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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 12/21/2015 : 15:36:26
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I have a very specific set of problems That so far no doctor can give me any explanation for. So after discovering Sarno I naturally gravitated towards tms because of not being able to get an answer from the medical world. But that doesn't necessarily put me in the correct place. I am here by default. The question I have is what is not tms and what is tms. It seems that everyone is trying to put everything into that pot without checking whether or not it belongs there.
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 16:18:21
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Simply put, if your docs are competent and they couldn't find anything structurally wrong with you then it's TMS.
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
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Edited by - tennis tom on 12/21/2015 16:23:15 |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 16:31:39
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[quote]Originally posted by tennis tom
Simply put, if your docs are competent and they couldn't find anything structurally wrong with you then it's TMS.
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TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Not so sure that is a sufficient explanation. What type of people were getting successful treatment from sarno? His office was in a metropolitan region so I'm assuming that most of his patients were white collar office workers or the like. What about people that have worked labor jobs for 20+ years? I had on and off pain for 15+ years of my life then about 5 yrs ago it turned to a chronic condition and it is now a daily thing. Not just here and there throughout the day, it's from being awake to going to sleep. Day in and day out. I've had 1 day on the past year with no issues (pain free), other than that life is miserable. When I was having issues periodically, tms may have fit the scenario, but as chronic as I am having it I don't know if tms is the answer.
Does anyone know what types of people were being treated by sarno? Is there anyone out here that has worked labor and now suffering from chronic back pain?
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 17:18:33
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Sorry I didn't give you the answer you were looking, for I'm issuing you a complete refund.
Cheers,
tt/lsmft |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 18:52:28
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Hi Abe,
Dr. Sarno was very specific about who he undertook as patients, those who were open to psychological reasoning, nothing to do with white collars or laborers. Still trying to define TMS? – good luck, you are going to need it!
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 18:53:36
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You can't blanketly state that if it's not structual, it's tms. Sarno himself said that structure has nothing to do with back pain. That is what I'm trying to get at. There has got to be something else, potentially. There is still 10%+ of people that he couldn't help, so there is something else that people are unaware of. I'm just trying to see if I will fall into that 10%, I don't want to waste my time with this.
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 18:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Hi Abe,
Dr. Sarno was very specific about who he undertook as patients, those who were open to psychological reasoning, nothing to do with white collars or laborers. Still trying to define TMS? – good luck, you are going to need it!
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception
Really? Did you work a labor job in your life or did you work at a desk? It makes a huge difference.
AW. |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 20:55:11
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That's the end of any free advice from me. I've given you thought-full replies based on my years of reading the literature and my personal experience, (doing all kinds of labor BTW), with narry a thank-you from you. You seem hell bent on keeping your pain, so be it. If you read your Sarno thoroughly you would have read that TMS is a PROTECTOR--a psychological DEFENSE MECHANISM--to protect one's ego against facing tough emotional situations--perhaps you fall into that category.
Well there, I've given you more thought-full advice--no need to thank me. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 21:27:29
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H Abe,
I am not here to argue or explain the ins and outs of whether you have TMS. If you have read any of Dr. Sarno’s books you should have absorbed enough information to feel a connection, as most people with unexplained health issues do.
You said:
"Really? Did you work a labor job in your life or did you work at a desk? It makes a huge difference."
I’ll say it again “No it doesn’t”. Perhaps you should re read Dr. Sarno, he gives samples of people from all walks of life. TMS is in your brain not your body.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/21/2015 21:28:18 |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2015 : 23:15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
That's the end of any free advice from me. I've given you thought-full replies based on my years of reading the literature and my personal experience, (doing all kinds of labor BTW), with narry a thank-you from you. You seem hell bent on keeping your pain, so be it. If you read your Sarno thoroughly you would have read that TMS is a PROTECTOR--a psychological DEFENSE MECHANISM--to protect one's ego against facing tough emotional situations--perhaps you fall into that category.
Well there, I've given you more thought-full advice--no need to thank me.
Thanks so much. You seem to be the forum know it all and when a reasonable, thought provoking question is asked you shut it down because I'm not a "believer". Please, grow up, this forum is not the tennis tom forum, it's a TMS forum. Besides that this isn't supposed to be a support group for "recovering" TMS patients. There should be no "recovery". You have tms, you listen to the truth about your condition, then you get better. No long term "recovery", this isn't akin to AA. So if I'm not getting better, I will question the tms thought because I need to find out the actual problem.
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2015 : 01:31:14
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Your questions have been answered, you just aren't paying attention or you're a troll--probably the latter. I'm no longer a GOODEST, keep your pain. There is another TMS forum, see if you can figure out where. Try your antics there, see what reception you get.
Oh BTW, what kind of education do you have? |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2015 : 06:17:10
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Wilcox,
I fixed a 30 year back problem by reading Mindbody Prescription. Funnily enough I was trying to fix something else and this back pain, after so many years, I'd presumed was something I had to live with, an unpleasant and occasional problem which recurred several times a week.
I think once you get to the stage I was at with the back pain - ie it was something I had to live with, no point fretting about it. Then that is the proof you need to know it is a distraction. Also I was a bit of a martyr with it, battling on with life without complaining.
The above sounds like the stage you are at, battling on with life, no support from the medical world etc.
According to the book, if I remember correctly, you have to carry on as if the problem doesn't exist, make no allowances, ignore any pain etc.
And it will admit defeat and disappear (possibly to recur once in a while to remind you what control your mind has over your health).
S |
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wilcox2969
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2015 : 07:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Scottydog>
Wilcox,
I fixed a 30 year back problem by reading Mindbody Prescription. Funnily enough I was trying to fix something else and this back pain, after so many years, I'd presumed was something I had to live with, an unpleasant and occasional problem which recurred several times a week.
I think once you get to the stage I was at with the back pain - ie it was something I had to live with, no point fretting about it. Then that is the proof you need to know it is a distraction. Also I was a bit of a martyr with it, battling on with life without complaining.
The above sounds like the stage you are at, battling on with life, no support from the medical world etc.
According to the book, if I remember correctly, you have to carry on as if the problem doesn't exist, make no allowances, ignore any pain etc.
And it will admit defeat and disappear (possibly to recur once in a while to remind you what control your mind has over your health).
S
Thanks Scotty dog, just want conversation here. We are all on a journey and it's a little different for everyone. What type of pain did you have and what did the docs tell you?
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2015 : 15:31:33
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Hi Abe,
I am glad to see Scotty’s answer elicited gratitude; we are all here to help each other, even though this may not seem apparent. In my opinion as someone who is doing quite well with recovery that the TMS personality wants to hear what they already believe to be true, no one likes to be told they are thinking wrong, this “thinking” is the protector that Tom refers to. He means well, he and I are just old TMS hippies from the 60’s era.
I don’t see myself as an expert on TMS, but rather an expert at my own recovery. It should be noted that I recovered from back spasms in 2000; this was before this forum ever existed. You should read my success story. Three years ago I was delighted to find this forum and realized my recovery was half measure and incomplete, indeed I was free from pain, but had loads of emotional physiological work to do. I learn and recover from TMS daily.
Many people have your dilemma when they join this forum. They question whether their pains are real. They continually discuss pain and symptoms because they have been through banks of Drs and tests, we are pre programmed to believe Drs and current medical dogma. When they are unable to help and fail us our lives become really unmanageable. The question what defines TMS should eventually be answered by you; your definition will be unique to you. The definition of TMS could be described as a coin, TMS on one side and Dr/Pharma on the other.
The other dilemma is what Dr. Sarno referred to as "ruling out the physical". This is very difficult for many, it as an ongoing effort for those with doubt, since you can never be quite 100% sure. This is the leap of faith I refer to. To see this in action I refer you to posts by Racer, Avik, and more recently Switters. Avik’s story and recent success is on the TMS Wiki.
I don’t want to upset anyone on this web site, your recovery here will take time, understanding and an open mind.
I wish you luck.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/22/2015 15:59:05 |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2015 : 06:01:57
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Hi Wilcox,
I think unfortunately there isn't a good answer to this at this point. We don't have internationally approved definitions here, and some of us use TMS to refer only to times when distraction plays a role, others only when anger or rage play a role, others for anxiety and yet others for anything emotional or autonomic overload. When you don't even have a clear definition of your subject getting to the next step, collecting hard data, is even more complex. This isn't to say the APA hasn't done some work. Somatic symptom disorders are in the DSM and are investigated, but there are both practical and emotional reasons many who are interested in TMS favor that angle over the psychological investigations of the same disorders...in part because of the stigma of accepting a diagnosis from the DSM.
And with TMS (or the more mainstream apa diagnoses) there is the very large difficulty that we are in part looking at diagnoses of exclusion. So the ability to get numbers to TMS are dependent on the accuracy of those other fields, which are always growing.
This isn't unique to TMS though. This is how all emerging research works...it's messy and starts at the anecdotal and small study level. You have to assess the evidence for yourself at this point and evaluate against a diversity of resources that you respect.
I hope this or something else provides you with a good answer. I got better quickly from rsi and some other symptoms following this regimen and I think there's something to it. I and several other people have also made what we later concluded were wrong calls on other issues with sometimes harmless and sometimes damaging results. Like the rest of life, a lot of it is just muddling through making the best assessments you can. But if you do go down this path there are some interesting opportunities for long term psychological growth that could be useful and interesting regardless of the "correctness" of the diagnosis. |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2015 : 09:09:42
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For the latest definition of TMS--What is and What isn't--see Dr. Sarno's last book, "THE DIVIDED MIND".
Read the chapters by Drs. Sopher and Hoffman. These TMS doctors, who contributed chapters to it, have some excellent information on what is structural and what is TMS/Psychosomatic.
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Edited by - tennis tom on 12/24/2015 12:01:41 |
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2015 : 15:49:04
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I do not come here much anymore just for occasional reinforcement. However I am the poster child for strange tms symptoms! No back or body pain for me because my psyche knows that unless I have had some kind of bad accident, it is TMS. Even the time another tennis player ran into me thru the curtain and sent me airborne thru a door, I was sore for a few days, but nothing more serious. And I was 60 years old at the time.
Anyway, my latest symptom was when one of my toes swelled up and turned bright red!
I don't have gout or anything like that. It lasted about a week until I figured out that I was feeling that some family members were "stepping on my toes". With that insight, it disappeared within an hour. I have also had severe gum and tooth pain that has gone quickly with tms thinking. Since my psyche is so electric, I have found Steve O's book very helpful. I remember how he discussed how he watched his hand swell up and then back down.
If you are new to this concept, it takes time to retrain your brain. And you have to embrace it 100%. My husband cured his severe sciatica in just a couple of weeks. He went my not being hardly able to walk to running miles again. We feel so grateful to have this wonderful insight! |
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what does tms not cover?
