 09:35:39
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guej wrote:
The difference with chronic pain or TMS pain is that our brains have been trained to think of it as "bad pain". The pain I feel first thing every morning is really not that bad physically, but to me, it's 100X worse than post-marathon pain because it's there every day and I've come to think of it as non-stop, forever pain that is ruining my life. Apparently there is a part of our brains that interprets the pain, and when it attaches negative emotions to the pain, that is where the problem lies in chronic pain.
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that is so my issue. the soreness from a great workout was never a worry to me; i didn't get scared of it; i shrugged it off. the chronic achilles pain that i have now is something that i think about 24/7. the first thing when i wake up until i go to bed. it doesn't go away. i get so scared this is the end of my running career - haven't run a step in 5 months because of this. "tendonosis" is chronic and might not ever go away according to medical establishment. even doctors say a rupture is better. i am scared to run on it because i think that it will make it worse and never recover.
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 10:50:40
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| I went to a relative's house for a reunion and because there wasn't much space left to sleep, I slept on a mat on the rug for 2 nights. I'm sore and in my case, it IS from the bed (mat). I've done this before and the soreness goes away after a day or two. Same after a long car ride. Not emotionally caused, not TMS. Like the other poster said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. While this may not be the case for you, please realize that a different bed/chair, etc. can put us in a new position that causes soreness. I hope you're feeling a little better by now. |
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guej
115 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 10:54:22
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HSB,
You wouldn't believe what happened to me. I have had chronic myofascial pain (TMS) in my right gluet for about 18 months now. Last summer, after seeing Dr. Sarno, I started testing the waters physically, and went back to even running, which I never thought I would do again. The pain faded a bit so it wasn't even there in the mornings. I worked my way up to 3 mile runs. I was ecstatic. I was still in pain later in the day, and I felt stuck, but things were better and very manageable.....then...
I felt so good I decided to go play basketball with some women at the local Y. I have not played a competitive basketball game in probably 20 years! Within a 1/2 hour of playing, my left achilles started to hurt. In my 42 years, and many marathon training years, I have never had so much as an ache in either achiles. I really do think the jarring and back and forth sprinting put a little strain on the achilles. After 2 weeks, it still hurt pretty bad so I went to a physiatrist I trust to check it out (I like him because he's quick to say, "you're fine...go back and exercise"..). He confirmed I hadn't ruptured anything but that achilles strains tend to take some time to heal. Very little blood gets down there..Well, wouldn't you know, my gluet pain started to come back very bad and 7 months later, I am still in much more pain than I was in last summer. Ironically, the achilles is 100% pain free. I called Dr. Sarno and he told me the achilles was TMS. I didn't believe him, but looking back, I think I had a slight pull that grew into something bigger because I was paranoid and worried all the time. Once the gluet pain was back up and getting my fulltime attention, the achilles pain went away. Unbelievable. Talk about the perfect distraction.
My husband (a 99% TMS-free type of personality) and my Sarno therapist have both had pulled achilles from playing basketball, and both told me it took them about 2 months to be back to normal. It is sort of a weird injury, but it heels. I think it becomes a TMS-type incident when we over-worry and allow it to get all of our attention. Now that my mind is busy all day worrying about the gluet pain gain, there's no need for me to even think about the achilles, and no surprise, I feel no pain. Even with this knowledge and experience, I still can't shirk off the gluet pain....Really ticks me off!
Sorry for the long email, but again, with the benefit of hindsight, "bad" pain seems to take on a life of it's own because we attach significance to it (end of running enjoyment, etc). If only we could shut off the thinking part of our brains! I guess that's what all the "re-training" our brains talk is about. I'm just failing miserably at not viewing the pain as "threatening". I think if we could neutralize our feelings about it, it would fade into background noise, and eventually fade from our attention. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 11:28:55
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guej-how true what you say! i had this achilles tendonisis in the summer and it went away miraculoursly after many treatments. i stopped treatments and voila - pain went away but 3 months later it came back. i had another mri with the dx of "tendonosis". that's not a good dx for a runner. as i wrote before a rupture is almost better (not really but drs. i think find easier to treat). i have now done every kind of treatment on it - PT, ART, rest, ice, acupuncture. it is still not better. the one thing i haven't done is wear a boot which i did last time. i have not run a step in 5 months but have continued swimming.
i do agree so much with what you wrote about attaching the significance to the thinking - my thoughts run rampant - i will never get better, my running days are over, what else can i do, why does it take ME SO LONG TO HEAL? this constant perseverating thinking is i believe the crux of it all. i am really scared to run again (a)not because of a rupture but that the pain won't go away; and (b) it will get worse but i am getting close to that point. 5 months for an achilles issue - most non TMSers are done with this 2 months max!!!!
thanks |
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 11:41:13
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Yea, I think it is clear, conditioning is the big beast. I work in a church and the Pastor has said this to me NUMEROUS times over the years that he "refuses to worry about something that hasn't yet happened." This is why he will never have TMS. He just doesn't worry about things, especially when it doesn't happen. And most often, as we all know, it doesn't. We struggle more with the seemingly endless issues than we do with the day to day. We can deal with it today, but the thought of dealing with it tomorrow or a week, month, year from now seems so bad and then we get tense. Somehow, we have to trust, live ONE DAY at a time, and it will get better. I think
Whoaday |
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Whoaday
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 16:36:07
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Today...I was at the church I was walking around and I thought to myself I might go for a run today...and within 5 minutes my back started hurting. I haven't ran in the a long time but I know on the surface the thought of it has made me cringe in the past I can only imagine on the subconcious...boy conditioning
Whoaday |
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Dave and others
