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Jackie

27 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2005 :  17:00:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have had leg pain for several years. It has been getting worst. At this point putting on shoes and socks...dressing..bending...climbing stairs...you name it, it's painful. My neurologist suggested Dr. Sarno's book. He said it helped him to avoid disc surgery.Several other doctors diagnosed me with Arthritis. I always felt that the Arthritis diagnosis was incorrect...so I didn't have any trouble repudiating the diagnosis.I am rereading the book.."talking to myself" and trying to sort out what may be repressed. I understand you have to begin to resume activity...but it is very painful to bend over to pick something up...or walk a long distance...do I just do it and reinforce in my head that this is just TMS? I've been at this for about two weeks.

My questions are:
How do you know if this is working?
How long does it take to see progress?
What was your process like?

Baseball65

USA
734 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2005 :  17:22:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
How do you know if this is working?
How long does it take to see progress?
What was your process like?


Back to front.....I was in constant pain for 18 months or so when I read the book,though I had suffered other manifestations and recovered via time and placebo a number of times before(neck,shoulder,back)

I was off work,so I had 24 hours a day to devote to recovery...I was pain free in 3 weeks,though I had recurrences and conversion attacks occsionally for a couple of years afterward...always diminishing in length as I got the hang of it(not necessarily intensity,though)

To see progress varies from person to person depending on the amount of repressed rage,their mentality and their work ethic as far as hitting the paper,the brain(repudiating the structural) and the resumption of activity......challenging the conditioning.

You know it is working when the symptoms subside or MOVE(that means the ploy is failing and trying some other distraction)....at two weeks I'd have to know how long you were subjected to the mythology of structural injury,how deep your anger and rage is and how hard you are working to combat it,to be able to even guess when you might see results....

There is no substitute for hard work against TMS

Sarno does say that it is best to see some resolution of pain and be fairly confident about the diagnosis before going back to the more strenuous activities,lest you scare yourself and have a set back...

sounds like you're on the right track....tell us more about your history and we can be as helpful as possible.

peace

Baseball65
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Colleen

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2005 :  18:54:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I felt it was time, so I went for a walk today with my husband,one of my children and our dogs. It was great to be outside with the family and all, but I could feel the burning pain in my feet. By the time we got back to the van, I was really hurting. Is this progress?
Colleen
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Dave

USA
1863 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  08:54:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Colleen

I felt it was time, so I went for a walk today with my husband,one of my children and our dogs. It was great to be outside with the family and all, but I could feel the burning pain in my feet. By the time we got back to the van, I was really hurting. Is this progress?
Colleen


Yes! Keep up the physical activity in spite of the pain and try your best to ignore it. Or better yet, treat it with disdain: tell your brain you refuse to fall victim to its tricks any longer.
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Colleen

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  09:08:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave,

Thanks for the supportive reply.....I needed that. When my husband saw how much pain I was in, he insited I get off my feet for the rest of the day......which is why I posted the question, "Is this progress?"

Colleen
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Jackie

27 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  17:03:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
You know it is working when the symptoms subside or MOVE(that means the ploy is failing and trying some other distraction)....



Baseball65
Thanks for your reply. All of this does make sense to me. I think I have already experienced some movbement of pain. My question now is about identifying the repressed anger. If rage is repressed, how do you know what you are enraged about? I can think of some things that may be buried...but honestly it is hard to get worked up about them consciously. These things seem resolved to me. I tried to make a list of things and I go over them...but I'm still not sure. Any ideas ?
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tennis tom

USA
4573 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  18:32:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Colleen,

Maybe try walking by yourself. When I returned to walking, I would do about 45 minutes. It would take about 20 minutes for the muscles in my hip to relax and for me to feel normal. I could not attain this when I walked with others because I would be involved with conversations or thinking about their pace.

When I walked alone I could feel the pain slowly subside as I thought about emotional issues of the day and resolved and rationalized them. Maybe it would work for you too, but make sure you can find a place where you are safe to walk by yourself.

Good luck,
tt
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menvert

Australia
133 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  19:40:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jackie
If rage is repressed, how do you know what you are enraged about? I can think of some things that may be buried


it is a hard concept, I found i had to make guesses/comparrisons more or less... basically 2nd guessing by experience.

I had to work out what happened in the last day previous to the pain & work out my 'emotional triggers' as i call them.
after a time you can learn certain thing will contribute to your rage...

one such example is i would get arm pain at friends houses... after it happened severaly times i was able to work out it was because I was ready to leave & go home but was too embarrased to asert myself & say goodbye. once i identified this its no problem anymore 'cause if it happens l know why & now i just think 'i dont care about you pain , now I know why'
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Colleen

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  20:22:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear TennisTom,

I had tried to walk alone twice but the burning pain set in immediately and so did my anxiety. I too think it is time to try again. Thank You!
Colleen
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Baseball65

USA
734 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2005 :  20:38:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
My question now is about identifying the repressed anger. If rage is repressed, how do you know what you are enraged about?


That is a good question,and some people never fully understand the concept as it relates to TMS.You do not have to find out what the repressed anger is in the majority of cases.
The fact that you are searching and aware of its presence is enough in most cases to retrain the brain that it's distraction/diversion is no longer working(and the pain dissolves).
That is,we no longer believe in the structural diagnosis,blame it on the repressed anger and search it out...thus eliminating the autonomic nervous systems "help" in distracting us from it.

However,some times after trying a number of methods,we do begin to get glimpses into its workings and ways.

A good place to start is in the relationships closest to us,particularly the ones where we are not "allowed" to be angry....a spouse,a boss,our children,an invalid parent etc.

Sometimes making a wild postulation(guess) at an absurd idea is a good route to take.

Anyone who is close to us and that we love ,is also going to simultaneously anger us.....start with something you would never have thought of or something that seems childish: "I am mad at my spouse for working to hard and neglecting me" ..."I am mad at my kids because I am morally compelled to put their needs before mine"..."I am mad at my sister dying of cancer because visiting and caring for her is an imposition into my leisure time and personal life"

It has to be something you never would think of....or else it wouldn't be repressed.

Mind you...I believe it is also the angers we are aware of that begin to stack up that contribute to the generation of anger and anxiety(traffic,finance,fighting,sexual frustration)

Pen and paper are a good place to start....

when you said:
quote:
These things seem resolved to me.


I instantly theorize that they are NOT resolved...are you angry with your employer??? Did you resolve it with "Oh well,if I have to make a living than I just have to ignore it"

If you resolved it with logic,it probably is NOT resolved in the unconscious...the unconscious is a ranting ,tantrum 'my way or the Highway' type of mechanism....reason and logic might appease your waking mind,but the child within wants revenge,satisfaction and justice....things that adult behavior prohibit us from attaining a large percentage of the time....

Take stabs,make guesses and assume you're right.The goodist/perfectionist inside you has been suppressing the way the tyrant inside feels.Your digging will partially expose this,you'll get an inkling and your pain will evaporate.

every single piece of advice on this string ,are all great methods....try them all ...they all work...some better or quicker than others for different personality make-ups



you WILL win....TMS is a coward and runs away when you make a concerted effort to confront the child and expose him.


peace

Baseball65
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Jackie

27 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2005 :  05:38:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Dear Menvert
Thanks for the insight...I saw myself.I think this sheds some light on what causes pain in the present. Sometimes I feel like all I do is work...the goodist won't allow me to say enough...but if I'm in pain well I have an excuse !
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Jackie

27 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2005 :  09:05:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Baseball65

Thank you for your response. I read it three times and then printed it out so that I can read it often. I have begun to see changes in the pain. As you wrote the pain moves. Unbelievable, but it does. I have started to have back pain. When I start doing the "self talk" it seems to go away. I started having pain at night. I found that when I don't sleep well I am less able to stand up to my unconscious...I get overwhelmed by the pain and discouraged. Now I take Advil at night. Could the unconscious be using the strategy of night pain to beat me? That is a disturbing thought in itself!


quote:
start with something you would never have thought of or something that seems childish: "I am mad at my spouse for working to hard and neglecting me" ..."I am mad at my kids because I am morally compelled to put their needs before mine"..."I am mad at my sister dying of cancer because visiting and caring for her is an imposition into my leisure time and personal life"
It has to be something you never would think of....or else it wouldn't be repressed.


This quote helped me to think about what could be a source.You are right being a "goodist" it would never occur to me to be angry about such things.


quote:
when you said: These things seem resolved to me.
I instantly theorize that they are NOT resolved...are you angry with your employer??? Did you resolve it with "Oh well,if I have to make a living than I just have to ignore it"....


You really hit the nail on the head with that statement...I was thinking about my job situation with logic. In reality there is nothing I can do....however I need to realize that it is not resolved in my unconscious.

quote:
If you resolved it with logic,it probably is NOT resolved in the unconscious...the unconscious is a ranting ,tantrum 'my way or the Highway' type of mechanism....reason and logic might appease your waking mind,but the child within wants revenge,satisfaction and justice....things that adult behavior prohibit us from attaining a large percentage of the time


I am beginning to get the idea about how this all works...I am convinced that I will win over the pain.

Thanks for your insights...being able to talk to someone that "knows the ropes" has been very helpful

Jackie




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menvert

Australia
133 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2005 :  15:46:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One concept i read recently on this board which helped me was along the lines....

If theres something you think is NOT a problem whatsoever. then it is HIGHLY likly to be a cause of issues. Basically an abscence of concious issues with something often means its all Pushed into to UNCONCIOUS.

Such as parents/children etc. :) Many of us conciously have 'good' relationships with our parents. But EVERYONE has parent issues :) so an absence of anger/resentment etc. is a sign that Likely here is a source of unconcious rage. so thats why looking back through the day helps...

i have symptoms after wisiting my sister... BUT only if my Dad comes along... it still took a LONG time for me to make the connection that my Parent issues are a large source of rage. & as far as i know conciously I get along very well with my father.

its is crazy journey learning our selves. & beneficial to more than just our pain issues.

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