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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  03:36:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I was a regular here a few years ago, maybe 5. I've been pain free from TMS/AOS/Chronic Pain for about 4 years roughly. Haven't really stayed up on Chronic Pain issue but I recently came a across a weird article which made me think about this place.

Maybe some here remember me, maybe I'm so old school "TMS FORUM" nobody here has any clue who I am.

Hello anyways!

EDIT: I was perusing the recent posters and some names I recognize, some I don't...but it seems to be a regular crowd that posts. What's the deal? Do newcomers say anything?

---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me

Edited by - la_kevin on 05/08/2013 03:44:08

Aussie

Australia
87 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  11:36:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi LA Kevin,
You were a regular before my time however like many who visit this site I have read old posts here and was very impressed and got hope from reading about your recovery.

My tms pain started off as minor but has gradually gotten worse and is now chronic and what I would now call severe tms. Very restricted in movement and fearful of anything that may bring on more pain.

All tests normal apart from a minor disc bulge that has been there unchanged for 14 years. I have been diagnosed with tms, have tried various things to beat this but se to be getting worse.

You seemed quite lost as I am in your earlier posts, any suggestions for someone who is where you used to be?

Thanks
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  14:08:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aussie

Hi LA Kevin,
You were a regular before my time however like many who visit this site I have read old posts here and was very impressed and got hope from reading about your recovery.

My tms pain started off as minor but has gradually gotten worse and is now chronic and what I would now call severe tms. Very restricted in movement and fearful of anything that may bring on more pain.

All tests normal apart from a minor disc bulge that has been there unchanged for 14 years. I have been diagnosed with tms, have tried various things to beat this but se to be getting worse.

You seemed quite lost as I am in your earlier posts, any suggestions for someone who is where you used to be?

Thanks



If all tests are normal and you have been diagnosed with TMS I would say to learn to accept the diagnosis fully. That is the major key to TMS.

"Trying" doesn't solve TMS. I've said to many people over the years I have mentored, that you can't 'beat' TMS. It's something you have to let go of fully. You have to literally live your life as if it wasn't there, or get to a place of complete surrender to it.

TMS is an addiction. Pain and pain talk is an addiction/distraction.

"Fearful of anything that might bring more pain"

Exactly, TMS thrives off that fear. You're experiencing pain already, why not face your pain and enjoy a walk with the pain? After that a light jog for a half a block. After that a bike ride.

That's how you face TMS, and after that TMS let's go of you.

---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me

Edited by - la_kevin on 05/08/2013 14:10:15
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Aussie

Australia
87 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:03:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that Kevin. Do you mean to just completely ignore symptoms and just not pay attention to the pain? Is this similar to challenging the pain or simply pretending it isn't there? I have a lot of trouble not reacting to the pain especially when it increases as it is doing now. Thanks for any advice.
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:15:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aussie

Thanks for that Kevin. Do you mean to just completely ignore symptoms and just not pay attention to the pain? Is this similar to challenging the pain or simply pretending it isn't there? I have a lot of trouble not reacting to the pain especially when it increases as it is doing now. Thanks for any advice.



You're having symptoms anyways. Which is better. Taking a walk with symptoms or sitting in the house with symptoms? If you accept you have TMS which is NOT a 'physical condition' then you accept you have a pain syndrome, and pain is a feeling, not a disability per se.

Ignore the symptoms, yes, they're ghosts trying to get your attention. Challenge it. Pretend you're saying "I'm going on with my life with or without you here".

You can't stop TMS without challenging it. It just WON'T happen. I can almost guarantee you'll never beat TMS if you don't go on with your life or take the steps to try because TMS feeds off that very act.


---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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Aussie

Australia
87 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:21:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin

quote:
Originally posted by Aussie

Thanks for that Kevin. Do you mean to just completely ignore symptoms and just not pay attention to the pain? Is this similar to challenging the pain or simply pretending it isn't there? I have a lot of trouble not reacting to the pain especially when it increases as it is doing now. Thanks for any advice.



You're having symptoms anyways. Which is better. Taking a walk with symptoms or sitting in the house with symptoms? If you accept you have TMS which is NOT a 'physical condition' then you accept you have a pain syndrome, and pain is a feeling, not a disability per se.

Ignore the symptoms, yes, they're ghosts trying to get your attention. Challenge it. Pretend you're saying "I'm going on with my life with or without you here".

You can't stop TMS without challenging it. It just WON'T happen. I can almost guarantee you'll never beat TMS if you don't go on with your life or take the steps to try because TMS feeds off that very act.


---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me





Thanks that's great advice. The problem I've been having for ages now is that when I excercise or be active this usually increases the pain. When I do just get on wirh things I often end up with more pain... This loop is replaying over and over again.
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Singer_Artist

USA
1516 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:23:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Kevin,
Nice to see you here..Don't know if u remember me, but I used to post regularly around 5 yrs ago as well..I am dealing w/ an ankle/knee combo of real injury and TMS kicking in..I stopped by for some support and things are a bit different here now..It used to feel like a sort of cyber family here and was very helpful and comforting..The past few times I stopped by, it's really only been Tom and/or Art that even replied which is disappointing, I must say..Anyway..nice to see you and so glad you have been pain free!!
~Karen
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:29:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aussie
Thanks that's great advice. The problem I've been having for ages now is that when I excercise or be active this usually increases the pain. When I do just get on wirh things I often end up with more pain... This loop is replaying over and over again.



Yeah...that's TMS. :) You have to BREAK that loop, over and over if need be.

Pain is a mindset and an ADDICTION. TMS is about addiction, obsession,fear, distraction, refusal to live life and challenge the unknown.

If you know there is nothing wrong with you, then if the pain increases, you know it's TMS responding. What else would it be?

AIDS? CANCER? "Spine problems"? Multiple Sclerosis?

It doesn't happen like that. Get off the Hamster wheel at challenge the pain, it's literally the only way for severe sufferers.




---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  15:31:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist

Hey Kevin,
Nice to see you here..Don't know if u remember me, but I used to post regularly around 5 yrs ago as well..I am dealing w/ an ankle/knee combo of real injury and TMS kicking in..I stopped by for some support and things are a bit different here now..It used to feel like a sort of cyber family here and was very helpful and comforting..The past few times I stopped by, it's really only been Tom and/or Art that even replied which is disappointing, I must say..Anyway..nice to see you and so glad you have been pain free!!
~Karen



Yes I remember you and thanks. It's rather close knit around here I notice. Maybe that's good, maybe bad. I wonder why many of the thousands TMS sufferers worldwide aren't here. There can't just be a select few.

Shrugs*

Good to see you too

---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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stayfit65

54 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  16:32:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi la_kevin,

Might I ask how long approximately it took for all pain symptoms to fade? Mine is ever so slowly getting better, but some days I have these flares and it is hard to go on with life with pain. It's been about a year since I learned of TMS, and although things have improved in many ways, I still have this lingering pain in my low back and in one knee. Do you think it is just going to take some more time? Doesn't matter anyway, I'm not stopping my activity, but it would sure be reassuring to know that some have healed more slowly.

Thanks,
Stayfit65
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Singer_Artist

USA
1516 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2013 :  16:37:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for writing back, Kevin..take care of yourself! :)

Edited by - Singer_Artist on 05/08/2013 16:38:33
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  03:06:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stayfit65

Hi la_kevin,

Might I ask how long approximately it took for all pain symptoms to fade? Mine is ever so slowly getting better, but some days I have these flares and it is hard to go on with life with pain. It's been about a year since I learned of TMS, and although things have improved in many ways, I still have this lingering pain in my low back and in one knee. Do you think it is just going to take some more time? Doesn't matter anyway, I'm not stopping my activity, but it would sure be reassuring to know that some have healed more slowly.

Thanks,
Stayfit65



It's hard to go on with life with the pain, I know. But in a sense TMS wants you to say and think that, because going on with life is exactly what it wants you to NOT do.

Without knowing your situation I can't say exactly what is going on.

BUT I can say that the pain 'lingering' after the major part is gone is a common TMS trait. Some heal overnight, some have the lingering for a loooong time.

From my research TMS has different classes of pain and cessation of pain/cure time.

Lingering TMS is usually because there is a mental factor of doubt still there.

1) Accepting the diagnosis fully. I don't mean NOT accepting TMS in the face of other evidence. What I mean is when ALL physical reasons can be ruled out, and noticing pain shifts or weird symptoms not explainable by conventional thinking....you accept you have a psychosomatic/autonomic disorder. This comes after an diagnosis by a Doctor trained in TMS/Mind Body stuff or your own research realization after all other attempts failed.

2) You have deep rooted childhood issues which were never looked at through your life or this chronic pain experience. My research/ experience shows these deep rooted thoughts are key, especially people with traumatic childhoods and not 'normal' TMS people.

3) Not letting go fully. TMS can't be beat. It can't be expected to leave. You can't say to yourself "I will be good when 100% of the pain goes, then my life will work". You can't say "I wish this last bit would go". Those thoughts KEEP TMS hanging on, I assure you. You have to challenge it and live as if you're GOING to have that last bit forever, call it's bluff and let go entirely.

I can't tell you WHEN the pain goes. From diagnosis to pain gone was about over a year for me. My last bit of TMS which was hanging on after improving from my therapist (Bloch) was gone in a week when I had major "aha moments" with TMS. I call them my TMS Master Keys/Missing Links, which work for every TMS sufferer, especially the severe sufferers.

Sorry to write so much but that's about the gist of it.



---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  03:08:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist

Thanks for writing back, Kevin..take care of yourself! :)



Thanks, you too :)

---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  03:14:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Additionally I have to say that saying things like "I'm so and so percent recovered" or giving numbers, time, anything with an expectation is not advised.

You have no idea how 'recovered' you are. It's a mental guess that could be so inaccurate or immeasurable it has no value.

Like when a Doctor asks "what's the level of pain"? Well hmmmm, it was a 4 but now that you ask I'm thinking an 8..lol.

You can't measure percentage of healing with TMS because it's not visual or traceable. And pressuring yourself to 'get it all out' makes it linger. Pain has to be a thing of the past for true TMS relief. The addiction/obsession with pain must be let go entirely.

Alcoholics can't have one beer every now and then and the TMS/Pain paradigm is the same in many ways.

---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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stayfit65

54 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  04:37:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, la_kevin. This is very helpful to me. I think I have been saying, "Once this pain is completely gone, I will be good." Maybe I need to say, "I'm good now. I am back to living my life to the fullest." Because I am and I'm never turning back.
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  05:11:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kevin,
I have recovered as well but I just want to clarify something and maybe we mean the same thing. In my case, and in many I have helped, if someone tries to fight the tms or challenge it, like for example, doing specifically certain exercises to "beat" the tms has always resulted in worsening. Now acting just normal without regards to the pain what so ever, with no specific activity to challenge the pain was what was helpful in my experience. Isn't that what you mean? I just want to clarify this point to the many suffering on this board. Thanks in advance for your response.
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la_kevin

USA
351 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  05:53:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1

Hi Kevin,
I have recovered as well but I just want to clarify something and maybe we mean the same thing. In my case, and in many I have helped, if someone tries to fight the tms or challenge it, like for example, doing specifically certain exercises to "beat" the tms has always resulted in worsening. Now acting just normal without regards to the pain what so ever, with no specific activity to challenge the pain was what was helpful in my experience. Isn't that what you mean? I just want to clarify this point to the many suffering on this board. Thanks in advance for your response.



Yes that's EXACTLY what I mean. In my experience you can't challenge it or 'beat' it. And if you do anything to beat it, fix it, make it better, anything to give it attention, even down to taking a pain pill or even a hot bath or stretching, you are fighting a losing battle. It has to be 100% like it was before you felt the pain, with no attention to it.



---------------------------
"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon

"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me
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Singer_Artist

USA
1516 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  07:59:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow!! Kevin...you really have some great words of wisdom here...I am so glad you stopped by and it happened to coincide with my stopping by..I am here only very now and then these days..I can be gone for months or even years at a time..You have inspired me..And..my ankle is noticeably healing now (it is a real injury)..I am not allowing TMS to extend the time I am in pain/disability..As for the knee..I am still a bit leery..but the good news is that it's not hurting yet this morning..Woo ho!! TMS be damned!!
Thanks Kevin..:)
Hugs,
Karen
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tennis tom

USA
4714 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  13:02:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Karen, judging by what you said here about your knee, I really doubt that you structurally injured it--very likely TMS!

==================================================

DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto

"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter

"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================

"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================

TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035


Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist


Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
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Singer_Artist

USA
1516 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  13:30:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think you are right, Tom..Now it seems like it might be coming from my low back..And the TMS wants me to believe that I injured (or irritated) my low back! It was already hurting and stretching helped..But the left side of my stubborn brain is saying "well, you have a real ankle injury and maybe you threw off your gail..hence the back/knee/neck pain too now...GEEZ this is maddening..I just want to feel good again...nooooo not good ...GREAT again..Thanks for all the reminders, etc..at the bottom of your posts..they are awesome!
Hugs,
Karen
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2013 :  14:24:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Kevin, I also asked the same thing on your recovery post. Why don't you tell us your master keys, if you haven't already as they may help more on this board. I listed my keys to healing on this site which is what i did to recover but maybe you can reach people from another angle.
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