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 RSI + Hypochondria = TMS?
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2010 :  14:58:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hello there!

I´m a 17-year-old girl from europe. Since I witnessed an accident (a guy fell in front of a train)last year I´ve been fighting wqith myself. First I had panic attacks..then hypochondriasis (health fears), then since octobre severe RSI (couldn´t type or writze without having severe pain; doctor said it would go away with ibuprofen or that I should cope with living with it. During this time my health phobia was quite easy to handle, almost non-existent. Then, after a very painful (mental and physical) search on the internet, I found the TMS approach from Sarno. I bought "TMP" and read it...now I´m writing these sentences with little pain, nothing compared to what I used to have 4 weeks ago. But: My health phobia is there again!
Is it TMS related? I´m having psychotherapy (helped me with rsi a lot, he´s very profesional and kept saying I could get better) but I´m still at the beginning, thinking abaout early childhood and so on.
Is there a chance to get rid of the RSI (now I´m having more pain .guess it´s the thinking about it) AND the hypochondriasis?

I´m writing on a laptop, with bad ergonomics but I guess that has nothing to do with it..? Still struggling..

thanks
forgive my bad english, not a native speaker..

Gibbon

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2010 :  15:19:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guten Tag!

Wo ist der bahnhof?

(sorry that's the complete extent of my German - 3 years of school lessons well spent )

I would say absolutely 100% the RSI is TMS related - and that your health phobia is an anxiety manifestation of TMS as well. Why? Well, symptoms starting after periods of extreme stress are a classic give-away. As are symptoms "swapping" where you have 1 symptom, which is replaced by something else. There are countless success stories from former RSI sufferers - many are here:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/Repetitive+Strain+Injuries+-+RSI
(for some reason my website which some of them link to is down today....so not all links may be working at the moment...crappy web host)

and here are some stories re anxiety disorders:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/Anxiety+Disorders

Doing TMS techniques cured my RSI and my tinnitus - who'd have thought that they would be related?

Edited by - Gibbon on 05/27/2010 15:20:02
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2010 :  15:38:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well Gibbon, at least you tried and can ask your way to the train station :P

I think it is all TMS..i want to believe it but sometimes my mind want me to think its something physical (altough I had x-rays; blood-tests etc. that come back clear)..thats the mechanism of TMS!
Tomorrow I`m going to buy a exercise book for journaling. I´m positive about my future, that it is going to go away once I ..I don´t know..I realized my feelings. I guess that accident caused a lot of feelings..

I must admit that I`m angry at the accident guy, even tough he`s the one that had had the injury etc. but..I´m angry at him for well..for traumatising me to a certain degree..I feel ashamed by feeling so.
That can cause a lot of repressing, huh?
Hate it...totally hate it.
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Singer_Artist

USA
1516 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2010 :  21:08:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Lindaleyner,
Just want to offer some support and healing wishes for you as I am currently going through my own wrist hell! And, prior to the onset of my recent extreme symptoms, I too had a ton of stress and still do..You are not alone!

Hi Gibbon,
I have tinnitus as well from being in bands my whole life..Crashing drum symbols in my ears wasn't a good thing..I thought it was physical, and I just live with it by sleeping with a white noise machine..That's wonderful that you cured yours applying TMS principles!

Karen
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2010 :  01:50:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your support! I hope we both will improve soon with the knowledge we have.

It was a very stressful year for me, with that anxiety, my hayfever, the RSI pain..at the worst time I tought I´d never be able to type again EVER. Now I´m doing some typing, but I notice that I´m still in the cycle of TMS: Fear of hurting myself - Pain - Fear of hurting myself further - more Pain...
.
I read the success stories and that gave me a lot of hope- Thanks
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2010 :  13:00:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I noticed today that I am very afraid of hurting myself for now, or some time in the future (things like runners knee, something on the spine, hallux valgus on the feet etc.) but mostly in the hand. I want to pick up a job for which I need my hands every day and well..I´m afraid of doing some damage..any strategies?

Do you think that things like e.g. runners knee are basically TMS? I read an interesting article that said humans were made to run and so on..so..how is e.g. a runners knee even possible?
You see, I´m afraid of ...getting myself disabled because I work trough the pain of my RSI.

Edited by - lindaleyner on 05/28/2010 14:52:03
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Gibbon

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2010 :  01:46:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner

I noticed today that I am very afraid of hurting myself for now, or some time in the future (things like runners knee, something on the spine, hallux valgus on the feet etc.) but mostly in the hand. I want to pick up a job for which I need my hands every day and well..I´m afraid of doing some damage..any strategies?

Do you think that things like e.g. runners knee are basically TMS? I read an interesting article that said humans were made to run and so on..so..how is e.g. a runners knee even possible?
You see, I´m afraid of ...getting myself disabled because I work trough the pain of my RSI.



I think you're in the midst of a conditioned fear response. Addressing your conditioned pain response simply means breaking the positive feedback pain cycle. We fear an activity because it causes pain, so the next time we do it our stress levels and awareness are heightened, leading to greater pain sensations and greater fear of that activity. This cycle can be broken by reconditioning our brains through gradual reintroduction of that activity.

Stragtegies:

Visualisation - visualise yourself doing an activity you have a fear response to. This coinditions your brain to expect it.

Targeting - make yourself small (and big) targets - by next week I will be able to write 500 words on the computer etc etc. Write them down.

Gradual reintroduction of that activity

Don't just ignore the pain, or fail to do the associated meditation/journaling - this will not work, because you will still be focused on the physical. Instead, treat any pain as a mental response - why has the pain started (not because of the physical activity - but because of your expectations that it was going to start). Greet pain with meditation. Journal about your state of mind. Start using some positive mantras "TMS is real, the pain is just emotional".

And absolutely i think any long term chronic pain condition which does not have any associated physically diagnosed damage is likely to be TMS. That includes runners knee - in fact i have that myself - i used to not do any running because i was so sure there was something structurally wrong (despite asymptomatic MRI scans), now if there is any pain before or after running i know it's nothing to worry about and it goes.

Hope this helps

Andrew



Edited by - Gibbon on 05/29/2010 01:47:04
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Gibbon

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2010 :  01:53:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and it's probably worth mentioning that Dr Schubiner in his excellent new book "Unlearn Your Pain" - talks about how he thinks that TMS is a subset of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The fact that a stressful/traumatic event set you off would seem to back up this theory.

He also talks about the importance of forgiveness in this context - easier said than done, but nevertheless, holding onto resentment or anger towards someone else (even the chap you saw fall in front of the train) is very damaging to your mental health. Learning to forgive allows you to stop the event damaging you further. He suggests journaling from the perspective of the other person - what was he feeling, thinking etc etc. Or writing a letter to him (unsent of course) where you include all the things that you want to tell him.

Have you bought any TMS books?

John Sarno's Mindbody Prescription and Divided Mind are great for general info.
Dr Schubiner's Unlearn Your Pain actually includes a 30 day program to take you through the techniques (you have to order this from Amazon US or from his website...)
The Presence Process gets great reviews though i haven't read it....


Edited by - Gibbon on 05/29/2010 01:54:22
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2010 :  02:53:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I´ve the Mindbody Prescription from Sarno, helped me a lot, you see, I can actually do some typing now, not much but it is something.

I actually thought about writing him a letter but then I thought that would be crazy ... Maybe I should try this after my daily journaling excerise I startet yesterday.

Thanks for helping Gibbon
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2010 :  11:08:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner
You see, I´m afraid of ...getting myself disabled because I work trough the pain of my RSI.


This fear is harder to banish than the pain itself.

It will take some time but you need to recondition yourself to think differently about the pain. Accept that it is psychogenic and that your body is strong and capable of doing these things that you fear.

I suggest to re-read The Mindbody Prescription and follow the treatment suggestions. And if you want to write Dr. Sarno a letter, why not? Even if you don't mail it, the exercise could be helpful.
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  04:04:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for encoursging me and give me some advise, Dave.
It´s hard to forget all the things I´ve been told about my hands. I used to play computer games in my spare-time (loved RPGS) but then were told by several people (in a RSI self-help forum) that my tendonitis would become chronic if I continued with it. And well, it did...but I´d love to play a new game that is being released in August.. I have hope that my journaling excercises etc. help me so that I can be able to play it.
The best example is my best friend. He love computer games, too, but he plays a lot more than I ever did. His ergonomics are non-existent and the game is very mouse-intensive and you have to react really fast. Sometimes he even plays without taking long breaks - but no pain problems in sight. He´s perfectly fine.
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Gibbon

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  06:39:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner

Thanks for encoursging me and give me some advise, Dave.
It´s hard to forget all the things I´ve been told about my hands. I used to play computer games in my spare-time (loved RPGS) but then were told by several people (in a RSI self-help forum) that my tendonitis would become chronic if I continued with it. And well, it did...but I´d love to play a new game that is being released in August.. I have hope that my journaling excercises etc. help me so that I can be able to play it.



There's your target then

Every day from now on start playing one of your RPGS - only increasing at a level you feel comfortable with. Maybe only 5 minutes to begin with, then 10 etc etc. Maybe even start with visualisation techniques before you even pick up the controller. When i first sat down to type on the computer without any voice recognition software by heart was pounding so much from the fear-conditioned response that i needed to spend about 5 minutes meditating just to get over the hurdle of typing at all.

Write down your targets and have them culminating in buying this game in August and playing it for 1 hour + with no pain. You really can do it.

Oh and well done on Eurovision! It's crap competition, but it was actually quite a good song



Edited by - Gibbon on 05/30/2010 06:40:35
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tennis tom

USA
4746 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  10:04:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner

hello there!

I´m a 17-year-old girl from europe. Since I witnessed an accident (a guy fell in front of a train)last year I´ve been fighting wqith myself. First I had panic attacks..then hypochondriasis (health fears), then since octobre severe RSI (couldn´t type or writze without having severe pain; doctor said it would go away with ibuprofen or that I should cope with living with it. During this time my health phobia was quite easy to handle, almost non-existent. Then, after a very painful (mental and physical) search on the internet, I found the TMS approach from Sarno. I bought "TMP" and read it...now I´m writing these sentences with little pain, nothing compared to what I used to have 4 weeks ago. But: My health phobia is there again!
Is it TMS related? I´m having psychotherapy (helped me with rsi a lot, he´s very profesional and kept saying I could get better) but I´m still at the beginning, thinking abaout early childhood and so on.
Is there a chance to get rid of the RSI (now I´m having more pain .guess it´s the thinking about it) AND the hypochondriasis?

I´m writing on a laptop, with bad ergonomics but I guess that has nothing to do with it..? Still struggling..

thanks
forgive my bad english, not a native speaker..





Yes your RSI is one of the infinite forms of TMS. You don't need to psycho-analyze deep into your past to find any gotcha' moment in the womb to be "cured". There is no "cure" for TMS, it's part of the human condition and the if there is a cure it is acceptance that the mind can and will on occasion play tricks on our physiology to distract from overwhelming fearful emotions.

The accident that triggered the trauma was last year and not in your child-hood. Ibuprophen may lessen the physical pain of TMS but will not erase the incident from your psyche.

By "professional" when describing your analyst do you mean cold and uncaring? If you are having panic-anxiety attacks maybe you should have something like Xanax available to help. You may need a different psycho-analyst who is tuned into psycho-somatic illness. Sarno recommends a certain type of psycho-therapy.

RSI is TMS, return to physical activity, people typed on manual typewriters for a century for long hours daily and there was no RSI back then, they couldn't afford it or they wouldn't eat.

Good Luck!

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  10:16:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner
The best example is my best friend. He love computer games, too, but he plays a lot more than I ever did. His ergonomics are non-existent and the game is very mouse-intensive and you have to react really fast. Sometimes he even plays without taking long breaks - but no pain problems in sight. He´s perfectly fine.


Good point. Learn from your friend.

You need to accept the purpose of the pain, and that it is does not have a physical cause. It is not easy, but it is step #1.
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  14:27:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you all for your comments.

@Gibbon: Satellite, yeah I like that Song :D
I started palying 5 minutes and it wasn´t that bad..I tought it to be more painful - like the last time I tried - but it was okay. Still pain - but that´s the progress.

@Tennistom:
He´s not that bad, I had a therapeut before, and she was just fixed with that accident and didn´t want to hear about my pains so i changed.
Since I´ve been working with him, I have been having almost no panic attacks anymore - I learned that it was just a normal physical reaction - nothing to fear.
I didn´t need any medication. Thanks for wishing me good luck :)

@Dave
Everytime I see him playing itä remembers me that RSI isn´t that physical-related - he had no pain, so why should I have some?


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Gibbon

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2010 :  15:41:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner

I started palying 5 minutes and it wasn´t that bad..I tought it to be more painful - like the last time I tried - but it was okay. Still pain - but that´s the progress.



Excellent! Noticing that it doesn't cause as much pain as you were expecting is the most important first step to deconditioning your stress induced fear response. I'm going to repost a post by Teddybear last year - they overcame their TMS through video games...

quote:
Relentlessly playing videogames is exactly what I did, after learning about tms. That, I assure you, contributed to my recovery immensely! I reconditioned myself by facing what a feared most: using my hands for an activity as strenuous and repetitive as gaming.

I urge you to believe me when I say that - after clearing healing back pain in one sitting one evening, approximately a year ago, I grabbed my nintendo ds the very next day, and started playing, intensively, relentlessly and excessively. It was my way of resuming the (physical) activities I had put on hold out of fear - not necessity - of the RSI. Since I could do everything I wanted to – it was but a dull pain, it was the fear that debilitated me - but I chose not to, so as to not aggravate my arms.

I have to admit that I was not fearless from the very beginning. I had conditioned myself to the point where not a minute would pass without me scanning and analyzing everything that could potentially aggravate my RSI. As a matter of fact, I monitored my pain levels constantly. When I assessed my condition however - after spending hours upon hours bombarding enemy tanks, gaining levels successively, scrolling through endless walls of text, and catching the occasional pokémon - I fortunately did not notice any sign of deterioration whatsoever. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. I was really relieved.

Needless to say, I didn't time my irresponsible gaming behaviour. Moreover, nearly a year passed since then, and the initial novelty has gone. Still, I vividly recall making excessive use of both my computer and my handheld relentlessly the following days and weeks.

Back then, I spent more and more time playing videogames, typing, writing, scrolling and clicking, everything with increasingly less inhibition. And the fear that enveloped me decreased. *In that order.*

10 months ago, I thought with dread of the years to come. As a matter of fact, I pictured myself carrying this burden for the rest of my life. To be honest, I was consumed by fear. In hindsight, it was the prospect of being handicapped by RSI permanently that debilitated me. Not so much the physical pain I felt. It was but a dull pain. However, the fear that it emanated was what truly suffocated me.

Simultaneously, I felt my life had just begun, yet it was already soiled by this sordid disease. I was really depressed and disappointed every single time I woke up in the morning, only to discover that the pain had neither decreased, let alone vanished. Since you are extremely young as well, I am certain that you can relate to my anxiety.



Remember you're not the only person to go through this - lots of people have and come out the other side - keep telling yourself that


Edited by - Gibbon on 05/30/2010 15:41:36
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2010 :  01:38:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh thanks Gibbon, that´s a wonderful post and describes me so well:
being young and have this fear of the future because of the condition. But he beat it and I´m on my way to do so to!
There are so many out there with RSI, unfortunately only a few have descouvered Dr. Sarno. But I am one of these lucky!
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  14:13:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It´s such a struggle. Incredible.
Wrote 1 1/2 pages in my journal today and got a "new" pain in my hand
just at the side where my hand lies on the table while writing with my pen. My mind said: It´s real pain, because it´s where the table do pressure on the hand...
But I noticed the hand is cold. That means, it feels like TMS. Oxygen deprivation.

This physical thinking keeps troubling me.
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  16:48:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner
My mind said: It´s real pain, because it´s where the table do pressure on the hand...


Remember, the pain will come in exactly the manner that is most likely to convince you the pain is due to a physical cause. If you believe some activity will cause pain, then the unconscious mind will oblige and give you that pain that you expect. This is a conditioned response, and it is critical to accept.
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lindaleyner

Germany
46 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2010 :  07:24:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This fight is going to take some time, right?
So how do I tell my family that I need time?

Yesterday was a terrible day for me.
I woke up and had extreme belly pain, I couldn´t even sit straight or take a deep breath. I needed an enema because my stomach was full of gas.
My family told me that I was a stupid hypochondriac for waking up in pain and because I went to the doctor. I´m really feeling depresed today, because I AM a hypochondriac with hand pain :( Today is one of these I think I´ll never get out of this hell.
The last 2 weeks were the worst since march. Had chest burn and fatigue and as the symptoms continued, anxiety. Everyone I talk to just says that I am crazy. And I´m feeling stupid myself. I don´t want to go to the doctor that often, but it still happens.

I´m so tired of this. I´ve read stories from people who are 30, 40 or 50 years old and have pain and anxiety. But I´m still so young..I´m wasting my youth with this crap.

Edited by - lindaleyner on 06/19/2010 07:26:35
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Dave

USA
1864 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2010 :  08:03:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lindaleyner
Everyone I talk to just says that I am crazy.

Maybe you are just talking to the wrong people.

It is too bad that you don't have support from your family, but you cannot let this derail your recovery. If you keep going back for more "punishment" by trying to talk to them about it, then perhaps you need to examine that aspect of your personality. Maybe there is part of you that likes the attention and drama of being called "crazy" and subconsciously perpetuate it.

I'm not saying this is true, but these are the kinds of questions you need to ask yourself. You need to look deep down and try to dig up the "dirty" emotional issues that are leading to the symptoms. If your family is not willing to be patient or understanding, then it may be best to leave them out of it and fight this battle yourself.
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