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Busted
73 Posts |
 Posted - 04/14/2012 : 23:40:53
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Hi, I haven't posted here in a quite a while. A couple of years ago I rid myself of my TMS back pain. Now my TMS has come back in the form of heel pain which I have now been suffering from for about 9 months, and I just can't seem to shake it. I've been treating it as TMS - meaning I have been ignoring it, walking on it knowing there is nothing structurally wrong with my foot and thinking of psychological causes opposed to physical causes for my pain. But it just seems to be getting worse instead of better :(
I'm 99% sure it's TMS, but here's the thing that's bothering me...and I'm hoping you can help me to understand this. My pain is definitely the worst in the morning when I first get out of bed. If you google "heel pain" "plantar fasicitis" or "heel spur" which are the physical diagnoses, you will find that most people with these "conditions" claim that their foot hurts the most in the morning when they first get out of bed. Here's my question....how would my mind know this prior to me googling these things AFTER I already had foot pain? It's not like this is common knowledge that my brain would know.
Thanks for any help you can provide. Maybe if I can ease my mind of that other 1% of doubt I can finally shake this.
Lisa
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 09:18:24
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It doesn't make sense that it hurts more after sleeping/resting it. To me, logically, it should hurt more while on your feet. My hip feels better after about twenty minutes of walking, but worse on the tennis court because it's stop/start.
Feeling the pain on awakening makes sense from a TMS perspective. Perhaps it's doing it's duty as a DISTRACTOR, like a dictator, sidetracking you from thinking about the day ahead that you might not want to be facing. Just speculation on my part since I don't know you.
G'luck
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 11:28:29
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The medical profession who diagnose heel pain as physical say that it hurts more in the morning because it hasn't been stretched all night. It definitely hurts when I walk on it too. I just can't wrap my head around how everyone with TMS would just happen to have the worst pain in the morning when they first get out of bed, since that's what is typically true of people who believe they have a physical ailment.
Any ideas/suggestions on this would be much appreciated!
Lisa
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 12:36:06
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Plantar fasciitis (heel pain) is almost always worse in the mornings. it stiffens up during the night, and the first few hobbling steps can be excruciating...
Your mind wouldn't know this in advance, but that's not to say it's not TMS. It's not to say it's not real, either.
I've had many minor bouts of p.f. as a runner over the years, and mostly I've run through it. Once it was so bad I had to quit running for a good year though, and I'm convinced it was real. The swelling and inflammation were obvious to the touch.
Not a popular opinion perhaps, but people do get injured. if you've been following TMS self-treatment (including not worrying about it) and it's getting worse, I'd consider resting it.
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Edited by - art on 04/15/2012 13:18:07 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 12:36:49
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Lisa, this is a tough one. I'm going through exactly the same thing, except that mine has been chronic and on/off for 2 years! It has changed locations over that time; originally right under the arch, now dead center under the heel.
Yes, the pain in the AM, getting better later, is the classic symptom. It all sounds very logical too. The fascia shortened during sleep and then abruptly stretched as you get out of bed. They sell night splints for this. It all sounds very logical. The problem is, the logical therapy doesn't seem to work. I went recently to a podiatrist who said I should massage it twice daily with a racaquet ball and then wear heel cups for awhile. Didn't work. Maybe even worse. Meanwhile, I have done quite a bit of running during the past couple of years with the pf, including marathons. Fortunately it is something I can run with. Doesn't get much better or worse for long.
I wrote to Dr Sopher who told me with absolute certainty that it was TMS and that anything I did to treat it physically would simply prolong it.
It is very frustrating, I know. One wants desperately to go the tms route, but it is hard to ignore the symptoms. Two days ago I developed a sudden knee pain and since then I have been worrying that I tore my medial meniscus, though I know only a sudden, traumatic incident would do that. Still, there's the pain.
I'm trying to inculcate the fact that hurt does not necessarily equal harm. Since all pain is in the brain anything is possible. Pain is nature's warning system, but often goes wrong, eg, "phantom limb pain." This is a difficult concept to get since most of us naturally associate pain with tissue damage. Sorry to ramble here, but I have witnessed the truth of this enough times to know it is true. |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 18:15:12
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| Thanks everyone. Good to know Dr. Sopher says it is TMS. I have avoided seeing a doctor, because I didn't want to be lead down the path of believing this was physical. I remember when the pain started, I was wearing a new pair of sneakers that are very flat and don't have much cushioning. Nothing traumatic happened to my foot, which leads me to believe the new sneakers were just an excuse my mind used to give me pain. But after 9 months it's getting harder and harder to NOT go see a podiatrist and try conventional medicine. Even if I believe so completely it's TMS. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 19:22:50
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I do not understand how Dr. Sopher can diagnose someone by letter if I'm understanding you correctly wrld. From the symptoms you describe, he's very likely right. Also given your history. PLus you're able to run on it. Still I do not get how he can use the words "absolute certainty."
Busted, I'll venture this one more time then shut up. This can be an actual injury. At a certain point if it gets bad enough, you can rupture the tendon. If you've been treating it as TMS and it's been getting worse, that's to be respected. No one on this forum can legitimately assure you you can't hurt yourself by running on it (I'm assuming you're a runner?) |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 20:19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by art
Busted, I'll venture this one more time then shut up. This can be an actual injury. At a certain point if it gets bad enough, you can rupture the tendon. If you've been treating it as TMS and it's been getting worse, that's to be respected. No one on this forum can legitimately assure you you can't hurt yourself by running on it (I'm assuming you're a runner?)
Wrldtrv said his foot pain changed locations. My thought is if it is real injury it wouldn't change location would it? If you broke a bone or busted your tendon, the pain would stay where the injury is right? |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 20:53:42
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| Art, I am not a runner. I've done nothing to cause pain to my foot other than walk on it normally. My pain has not moved around though, it has been in my right heel for the past year (I just looked at my calendar and realized this has been going on for a year now). It has gotten worse over the past month or so, where I can barely walk when I get out of bed in the morning. But I've just been doing TMS work and realized I've had a lot going on emotionally lately that I've been pushing aside and not dealing with. So it makes sense that my foot is hurting more. But it's also very frustrating to me that this has been a continuing problem for the past year and that I cannot seem to shake it. This is coming from someone who is constantly preaching to her friends that they need to read Sarno's books when they complain about ortopedic problems. I am a total believer in Sarno, and in TMS and yet I have not been able to "cure" myself of this foot pain in a year :( I do have to say, it took a long time for me to "cure" myself of my back pain though too. It's been several years now, and every once in a while I will experience some stiffness. But I was in constant pain back then and it is all gone now. I was not one of the people who just read the book and was instanly cured. I had to work at it. So I think I just need to put more time in to this, instead of just ignoring it as I have been. I've been trying to avoid thinking of the things that are bothering me, but I guess it's time to face it. |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 20:55:41
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| Just want to add, that talking about it with other people who understand really helps and gets me thinking. So thanks to everyone for your support! |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 21:40:18
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YES! Your foot pain, which is commonly diagnosed as PF, is TMS, plain and simple. As long as you harbor any doubt about this, the cycle will continue. How can there be a physical/structural problem? You wrote that you ran a marathon without pain, then pain returned with absolutely no precipitant! The advice I am sure I gave is the same:
Lisa and Art. The above is the direct quote from Dr Sopher. He may have made his judgment based on the circumstances I revealed, eg, no problem running the marathon,the inconsistency, that's true, but I believe in his book, "To Be or Not To Be Pain Free" he pretty much puts pf in the tms camp without reservation.
Art, I can certainly understand the reluctance to accept a tms dx when the symptoms seem so physical. This is ALWAYS my dilemma. By the way, I don't think you can rupture your tendon from bad pf because they are two separate tissues. The fascia is merely connective tissue like the kind you pull off a piece of chicken, and doesn't support more than 10% of the weight; the arch supports the rest. |
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AnnieA
13 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 22:51:42
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| I had pf. It went away and then I got RSI. Sounds sort of TMSy doesn't it? |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:41:03
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"The fascia is merely connective tissue like the kind you pull off a piece of chicken, and doesn't support more than 10% of the weight; the arch supports the rest."
Hey wrld....
Any ligament can be ruptured. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. As I've said, I've treated most episodes of pf as TMS, with the exception of the one that had me so crippled I could barely walk. It took months to heal. You're espousing an extreme view that would be analogous to asserting that since acid reflux is often psychosomatic it then follows that is always must be. Human tissue can sustain small tears leading to inflammation. This can lead to partial or even full tears if not treated properly. If I were self treating something for 9 months and not only was it not getting better, but it was getting worse, I'd stop and reconsider if I might be doing something wrong.
Of course just one man's minority opinion. But that's what makes a discussion!
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 09:32:35
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When I was a child I had heel pain.
It lasted a good year. It hurt more in the morning, but decreased during the day, when I was busy with school and things. In the morning we have split seconds to anticipate pain, and many of us do. Anxiety does not have to "know" what the problem is, because anxiety effects the same muscles and organs, always.
My heel "spur" eventually went away. Just wasn't there. A year or so later the front of my foot hurt, like an iron sheet had come down on it and broken my foot at the toe line. It was a deep, aching pain. It eventually went away.
Then as an adult I got plantar fasicitis, which I thought was due to bad running shoes. It eventually went away.
I think all three times the foot problems went away because I thought they would and kept busy with life. This was way before I know I had anxiety.
Eventually the problems escalated. Had I only known how I was successful with my foot (feet) I could have saved a lot of further fear and more anxiety and lots of doctor bills.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 04/16/2012 09:35:33 |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 09:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
As long as you harbor any doubt about this, the cycle will continue.
From Dr. John Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
Chapter Ten: "A Family Doctor's Experience With Mindbody Medicine"
by Marc Sopher, M.D.
Page 350:
"RESUME ACTIVITY
You are not really well until you are back doing the activities you formerly enjoyed. While you may have to start slowly (it is still necessary to follow appropriate guidelines for exercise training), you should be able to do whatever you want. We are capable of far more than we have been told. I think very few of us approach our potential because we have been misinformed about the limits of our bodies. I have patients in their sixties, seventies, and eighties running marathons, bicycling across the country, climbing mountains, and participating in other strenuous activities. They are not supermen and superwomen; they are simply folks who have taken good care of themselves and refuse to believe that they are fragile."
Dr. Sopher's web site is: www.themindbodysyndrome.com
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:23:30
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Art, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. Technically, fascia is a ligament because it connects bone to bone. Tendon is not ligament because it connects muscle to bone. Neither of us are docs, but I am trying to imagine how tearing mere fascia might rupture the underlying ligaments and tendons, unless the loss of the 10% support the fascia provides put added burden on it. Remember, the fascia is like a sheet of coating material under the skin that wraps around and adds a bit of support to everything else. If there's a med person on here, maybe they can set us straight.
Lisa, your symptoms sound much more consistent than mine. As I told Dr Sopher, I ran a marathon with no problem and that's part of the reason he told me I had tms. Also, my symptoms vary from day to day. You've never seen a podiatrist for your problem. It wouldn't hurt to at least do that. Maybe wearing some supportive inserts for awhile would help, and then gradually transitioning to flat, non-supportive shoes to strengthen the feet.
The great mystery about pf is that it has become the common cold of injuries. Why? And why is the solution always so hit or miss? Everybody seems to have their opinons about it, but no good solutions. Orthotics. Nightsplints. Heel Cups. Ice it. Massage it. Wear this insert or that insert. Stop running. Cortisone injections. Ibuprofen. Extracorporeal Shock Therapy. On and on.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 11:02:33
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Hey Wrld.
Again, so there's no misunderstanding, I agree pf is a prime TMS
symptom. I've no doubt that for the majority of sufferers, perhaps the vast majority, orthotics and all the rest of the gizmos are a waste of money.
I can readily see how and why Sopher diagnosed (if you can use that word without an actual examination) TMS in your case. But all this "absolute certainty" or whatever the phrase he used is disturbing to me. One of these days I'm going to do a post on hurting myself (and I have several times) by wrongly assuming
TMS.
Not everything is TMS. Not every ending is a happy one. We TMS sufferers do not live in some magic impenetrable bubble in which actual injuries can't ever occur.. |
Edited by - art on 04/16/2012 11:05:00 |
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happystar
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 18:27:59
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Hello everyone
I was diagnosed with Plantar fascitis about 1 month and a half ago. The dr. gave me some antinflamatory medicine and told me to use frozen water bottles and roll my feet on them. It's better now but it is not completely gone. He wanted to give me a cortisone shot on my feet and I refused.
My pain starts as soon as I open my eyes, even before I put my feet on the floor!!! and gets better when I get start walking. So I feel that all my pains and aches are due to TMS. Doc also said I have neuropathy and wanted to give me Lyrica which I refused. I am being treated for anxiety, so I think anxiety is what is causing all of my symptoms, and anxiety is a TMS equivalent. 2011 was a horrible year with lots of stresses for me - mainly medical scares. I feel my body just said enough is enough. And now I have these things I have to resolve. I am slowly getting better and will continue to do the work. I have faith that I will be back to my old happy self.
Peace and light to all! |
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CaliBack
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 19:09:01
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Hi,
I also had this at one point. It was incredibly painful and weird as I was not overusing it in any way. It also went away when I started a new relationship, so I thought immediately it was emotional in origin.
I think we have to be 100% clear that TMS induced pain is *real*. And the changes in muscle or fascia are physically real and often the most painful things we can experience. For example, I have crashed my bicycle and broken bones and NONE of these big trauma injuries were remotely as painful as low back pain, pf, or my crazy psoas injury which crippled me for two years.
What seems to be key to TMS is the non-seriousness of the physical "change" contrasted with the level of pain. My back, for example, is more or less totally unremarkable on MRI (even though I did injure it in a fall.) But the pain is beyond anything I've ever experienced. It is a terrifying pain that cuts right to my emotional core. It worries me, it alters my behavior, it makes me crazy.
And yet at some level, I am realizing it is a TMS thing. Yes, the muscles are tight, they limit my motion, they freak out and hurt. But NO, there is nothing seriously wrong with my back. There just is not.
I am left with the conclusion that something in the mindbody is making this happen and it is meant to send me a message of some sort.
I am listening. I am starting to get angry. I am also realizing how terrified I am deep down...
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 19:37:51
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Caliback, you are absolutely right. If the pain and other symptoms didn't seem VERY real, it wouldn't be a very effective tms distractor.
My chronic pf is on the right foot, but randomly my left foot will also flare up for an hour or a day or two and then disappear for weeks or months. Of course, if there were a tissue tear, a real injury, it wouldn't come and go so quickly. I realized it probably strikes this normally fine left foot because it (the brain) remembers that's where I had very bad pf 7 years ago! In fact, I often have tms going back to the "hits from the past" because they were so effective then. |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 20:23:46
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| Anything that requires rolling your feet on frozen water bottles just seems ridiculous to me. It reminds me of all of the physical therapy I had for my back and hip, which did absolutely nothing. When I told my primary care physician about my foot pain during my yearly checkup (I figured I might as well mention it even though I'm convinced it's TMS) he told me to go out and buy a very expensive pair of clogs and to never walk around barefoot. I just rolled my eyes at this. All I could think of is Sarno saying "man has walked around barefoot for years without any problems, and he didn't have to buy $100 clogs!" All of this nonsense just makes me believe more and more that it is TMS. |
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This heel pain is killing me!
